Scurvydog

Been playing stomper tribe mostly, but with the new reinforcement rules and awesome new command abilities, it feels this options goes down in power a bit, also the cestus reroll save artifact, while still good, can effectively be replaced by the amulet of destiny for a 5+ ward. Looking at endless spells that seems to be something that can really mess up gargants, so this makes me think of a Taker Tribe with the +1 artifact trait, so you can have a Kraken Eater with Glowy Lantern and then possibly a Gatebreaker or Stomper with the 5+ ward taking point. Getting to actually cast a spell can be a pickle, but if it works out, mystic shield or flaming weapons can be right dangerous on a mega, however we know how that works out against any opponent with + to cast or unbind, however here I think it is very important have as many chances to unbind endless spells as possible. Soulsnare shackles can shut down charges in a 15" bubble somewhere and many other spells can get to do a lot of damage and muck up the board. With a glowy lantern you get the ability to unbind and dispell respectively and then the heroic action in a pinch, however with 3 megas you will most likely want to rotate finest hour quite a bit at critical moments, so having that extra unbind or dispel can be all important I think.

It is weird that he is under Warclans. Gotrek also has the note of how he allies into other armies like both him and KRagnos had, however nothing like that is listed under Warclans

Oh great, they made total commitment again, yay...

Sons are all in all so much stronger this edition, so many buffs and abilities they got access to now

you buy them in a mob of 3 for a 20 pts discount. No need to count for more battleline as all units are now battleline

Megas are battleline, so 4 mega lists are now possible!

Many armies wont get that much smaller with battalions no longer eating up any points though. It was not that rare to have 200ish points dedicated to a battalion and/or +1 CP, with these point costs gone, the army sizes probably wont change all that much all in all.

I am not sure how much I would trust this, the 2 warchanter entries alone make this just about useless. IF this is true, then good job for GW to make coherency a pain for ardboyz and then just about when brutes could shine, boom almost 40% increase in pts... Unless they get new warscrolls of course in a super soon book, then that could explain it. Otherwise who would think a 40% increase to brutes was a proper change? Who even complained about Brutes? This seems like trolling.

My wallet says yes But my brain says no GHB leaks are still a noshow Have gargants gone up? Have stardrakes gone down? This lack of information gives me a consumer-frown Are liberators still cheap? Will Mawkrushas break the bank Are Fomoroid Crushers the new discount battle tanks?

I would be very surprised if we do not see some teases soon. They already did show us units not in the dominion box and surely they will be part of a new tome. I'd expect stormcast and warclans to get releases and books within a month of the dominion release to make use of some of the 3.0 hype, waiting months would be very silly unless something pratical is preventing them for the followup.

Yes this is a big deal to Ironjawz, only 1 mighty destroyers per turn is a real kick in the teef. FeC will also feel the sting badly, only ever being able to fight twice with 1 unit per turn, that will severely limit their alpha potential. And obviously bonereapers are just out in the cold with this entire system, getting all the drawbacks and none of the benefits.

Interesting enough you can dispell in the opponents hero phase instead of using an unbind (or prayer for a priest), so you could use an unbind attempt after it triggers the effect so it is available to cast in your next hero phase.

You can stack as many modifiers you want, you are not "not allowed" to do it, a saving throw can just not end up being better than a total of +1 in the end. So if you get those guys with 5+ saves, but +1 from shields, they can not get better saves than a 4+ at any point, however if hit by Liberators with some rend 1 weapons, they could still use the all out of defence,, it just wont do anything against the attacks from the 0 rend weapons, but it will even out with the rend attacks, so you still end up with the 4+ save against those.

Also on topic here is that Archaon in at least Khorne will be gutted. We saw a lot of Khorne Archaon lists due to the fight twice and pile in 6" combo possible there. This combo will no longer be possible, as they both are issued in the combat phase. This means if he wants to fight twice with the reapers of vengeance CA, then he needs to charge as normal. This then also gives him problems with monsters that might prevent him from fighting twice with Roar on a 3+ roll. Combine this with his rumored point increase to around 950 pts, then I would expect these Archaon lists to be pretty much dead and buried for competitive play. Tzeentch Archaon relies less on stacking CA's, but if there are no FAQ or exception, this is of course all not legal to do anyway. End result is that it will either not be legal for matched play and if it is, especially the Khorne list will be gutted.

In most cases you will often get hit by some kind of rend, you can only end up with +1 to your save for the modified roll, but if you get hit with rend 1, using the +1 sv CA will still help with that and you get a 5+ save where you normally would have had a 6+ due to the rend. Of course things like bucklers adding +1 save effects does put some limits up instead of outright changing the save value of a warscroll, so it prevents stacking up mystic shied and all out defence too much, but it can still be worthwhile if you are facing attacks with rend 1 or more. If anything the far easier access to +1 save, also from mystic shield, can make it harder to hit home with even high rend units.

So in an extreme scenario unit A has exploding hits AND mw on 6s- Unit B reflects a mw when hit on a 6, but also has a spell that forces rerolls of 6s to hit against them. Unit A has the turn and rolls 10 dice with 2 6s. They then have to choose if those are explodes or MW. Then Unit B needs to choose if those 6s need to be rerolled, or if they should reflect 1 MW. Right? If It is the player of Unit B that has the turn, yet Unit A attacks first, it is then the controller of Unit B that decides first if they wish to trigger rerolls or reflects. Lets say they choose rerolls and Unit A ends up having 1 roll of a 6 after that, they then choose if that 6 is going to be an explode or mw correct?

That is what the RAW says at least, might be some FAQ to clear it up later. From the core rules: 25.1 FACTION Pitched battle profiles are organised into tables, each of which contains the Pitched Battle profiles for one faction (see 1.1). 27.0 ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES If all of the units in your army are from a single faction, then you can use that faction’s allegiance abilities. Sidebar: An army that is made up of two or more factions (not including allies) cannot use allegiance abilities, unless noted otherwise The kicker is the "unless noted otherwise", but still, if Archaon is only present on the S2D table, that is his faction and only possible source of allegiance abilities. They might do an FAQ or they might include some units on multiple tables, I do not have the GHB2021 to know that unfortunately, but going by this information alone, all the mark of chaos soups are probably gone.

RAW states that armies are now chosen based on their faction table in the generals handbook stated 25.1 and 27.0, you will not get allegiance abilities if you are using more than 1 faction (excluding allies). This effectively nukes all the chaos lists using STD out of orbit. Perhaps we will see Archaon added to the table for all the chaos books, but if not those Tzeentch and Khorne Archaon lists are deleted overnight from matched play. STD; The above does not hurt the STD allegiance itself, but hurts anything you might want to use the models for. The new edition also hurts STD quite a bit, as their most viable build right now is based around the plaguetouched battalion, also Varanguard units can only go to 6 and not 9 as seen a lot in KotET lists. Warshrines will be a bit better, several solid commands will also be good with more CP to go around overall, the generic artifacts help them, as those in the book are just awful. A lot of cheap (right now) monsters might be better, but might also just be costed higher into uselessness again. Seraphon: Odd spot really, all the changes to endless spells will take away one of their main tricks. Reinforcement rules might just ruin Saurus entirely for those few that played them and might also cap out skinks at 30 instead of 40 to make their buffs less efficient. Thinking Thunderlizards will come out best of them all, the big dinos got a lot more presence and objective game going on now. OBR: Ugh needs a lot of FAQ to be workable. No ability to repeat commands will kill their mobility and severely limit their offensive options as well, if their special RDP does not get some kind of exemption in a FAQ. Catapults will also be worse of, as their 0 rend will be mitigated a lot more with all out defense and mystic shield both providing +1 save, making it much less likely to do any damage at all, forget about hurting 4+/3+ save units at all. Stormcast: Hard to say, they will most likely get a new tome anyway, so hardly matters to speculate much. At least they can't really get hurt by the new edition, as most things were terrible, their 40 battalions were all bad and the entire army relied mostly on a few gimmicky lists. Ironjawz: Might also get updated in a new warclans book soon, but in their current state they get hurt pretty bad, as their best trick mighty destroyers is now limited to 1 use, this will severely limit their available tactics. Ardboyz also do not like the new coherency rules at all. More MSU might help their smashing and bashing but this goes both ways. Mawkrushas might also get even more dangerous, however this might not make up for the limitation of only 1 mighty destroyers per turn. Sons of Behemat: Mostly great here, they are all monsters and get access to rampages, even though you cant use the same multiple times. Their heroes are also big monsters, so things like titanic duel or finest hour will be incredibly dangerous on them, can even combo that with a command, so a gatebreaker could go in early and pop it all sitting at a 2+ save, +1 hit and +1 wound against a monster, that is scary. New generic artifacts are nice, especially the 5+ Ward is good on a 35 wound mega gargant. Commands are very efficient on their units and they do not suffer from coherency rules or reinforcement at all. That objective capping takes place during deployment also helps them bust out of the gate turn 1 if they wish. The army can still get destroyed if GW decides to increase their points and basically make it impossible to make a working army though, there is no wiggle room for them as is...

On the contrary the new stuff steps right in the toes of what is already there. There are already 3 variants of paladins, the new ones are simply improved paladins, they are not fitting a different role at all. Same for vindictors, they are clearly the new and improved liberators. The poor libs might still just be used if they are a bit cheaper as is their lot in life it seems, but they only differentiate themselves by just being the worst version of the basically the same thing. No this is clearly warrior chamber 2.0, it might not be a bad thing, but I doubt we will see any new stormcast again in the old style, they are just waiting to be replaced entirely down the line.

I don't think they will, this system was made to level the playing field in matched play. All the current battalions are useless for their points as all artifact/CP does no longer apply anyway for any mode of play. I can't see them just making new warscroll battalions suddenly, especially as the core rules say they are not allowed in matched play. I could see some armies getting synergies with certain core battalions or special enhancements etc.

Yea I feel the same, deciding first turn is nice and all, but if the opponent goes for this as well, you could just lose the roll and have nothing to show for it. Instead ignoring that entirely you could go for enhancements and free commands, while also retaining the benefit of counter deployment as the one drop battalion has to all be put on the table at once. I feel potentially an artifact, 2 free commands and complete counter deployment is a fair trade of not choosing the first turn. Obviously SoB got a problem with all these battalions, with the only option of going for 1 drop + 1 mega for example (so 2 drops) or skip that and get the linebreaker for that 1 free command. If running 2 megas and 2x3 small gargants that is still just 4 drops. I think many armies will either go for the 1 drop or maximise everything else, so being 2 drop or 4 drop seems to make little difference and might as well grab that free command. Stomper tribe is a bit in an odd spot. That is my favourite tribe and have done well at a couple of tournaments with it. Having more command points in general will of course benefit Stompers and is now also the only way to get 2 units of gargants auto run 6 for example or reroll charges. I prefer going with a gatebreaker as well, so that guy will be important for all the generic commands such as all out attack and defence. Finest hour + all out of defence will be nasty on a warstomper with rerolling saves from the cestus, although the generic 5+ ward is also looking hot for all mega gargants and will never be a bad choice. With all the new coherency rules, better commands but more focus on efficient use of them, it seems to me the Sons are in a good spot. Modifiers to hit being capped at -1 and +1 is only good, as anyone fighting lumineth or Tzeentch etc with army wide easy access to several sources of -hit in 2nd edition, can attest to. The monster rampage is of course good and the heroic actions will also be very efficient and scary on mega gargants, Mega gargants having their finest hour is pretty much the worst hour for everyone else. A gatebreaker using finest hour and all out attack to get a 3+/2+ profile and 3+ save is just so efficient for gargants. I guess that is the major point here, all the new stuff is just really efficient on gargants, every CP spent and every buff or ability will be a big deal, literally

*Looks at painted Dracoths, Stardrake and Judicators* I had not imagined you guys would be sent to squat heaven so soon... Stormcast really do not need more dudes with bows or crossbows, the current ones simply need good rules... We got judicators with 2 different options, bows and crossbows + special versions. We got Castigators with crossbows. Raptors with Sniper crossbows and dakka crossbows. Do we really need another bunch of guys with bows? jeez GW, update some saurus warriors instead

It is just a matter of wound allocation, many people do this all wrong, also most youtubers waste a lot of time removing models constantly in the middle of a combat activation, which makes the entire thing more complicated than it needs to be. For example Yndrasta takes 10 damage total that goes through her normal armor save. You then begin allocating wound. On a 1-2 the wound is still allocated to Yndrasta and she can use her 4+ ward to negate it. On a 3-4 it is allocated to the Praetors with no way of saving it further and on a 5-6 the wound is simply ignored. you can not simply give the Praetors a 5+ ward, that is not the same, as this triggers only when wounds are transferred to them, if you attack them directly they get no ward save. There is no saving roll taking place for the Praetors with the bodyguard rule. Alternatively they could have worded it something like a 3+ allocates a wound to the Praetors instead of the hero and if that happens they get a 4+ ward. That would still require 1 more dice roll to achieve the same thing. All in all it should be pretty clear how this works, however it seems to come from skimming over the basics, which especially the youtube wargamers are guilty of, even though I do enjoy the content mostly.

That is true for narrative and open. Stealing the initiative is part of the matched play rules not part of the free core rules. "Do not roll off to determine who has the priority in the first battle round. Instead, the player who finished deploying their army first has the priority in the first battle round" Priority meaning the choice of going first or second.

It is really not all that complicated. Mostly these enhancement rules are just a rewrite of how things are now, but with more options down the road to tweak specific things. You get 1 command trait for the general, cant choose more, even if you get a free enhancement battalion. All wizards know 1 spell in a lore available to them as before, however now you could use a bonus battalion enhancement to make that 2 spells from a known lore. 1 Prayer, 1 artifacts etc etc. Triumps also state that your army still needs to be less points than the opponents to be used, no matter how many you have. Anything that might divert too much from this intention will for sure get FAQd. New tomes will most likely interact with this system in a more specific manner. This is interesting and creates more choice. Nearly anyone could chose to go 1 drop, if both players do it is down to the roll of for deployment first, however now you need to place down ALL of the 1 drop at once no matter what, so if you go 1 drop and want to choose, your opponent can counter deploy to your entire army. If the opponent chose to not go 1 drop but pick and choose other battalions, they could get effectively 2 free command usages and 1 enhancement for example, while also being able to counter deploy to your entire 1 drop army. Choosing who goes first might be good, but the other player might really get a leg up if they build around not having first turn as well, so a powerful choice in the army building phase.