AaronWilson

Yes Curzex As long as it doesn't state "Only a Stormcast Eternal Wizard can cast this spell" etc.

Really sad I can't make this as it's the same weekend as the World Team Championship for Guildball, will 100% make the next one

It feels very light on the ground at 1250 mainly due to the 6 Skyfires. I'm off the personal view Tzaangors are very much a waste at a unit of 10, i wouldn't take them at all at 10. Pesonally at 1250 I'd drop the Skyfires, and go for a unit of 20 Tzaangors & add the Gaunt Summoner which gets you to 1040. At that point you could add another 10 gors to make them 30, leaving you 90 points. You could go for a Balewind, or the Geminids and save the 50 for a command point, or go for the spell portal (which is very very good) and add something like the Soulbind shackles for the last 20.

So I played a 1k point game last night against my friend which resulted in a bit of the feel bads. I took Gaunt Summoner Magister 20 Tzaangors 10 Pink Horros 10 Acolytes Geminids He took Knight of Shrouds Lantern hero that can return d6 models via a spell 40 Chainrasp 6 Spirit hosts 8 Banshee guys with scythes 4 Reapers We rolled for Places of Arcane power, he had 1 more drop then me so I got to decide first, I put pink bottom left, GS just behind them, Tzaangors centre middle, acolytes upper right with Masgister. Opponent dropped spirit hosts uppet left, rasps centre with lantern dude & knight, scythes dude very top right and the reapers went in the underworld.I gave him turn one as his army was quite slow and my deployment mitigated any good turn one pop ups via the underworld. Turn one he cast mystic shield on rasps, he popped shrouds CA (he was aware how fast I could propel my Zaangors with CA and I think he was expecting me to launch them into him). Everything ran, bar the scythe guys in the top right forwards. My turn one I started with Gaunt Summoner using Arcane Sacrifice on Horrors. He then cast a bolt into the hosts using 4,4 on my DD which killed a host. Magister cast glimpse, which got me a 6. I then used a 6&4 to cast Inferno flames, oppenent decided he had to try and stop it and failed, i think I killed 13 rasps. Horrors put up geminids, capping spirit hosts & rasps. Did 1 MW to hosts because of death saves but 5 more rasps. Movement I just waddled my Tzaangor up in the middle, leaving the rasps a 10" charge, acolytes move up on the right and horrors advanced bottom left onto the bottom objective. Shooting I killed 1 scythe guy with acolytes, magister missed, battleshock I think killed 7-8 more rasps. Ending battle round 1 on 5 fate points & 1 CP. I won the roll off, giving him first turn, as I wasn't threatened by any of his units and it would allow me to move the geminids. The geminids bounced over Rasps & Hosts again, dropping the hosts down to 4 models & killing 3 more rasps. Lantern guy failed his spell and then everything waddled up. The reapers came up within 9" of my Gaunt Summoner. Charge wise the spirit hosts got into my horrors & rasps rolled a 6,6 and landed in my Gors, I think I lost 3 gors (because of the double fight because of the roll of 10 or more from rasps), I left 5 rasps alive. The Spirit Hosts completely failed there roll. The reapers & banshee guys failed there charges needing 8&9" respectively. My turn 2 I cast bolt of change into the top right banshees, killing 1 and spawning a spawn. Horrors did arcane bolt into hosts, GS used Arcane Sacrifice on Gors, inferno flamed the rasps down to 2 and failed his Bolt of Tzeentch so leaving me on 8 points. Acolytes & Magister moved up top right, gors & horrors were in combat and GS moved centrally to the right to get away from reapers and make a good spawn point. End of movement I used 8 FP & 2 Blue horrors points to make 10 Blue Horrors. Shooting I killed 3 banshees with Acolytes & Magister, Horrors killed the 3rd spirit host. Combat I killed the rasps, failed a 4" charge twice with my acolytes, gors killed rasps and I ended on 3 CPs because horrors still held the bottom left objective. My opponent said he's happy to call it there, packed up quickly and really wasn't happy with how the game went. I felt super bad, I think I'll start leaving the Gaunt Summoner at home for more of the "casual" games I play locally.

Thinking about it more, I see where Josh is coming from though. I think the Fate Point 10 statement is there because our lowest cost summon is 10 and GW just made a booboo stating it was 5. The Blue/Brimstone Horror rules state that you can them instead of Fate points, which would override the core rules of needing 10 fate points, using them instead. I don't think it's the death, it 100% makes matchups harder but I think if you can pick at units outside the bubble use things like Gateway, Bolt, Inferno Flames, Firestorm that do enough wounds to to somewhat mitigate the D3- it's not the end of Tzeentch

My collection is fairly small compared to most but I'll join in Leaders 1 Lord of Change 1 Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch 1 The Blue Scribes 1 Herald of Tzeentch 1 Gaunt Summoner 2 Tzaangor Shaman 1 Magister 1 Ogroid Thaumaturge Units 40 Kairic Acolytes 30 Tzaangors 10 Pink Horrors 20 Blue Horrors 20 Brimstone Horrors 9 Tzaangor Skyfires 6 Tzaangor Enlightened 3 Screamers of Tzeentch 3 Flamers of Tzeentch 1 Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

Hey guys, I played a 1500 point game last night and thought I'd write a battle report, sorry if it's a long post but it seems relevant as I played against Lens of Refraction & Lord Arcanum (auto-unbind) & Comet. I took to the game - Lord of Change - 380 Trait - Magical Supremacy Lore of Change - Tzeentchs Firestorm Gaunt Summoner - 180 Artefact - Wellspring of Arcane Might Lore of Change - Bolt of Tzeentch Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Lore of Change - Unchecked Mutation The Blue Scribes - 140 Lore of Change - Unchecked Mutation Tzaangors (20) - 360 Acolytes (10) - 80 Acolytes (10) - 80 Umbrall Spell Portal - 60 Geminids - 40 My friend had taken - Volturnos General A Hero that returned 3 thralls per turn, unsure of name Artefact - Lens of Refraction Melee Thralls (30) Killy Eels (3) Killy Eels (3) Allied Lord Arcanumus 2 x SCE Ballista Comet We rolled for Focal points, the one with a central objective and 4 spread in a diamond like shape across the table. I had 1 less drop then him, so let him drop first. The Lords of Change 42" unbind pushed his Arcanum back. I deployed Acolytes bottom central, Tzaangors upper mid, Acolytes upper right and my Heroes in a campfire behind it. Oppenent did Arcanum and Ballista in top right and everything else central under the lens. I finished dropping first, after measuring things out I worked out I could get my opponents Arcanum & Ballista via portal shenanigans and be out of unbind range, so I took first turn. Turn one I kicked off with LoC CA, Blue Scribes put up Boon of Tzeentch, Shaman put up portal and then the fun started. LoC killed the incantor, and his Firestorm rolled well doing 5 MW to the ballista. The Gaunt put a Inferno Flames onto the thrall blob, killing 9 but only 7 due to lens, then finished off the ballista with the geminids. I moved up defensively, leaving Acolytes on 2 objectives and moving my 20 Tzaangors up that would leave my opponent 9" charge with eels & 10 with Vulturnos, I ended the turn on 6 fate points.. Turn one my opponent moved his thralls & eels up, the thralls covering the top centre and middle left objective as well as the centre one. Eel brigade came over top and opponent made 1 of 9" charges into my Gors, my gors back killed 2 Eels and left 1 Eel on 4. He killed 6, using a 1 on DD for Battleshock I lost 1 more. He scored 4 this turn, rolling for initiative I won. Turn 2 kicked off with my geminids bouncing back through the portal by my opponent, so I'd be forced to move off my portal. My Shaman tried to dispel them so I could put them out again but failed, hero phase LoC used his CA, Blue Scribes cast Boon, Gaunt Summoner kicked off with a Bolt into the Eel tying my Zaangors up, rolling a 1 to wound. He then cast Inferno Flames, killing 5 more Thralls (lens stopping 3). My Shaman used his potion and tried Boon of Mutation onto the eel, hoping to get a 3 for wounds but rolled 2 wounds. LoC then cast Gateway onto the eels that failed the charge, doing 7 MW and Firestorm fluffed with no 6s. That did end my hero phase on 12 fate points though, annoyingly I left a Eel on 1 wound my gors. My Acolytes stayed on the objectives and my heroes moved up, LoC went central & Gaunt, Shaman and Scribes went to the right but cautiously forward, end of my movement phase I summoned a Herald of Tzeentch. My turn 2 shooting between Acolytes, LoC & Herald I killed the Eel in combat with my gors, finished the last eeel that failed his charge and put 2 wounds on Vulturnos. I then used a 6,5 out of my DD to charge my gors into Vultrunos, I left him on 2 wounds. My acolytes scored me 2 more points, making it 4-4. Opponents turn 2 he conga lined his thralls up, Ballista tried to get a cheeky shot into my Shaman who was out of look out sir but missed. Thralls charged my gors (I think I had 6? left now). Vultrunos killed every Gor down to the last, I left a greatblade and used a 4 from my DD to make it hit ,rolled the wound and he failed his 4 + taking his last 2 wounds. Thralls then killed my last Gor and opponent scored 4 more, so 8-4. My opponent won this roll off and elected to take first & I bounced the geminids back through my portal. He moved back with his inured thralls as he charged into me, he would lose his 2 back objectives and I had lots of units (Shaman, Scribes, LoC) that could fly back onto them. He kept returning thralls each turn (also bar turn one he used CP to pass BS tests) so there was 22 back now. He ended his turn 3 scoring 4 more, so it was 12-4. My turn 3, my Herald dispelled my portal. LoC used CA, Scribes put up Boon, Shaman cast Portal for my Summoner and then I put a horredous amount of MW into the 22 thralls via LoC Gateway & Firestorm, & GS Inferno Flamers & Bolt. Even through lens I killed 15 models, ending my hero phase on 6 fate points. Movement I advanced my Shaman who rolled well enough to grab the back middle objective, shooting reduced the Thralls to 3 models and I ended scoring 4 points (3 for the top and bottom centre, 1 for my middle right) making it 12-8. We rolled for the initiative and I got this double turn, my opponent shook my hand at this point as it was very odds on he would be tabled. It was a really tight game, lots of measuring and lots of positioning. My ability to manipulate casting dice was crazy good (+1 to cast, can either re-roll both dice or just 1s) it meant I never failed a spell. It was my first time using a LoC and jeez, I think he's still worth the points. The Gateway did minimum 5 MW each time it cast, Firestorm was hit and miss but it has potential. His CA is amazing and 42" unbind paired with if you roll a 9 on the unbind to steal a spell forces your opponents wizards on the backfoot. First time using the spell portals and they're fantastic, it makes your turn one incredible and the ability to redeploy it due to the low dispel value needed is good. I was very scared about the lens but I was able to pick at units that had broken away from the bubble and then finally crush the unit close to it. Sorry for the long write up, thought folks might be interested

Yeah I feel a Stardrake is really the main offender here, that said small characters hiding behind things pushing that bubble as it's not wholly within will be just as annoying.

I certainly feel there's two ways to build Tzeentch right now - you can try and maxout the abuse of spell portal, cutting the tzaangors to 20 and skyfires to 6 or none and play a campfire around the portal or you can go opposite go 3-4 heroes, 30 gors, 9 skyfires no portal etc. Not sure what is going to come out on top going forward.

I quite like the list, though with the Ogroid changes personally I'd drop him into a Magister, using the 40 points to make your Palisade a Balewind & the Shackles the Geminids or just making the Ogroid a Gaunt Summoner.

This is a good but Lens of Refraction neuters nearly all of your offensive magic, so you're basically left with 9 skyfires as your only reliable damage output. 6 Nations happened this weekend and all the Tzeentch players found brutal losses against Lens of refraction builds.

So I think the lens of refraciton is going to be a massively popular pick at events (6" bubble, whenever a unit within 6" would take mortal wounds from a spell, they take D3 less) on a base like a Stardrake, it covers a massive amount. Maybe a list that doesn't rely on MW from spells might be needed going forward in the meta. Something like Gaunt Summoner - 180 Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Herald of Tzeench - 140 Blue Scribes - 140 Tzaangors (30) - 480 Acolytes - 80 Acolytes - 80 Skyfires (9) - 660 Geminids - 40 Could be worth looking into?

It's a exciting time for Tzeentch, I think with the loss of Changehost / Pink Horror chaff it really does open up lots of routes to take lists down which is really interesting or the faction.

Thanks mate, off I go to order it :)

But the Magister is so good! Uh cruel world, why is life so tough.

Can I grab soulwars as a hardcopy, if so where?

Yeah I'm tempted to drop my 20 Acolytes down to 10, make Magister a Curseling and bank a CP.

Sorry yeah I mistyped, currently the list has 0 spare points.

Well the Changeling can hang around and steal an opponents endless spell, which is pretty neat

Yup, sadly I'm probably going to be leaving a LoC out of events list. I can get double his casting value for less points, Infernal Gateway will be missed as it pours out of MW & his command ability is useful if you're running Tzeentch Deamon Wizards. Trying to work on a list that isn't just 60 Tzaangors for the Throne of Skulls in October right now. Current plan is - Gaunt Summoner - 180 Tzaangor Shaman - 180 Magister - 140 Blue Scribes - 140 Tzaangors (30) - 480 Pink Horrors (10) - 200 Acolytes (20) - 160 Tzaangor Skyfires (6) - 440 Geminids - 40 Balewind - 40 I'm fairly happy with the list, has a potential of 8 spells a turn with a healthy mortal wound output via Spells & Skyfires, obviously a lot of magic defence and has healthy normal damage through shooting via acolytes & horrors as well as Tzaangors & non MW skyfire shots. Really the three things I need to stress test with the list is - 1) Do I need a CP in the bank if I play against alpha heavy armies. If a list drops on me and explodes my Tzaangor blob to a point where Battleshock kills the rest, that would be a massive blow. Having a CP in the bank is really strong to be able to use inspiring presence on your opponents first turn. 2) Do I need Spell Portals? I'm not using a battalion, so I'm most likely not going to get to choose if I go first or not. If that's the case the spell portals would do a great job of maximising how nasty my turn 1 is. 3) Do I take a battalion? Probably not, there's not really a battalion I want to use right now in Tzeentch and I think the points are better spend on endless spells, Cps or having bodies on the table.

Bar the gaunt summoner I don't see where your damage is coming from? You might struggle against a lot of high armour saves / re-rollable armour saves (stardrake, fulminator blobs come to mind)

It's very, very light on the ground and you really don't have to a good way to screen from heavy alpha lists (like KO's). You have a super strong MW output that's for sure but your list is just very fragile. That said no one knows what the new meta is going to be like at the top level so it could be worth a try? It seems the list will also struggle with holding any objetives that force you to go into the middle of the table as the Horrors will just get roasted.