Magnus The Blue

Yup, sounds like he lucked out with slayer of kings. Congratulations on the results HobbyKiller, what list did you run?

Unfortunately true. The battalion calls for great bray shamman, not bold, so refers to the warscroll name, not any keywords. 😭

Only if they are generated from a spell or attack, the mortal wounds caused by the chariots are neither, so don't produce depravity.

Yeah, I must say the more I use my Exaulted Chariot Bladebringer, the more I want to use 2. The damage output is great, especially if you manage to charge multiple units, know one likes 4d3 mortal wounds before you even start attacking. Just a shame you don't get depravity from the mortal wounds. On an unrelated note, has anyone tried out the new warcry furies yet in their Slaanesh list? Sure they increase drop count, but 12" flighing move with retreat instead of fighting feels strong in a army that can had out always strikes last. First though is a screen for a Keeper, if anything scary charges just locus it and retreat over it's head with the Furies, who can now have fun in the enemies back lines.

Yeah, typically I'll only use the Sword of Judgement as a 3rd artefact in 2 battalion list , on top of a Miasmic Blade on a Keeper and Rod of Misrule. Hysterial frenzy is often more of a deterrent than a offensive weapon. If keeping your epitome close to your keeper means it doesn't get bogged down in hordes, super. But generally I agree with what your saying, it's far from an auto-take but does give you a whole new bag of tricks. Not using one at the moment for many of the reasons you mention.

For me, Horrible fascination is just an added extra (as is the 2+ moral wound save). The speed, offensive output and most importantly two spells/disspells with rerolls are what makes it good. Hysterical frenzy is probably our best anti horde tool and Epitome is the best caster we have for it (unless your allying in Fateweaver). Similarly if your using any big bang Endless spells (Cogs anyone), Epitome is the best model to try and cast it. Also, the combination of Epitome and Enraptress is the single most effective way to shutdown wizards. Them rerolling successful casts and you rerolling unbinds means they have 4 chances to fail casting any given spell, even Nagash struggles. Also great monster/hero hunter with Sword of Judgement (on claws) and the Fane (2+ save Vs the mortal wound to boot): 9 attacks and rerolling what you want gives you 18 chances to roll 6s.

Personally I've found 2 is plenty and leaves room for more toys. With three you end up light on models (and wounds) and more at risk of getting your heros getting wiped out during a double turn. Even if you have more heros, less screens etc makes them vulnerable. We also have some great utility heroes like Enraptures and Epitome which I struggle to include with 3 Keepers. Also, I've found hordes to be the hardest armies to face and more keepers doesn't really help with that.

Herald spell (available on 4 different scrolls), Epitome spell, Syll (in a massive bubble) and the new generic command trait (if your Invaders you have more command points than you need most of the time).

Yeah, I tried out the pure offence pretenders build Keeper you mentioned and it does deal a lot of damage, but the problem is that it's investing too much in a single model and is of most benefit in games which your going to win anyway. If an opponent doesn't have the units/skill to screen, kill or otherwise deal with one keeper of Secrets, your going to win anyway. If they can deal with it, you're given up a lot to increase the damage output on a model that's not going to play a big part in the game. While the Keeper doesn't cost any more points you lose out of a lot by going pretenders instead of Invaders: 1) Glory Hog: I am convinced that this is hands down the best general trait in the game. 1-2 command points a round (works in both player's combat phases) is game changing in an army with access to an 'attack again' command trait. 2) Rod of Misrule: more command points and this time on one of the most efficient CP artefacts in the game. 3) 1-6 Depravity points a turn: the pretenders bonus depravity almost never produces anything, especially considering your general will wipe out most units on contact, invaders, on the other hand produce points almost every turn except the first. Over a 5 turn game, this really adds up. 4) Syll'Esske: Really only worth it if they are the general (for the command trait). 5) Defensive/Mobility Artefacts on your Keeper: Thermal Rider Cloak, Ignax Scales, and Aetherial Amulet all make your Keeper much harder to handle. 6) Supreme Sybarites: basically useless in pretenders meaning miss out on a good value battalion and you can't easily do a 2 drop army (except with Beasts). Sure you get the reroll 1s on big units, but re-rolling 1 to hit is easy to get in Slaanesh anyway so really not a big loss. Once you've burned 6 command points to attack twice with half your army, you never go back

With a few games with pure hedonites under my belt I've come to the conclusions that unless your running Beasts, invaders are simply the best host: Glory hog and Rod of misrule means your can spam Excess of Violence to your heart's content and still have command points for re-rolling charges and battleshock. Combined with a decent bonus depravity mechanic, I can't me taking Godseekers or Pretenders again in competitive games. On a related note, here's my current list: Keeper, General (Glory Hog), Thermarider Cloak, S.Hand and Song of Secretes Keeper, S.Hand and Progeny of Damnation Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot, Rod of Misrule and Hysterical Frenzy Infernal Enrapress Seeker Cavalcade with 3* 5 Helstriders with Claw-spears 2* 10 Seekers Soo fast and deadly, but it's major strength is it's so hard to charge with all the 6" pile in and buffs that work in both player's turns. I've not lost a game with it yet, although yet to face FEC or DoK, so we will see. Any thoughts for improvement?

She is amazing. The command ability is awesome, 2+ locus of diversion is great, build in healing with the Hand and solid magic. I'd say easily the best unit in the book (especially if your playing pure hedonites).

Ungor raiders are super, try max unit ambushing with a combat unit or two supporting. With rerolls on 1,2 and double hits on 6 you do a lot of damage and it's a right pain to get rid of.

Well, that was brutal. Ended up swapping the Aetherquarts broach for Thermalrider Cloak on a Keeper. Played against Nightnaught with a focus on using Cogs and teleport to alpha strike. Better part of Valor mission and we didn't roll use realm rules. I had less drops and opted to go second to get a chance at double turning to deal with his alpha strike. As it turns out, completely unnecessary, the side to side deployment meant I could cluster up quite densely while covering all three objectives, This combined with 6" pile in and Locus of diversion meant he couldn't isolate any part of my force and ended up fulling a keeper and almost all my non-heros into combat, it didn't end well for him. I'd wiped out his alpha strike force before turn one was over then just wandered over the board to get his objective holders. Lost 2 units of helstriders and didn't need to summon anything with the 20+ points I got from killing his characters.

Got my first pure Hedonites 2k game tomorrow. Up until now I've had a mixed list with Beasts, using Pretenders for a God mode Keeper (Silverslash, Strongest Alone and Hunter of Godbeasts) which has been doing well but I want to got for something more subtle this time. Here is the list I'm thinking about, Invaders host: Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous hand, Progeny of Damnation) Keeper of Secrets (Sinistrous hand, Song of Secrets) Blade-bringer of Exalted Chariot (Hysterical Frenzy, Rod of Misrule) Infernal Enrapturess (Aetherquarts Broach, General: Glory Hog) Seeker Calvalcade Battalion 5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon) 5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon) 5 Helstriders with Spear-claws (Icon) 10 Seekers (Icon + Banner) 10 Seekers (Icon + Banner) 2k on the nose. Should be command point rich, so have only included 1 general to avoid getting them locked down. Seekers will act as an Alpha Strike and/or clear chaff. Helstrider will focus on objectives while the Keepers and Chariot will hunt down multi-wound units to get some depravity up quickly. It's low model so might struggle wit board control if I don't get summoning quickly, but with Enratress, Invaders bonus depratity and two keepers hitting turn 2 at the latest that shouldn't be an issue. Any thought on tweaks/improvements?

We actually have much better options than most for dealing with Slaanesh. The key is hordes and decent shooting. They can't do much against large units of Bestigors, Ungors and Ungor Raiders. They also often struggle for board control early on (unless they are also using beasts), which we excel at. No a silver bullet, but since we've got a lot of 1 wound options, we can definitely minimise their summoning with clever list design. Deprived Drove Slaanesh is a different matter as they have access to our best horde units and see to be less dependant on summoning.

In my opinion your missing: -Dragon Ogors: tough, fast and decent damage output. 140 points for 15 wounds and 4+ save is great. -Centigors: crazy fast, cheap and tough. So good to holding and stealing objectives. Neither a impressive in terms of damage output but both are great for winning and holding objectives.

Similarly I use magnets on bases, but then just have an Ikea breakfast tray with flexible ferrous sheet to make them stick. perfect size for 2k points and has legs so can sit over the table if you short for space. Never have to pack up models, just pop the tray in the car and go. Obviously not a solution for public transport 😉, but cheap and minimal hastle.

This got me thinking, so I did the maths on those 40 Ungor units, dam they are scary. Hard to kill: 200 points, 40 wounds and 5+ save in combat. Fast: Run and change, +1" run, +3" move from Shaman, reroll charge if in 12" of a hero with an artefact, max 27" threat range, before Cogs and Godseekers. Hard hitting: On average 40 (with blades) will do over 18 wounds to a 5+ save unit. Assumes all of them are fighting which isn't very likely but with small bases and 4" pile in you should get lots of them in most of the time. Great at holding objectives: How many models!! Is I had the time and inclination to paint them, 200 Slaanesh Ungor look like an amazing base to an army, depravity be dammed (1250 points including a Shaman and Battalion).

Personally I like the way depravity makes you focus on Heros, feels right for Slaanesh and makes list building a very different beast than in other alliances. What I don't like is how much it changes how good our army is depending on the opponent. Armies with lots of multi-wound models just get blown away while horde armies are usually a real uphill battle. But I suppose balancing this out is the art of making a good slaanesh army. Spend 1200+ points on heros and your always going to struggle with 200 clan rats/ungor/Gobbos, but not enough and you lose out on one of our strongest abilities. The main problem right now is that the Beasts battalion means you can get the best of both words by getting some relatively cheap horde units (Ungor and Bestigor) and back them up with out strong hero choices (thanks to depravity): compounded by the fact exploding sixes combine soooo well with those horde units. I don't think anyone wants to play against 3 Keepers backed up by 120 Ungor.

I think they are now just a good unit but no longer overpowered. Bulls, yes a bit too expensive. But Dragon Ogors! They are at worse a really solid option, 140 points for 15 4+ wounds, reasonably fast with Alligence ability and decent damage output. Their main disadvantage is the large base size, but that's rarely a major problem unless your running lots of them. Yes, BoC tend to be all about board control, screening and playing the mission rather than just smashing face. We have a wide range of good units (Ungor, Raiders, Bestigor, Centigor, Enlightened on Disks and Dragon Ogors), but no obscenely good ones. The big advantage of playing Beasts is there are a tonne of possible build which are competitive: horde, shooting, elite, mixed etc. and on top of that the God battalions mean you can easily play with different alliances with the same models, and all except Tzeentch are solid options. I think our main down side is lack of good heros, sure you have a few options and some are very useful but your never going to dominate magic or have a combat monster general who'll cleave through opponents armies.

I assume the entrappress is mainly there as a hard counter to magic heavy lists. So many casters in the current meta and Enraptress + Epitome means 4 chances to stop key casts.

Won't make you many friends but should be very effective, most of the time. The problem is going to be when you face a horde army and produce very few summoning points you'll round out of models very quickly. Makes it all a bit rock,paper, scissors. I think most people look to Beasts since so many Slaanesh options are just bad value for points (almost all chariots, fiends, daemonettes) , so beast give you some more options, which generally do well with the exploding 6s of Slaanesh. To fine tune I'd drop the Chaos Warriors and The Masque to get 15 more Hellstriders (one unit of 10 to keep drops down). Will give you the option of charging in your battle line to break through screens without exposing your characters. Otherwise well screened armies will take you apart piecemeal.

Depending on what you mean by mortal wound flamers (not sure why you would ignore them) you've missed some of the best ones: 1. Guant Summoner (spell) 2. Hell Pit Abomination 3. Hysterical Frenzy (Slaanesh Spell) I'm sure there are plenty more, but I definitely think most factors should have at least a soft counter to hordes (currently maybe 1/4 do).

I disagree with this point, the centre or the base or any part of the base, are just as simple (and elegant). No that I'm saying your wrong, I just don't think there is a strong argument for either over the other.

Possible, yes. Good, No. The big problem is that the Lord of Change's main damage output is spells and in particular it's signature spell. With 3 of them they will struggle to have worth while things to cast. You'll get lots of summoning points but with the offensive ability of a brimestone horror that's feeling under the weather and very little screening, you'll really struggle to win games.