Ravinsild

Can the FEC Start Collecting kit make Vargheists and Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon?

Man I just get so nostalgic about Death... I want a little bit of everything you know. Collecting this army strangely takes me back to 2010... Wrath of the Lich King WoW expansion came out on my literal birthday and I stayed up allllllllllll night playing it. It just all takes me back to Warcraft 3, the Frozen Throne, The Plaguelands (diseased wolves remind me of Dire Wolves miniatures) the Vargheists remind me of Gargoyles, Skeletons, Ghouls and Zombies are all the same. Grave Guard remind me of certain enemies and somewhat Death Knights a little. I love the Wight King models. Black Knights are awesome and remind me a bit of the LotR kings and just Death Knights on their special class mounts. Zombie Dragons remind me of frost wyrms. Basically I want this to be my army: https://youtu.be/BCr7y4SLhck

Well what happened was I bought the battle force and it has her and 2 Morghasts and 10 grave guard and 20 skeletons so that’s whats in my collection atm. Not sure where to go from here. I could get a Start Collecting FEC for vamp lord on dragon and Vargheists.... otherwise.... idk.

So I really want to start a vampire themed army and I also like really aggressive armies (I play Ironjawz and Khorne) and I love melee. I don’t know what I’m doing and I’ve never played death before... so I’m just going to list my favorite real life models and can you guys tell me which of these would fit best in a list? I’ll rank from most favorite coolest looking to still awesome but mildly less cool looking but still cool looking. 1) Neferata 2) Morghasts 3) Terrorghiest 4) Zombie Dragon (including riders like Prince Vordhai or a vampire lord or whatever) 5) Black Knights 6) Wight King with Black Blade 7) Vargheists 8) Crypt Flayers 9) Vampire Lord on Nightmare Steed 10) Vampire Lord (First the one with the outstretched hand and cape, then the lady and the rest are a bit meh....) Then I like the idea of Blood Knights and I basically love anything Calvary but I don’t love Resin and they’re incredibly expensive points and literal money-wise.... but I love like Chaos Knights, Mighty Skullcrushers, Gore-Gruntas... I want an awesome Calvary unit. Out of all the battle line I like skeletons the most but I also don’t exactly want to buy 300.... I think there are much cooler looking models and I tend to prefer MSU playstyle myself. I’ve also seen Grave Guard absolutely destroy and they look alright. Just kind of cooler Skeletons. I think they’re sort of Death Knight looking which makes them cool. I also love the idea of a fear bomb list and if it’s possible to build and have a pretty good army I’m all ears and eyes. So that’s my list of things I think look super cool and wish I had some of... is there a workable army in there somewhere? It pains me to not use Neferata but if she’s just garbage on the table then I’ll still get her for my shelf and maybe sneak her into Games sometimes but she’s something of a gotta have for me same with Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (my #1 favorite model in their entire line out of literally all the models, and #2 being Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut she’s #3 out of the entire range including board games and other mainlines like 40k)

Well I tested out that all multi-wound list and I was not impressed with the results for a variety of reasons. Namely lack of blood tithe and priests whiffing due to lack of Gore Pilgrims support. Also im beginning to see what you mean by lack of mobility.... my entire Skulltake Battalion got blocked off by my Mighty Skullcrushers charges and didn’t even get into combat by the 3rd round... and the MSC just couldn’t deal with the 40 man saurus Warrior blob effectively. It was a giant tarpit on both sides that accomplished almost nothing and I lost the game horribly due to objectives. Even casual Seraphon lists are really tough....

I wouldn’t be able to play the shell I don’t have a WoK Bloodthirster yet and I have 0 Bloodletters. The only demon I own is an Insensate Rage BT and SKARBRAND.

It is only by questioning the meta that we came come to appreciate the meta.

All I’m seeing is git gud, only play Khorne and sell my other armies and ascend to 1st place in 15 years with enough experience to show the true power of Khorne.

I’m like the total opposite haha, of every Khorne player it seems. I’m super down to use Blood Tithe in creative ways and use (what I believe to be) the underutilized rewards to find some off meta value that can shake out a surprise tactic. I hate the daemons aesthetic except for Bloodthirsters so I only have Mortals period + SKARBRAND and an Insensate Rage Bloodthirster. I don’t play with summoning and I only run MSU because I prefer their mobility and ability to get places and reinforce, plus I like everyone or almost everyone actually getting to fight in combat (how many games have I tried the old 20 Reavers thing only for 10 of them to not even get a swing in... at which point what’s the point?) i prefer to push forward and make aggressive plays and I like aggressive battalions (Brass Stampede and Skulltake are my babies) but I do understand the value and power of Gore Pilgrims. I like to play a fast and loose rushdown style all moving forward in a wave and crushing them in melee rather than playing a patient waiting game or trying to draw them out. I also find myself often outrunning an unbuffed vanilla Bloodsecrator so I’ve seriously been considering just leaving him on the shelf and finding another way. I guess I’m trying to crack the list for a lightning fast Blitzkrieg style of warfare using mortals without summoning and MSU to get around quickly and efficiently and answer pressure points on the board without needing to stay anchored. Thats why I can’t leave home without a lot of Skullreapers and Khorgoraths and even Wrathmongers to a certain extent, and enjoy the power of the charge on Mighty Skullcrushers but I can never figure out what to do with my Battleline lmao. I think it’s entirely accurate to say I have a mild disdain for Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors viewing them more often than not as a necessary evil to meet minimum requirements. I’m also readily willing to use lesser used Slaughterpriest blessings and even cook up weird strategies involving them (Goretide + Slaughterborn turn 1 super charge involving blood tithe, Blood Sacrifice, And a successful blood bind to get the general in ASAP then the charges as quickly as possible). Im willing to leave no stone unturned in my quest to perfect my technique but it’s entirely possible if I start attending tournaments I’ll see exactly why nobody plays like this or runs these lists or these units or in this particular way. I think it’s also entirely possible I’m mimicking my World Eaters strategy from 40k, because if you don’t make a mad dash into melee ASAP you WILL get shot off the board, so the safest strategy is MSU put them in trucks and zoom up the board to get out and get in combat. Otherwise you’re a sitting duck and believe me T’au give me hemerroids.

Oh believe me, I have used them and actually had an enemy hero kill them itself.

I find it difficult to fit them into my lists more often than not

This is definitely a different kind of list, but it all includes my favorite units and if it is somehow competitive, or able to do really well I will be so excited.

I don't own any Flesh hounds, so I came up with this instead. I could have tried it with Gore Pilgrims, but literally Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors are mandatory. I could also try it out with Brass Stampede. I always take IR Bloodthirster just because I like how it looks, but really it doesn't matter. Also I built my 1 that way aside from Skarbrand. I could just drop him altogether however and take...something else. IDK what. It would free up some points for a second Khorgorath though and some other hero (Skullgrinder..?) I like the idea of just getting all the buffs rolling on the Skulltake, Skullgrinder giving hit rolls of 4+ two wound rolls, pick the highest, hits of 6+ are mortal wounds, wound rolls of 6+ are double damage, now we're rerolling all failed hits and failed wounds, etc... Keeping a tight little turbo buffed deathball rolling around the field destroying anything it comes in contact with through sheer ferocity. On Skullreapers, on the charge, assuming they somehow got some skulls already let's say 10, 1 CP gives +1 to wound rolls, they've got +1 to hit (hopefully) from the Slaughterpriests, they're re-rolling all failed hit and wound rolls, they're doing mortal on 5? 6+'s, they're rolling 2 wound dice, they're doing double damage on 6's hitting on 3's wounding on 2's, that's the big time boys. Bloodstoke the Khorgorath and get that bad boy up in there right alongside them. I've got multiple threats, you can't afford to ignore my Khorgorath's or my Skullreapers, but you can't afford to ignore my Bloodthirster and you can't ignore my Mighty Skullcrushers rushing in to trample your face and pin your down. Anvil & Hammer baby. Smash in and lock them down with Mighty Skullcrushers then swing with the hammer that is the Bloodthirster or deathball. That's definitely my style, hit hard, fast and be aggressive as all get out. No time to relax or breath, pressure on at all times. Allegiance: Khorne Leaders Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage (260) - Artefact: Harvester of Skulls Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100) - Blood Blessing: Resanguination Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100) - Blood Blessing: Resanguination Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140) - General - Trait: Violent Urgency - Artefact: Gorecleaver Bloodstoker (80) Battleline 3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140) - Bloodglaives 3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140) - Bloodglaives 3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140) - Bloodglaives Units 5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers 5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers 1 x Khorgoraths (90) 5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers Battalions Skulltake (190) Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 143

That’s a brilliant use of Murderlust that would never have occurred to me. The way I would play such a list is to have a priest with Resanguination (because it can be useful for anyone with multiwounds) and Crimson Rain. I like your way though, it totally makes sense, and is also cheaper, and also saves a prayer for something else. I guess I’m just a little obsessed with using out of the box or rarely seen options because I want to find a hidden gem or something haha.

I usually do, but it also worked amazingly on the Skullgrinder. Basically I just tried to give him as many attacks and chances for attacks to go through as possible and rip and tear for the bonus wound rolls. It definitely worked, but then he was irrelevant on the other side of the board by himself. He did one shot the hero though

Well my list for now looks like this: Allegiance: Khorne Mortal Realm: Ghyran Leaders Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140) Bloodsecrator (140) - Artefact: The Crimson Plate Bloodstoker (80) Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100) - Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy Skullgrinder (80) - General - Trait: Disciple of Khorne - Artefact: Gorecleaver Battleline 10 x Blood Warriors (200) - Goreaxes - 1x Goreglaives 10 x Blood Warriors (200) - Goreaxes - 1x Goreglaives 10 x Bloodreavers (70) - Meatripper Axes Units 5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers 5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers 5 x Skullreapers (170) - Daemonblades - 1x Soultearers 1 x Khorgoraths (90) 1 x Khorgoraths (90) Battalions Skulltake (190) Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 146 I've considered getting an Exalted Deathbringer, which using his command ability in addition to banners and the Skullgrinder can bring most of my units up to 10 bravery, which seems pretty good. On the other hand, an Aspiring Deathbringer could bring more attacks to the table. Then there's a second Bloodstoker, like you said, one is mandatory for the battalion. If I want to be really greedy I could drop a priest and get both, but it seems impractical for various reasons. 1) Slaughterpriests apparently suck outside of Gore Pilgrims so it's hard enough getting a Killing Frenzy to bring my Skullreapers from 4+ hit to 3+, and in addition at the very least for charging units my LoKoJ is mandatory so that eats a CP right away, and it'd take 2 CP to both boost bravery and boost attacks. 18" range isn't much, and it's 12" for the Bloodreavers to really shine, which keeps everything really close knit. I prefer to play more aggressively, rather than waiting for my enemy to come to me. This is for a few reasons: 1) most people don't want to straight up brawl with Khorne because we're the best at it, except maybe Ironjawz who don't care. 2) The longer I expose myself the more guys I am losing to shooting without doing anything in return and 3) I just enjoy slaughtering models in CQC, and I'm a little impatient I'm always a fan of say, Barbarians in D&D, the Warrior was my main in WoW (Fury Warrior) for charge and huge damage, I love aggro red decks in magic, etc. The patient, "Wait for them to come into my safety zone bubble" strategy usually...never works for me. I like to rush forward in a red tide of blades and mayhem. I like big axes and big damage (Which is my Insensate Rage is my waifu and Skullreapers are my prized units alongside Khorgoraths, which naturally leads me to always having them in every list, and the Skulltake amplifies them to 11).

No, I didn’t read their errata or anything and I don’t know their rules ? Well anyway I won but playing this particular fellow is why I have PTSD against shooting armies.

I had a game yesterday against a Sylvaneth list that was built around a bravery bomb. Ive noticed some things. He decided to fight a two front war, which hurt us both. I gave him the first turn and so he teleported a Drycha and about 15 revenants to a pair of wild woods he had summoned on my left flank. Apparently the list was built around a bravery bomb. He then put a single tree Lord on the right and a pack of dryads in the very center 30 or 20 I believe. In his back field he had Kirnoth Hunters with bows (they hurt) and a branch wych. The way he attacked me caused me to break “formation” and totally removed some buffs from my Skulltake Battalion. I actually took a Skullgrinder who got his shot of glory in but then, due to the map and everything, was irrelevant along with half my army past the first turn. Long story short at the end of my 2nd turn I had 10 blood tithe points (really only 8 because cap) and 9 out of 10 were his wiped units, only during his second turn did he completely wipe out one of Skullreapers units. He was gunning for them all game but I still managed to demolish his army despite having a totally broken formation and nearly useless Battalion, being outside the range of Bloodsecrator almost all game, and various other things that essentially broke my synergy down. Turn 1 a Khorgorath almost 1 shot Drycha leaving her with 2 health and the sheer power of Skullreapers being amazing carried me. I summoned a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage at the end of my 2nd turn movement phase, miraculously got my charge no re-rolls and 1 shot his super ancient tree lord of doom who ignored rend of 1, had a +2 save and re-rolled 1’s. It was at this point he called it game. I really love the Skulltake Battalion but I’ve got to stick together and keep my Skullgrinder with everyone for that 2 wound rolls buff which I never got to use but had turn 1 where he 1 shot the tree lord himself. The Bloodsecrator was nearly useless all game and it’s entirely possible I may reconfigure my list entirely to no go with one... the extra attack was missed though as well as battleshock immunity. What was also missed was re-rolling blessings and prayer because boy howdy did my 2 Slaughterpriests whiff a lot!

Who... who is Barry? Also is it The spear Exalted Deathbringer or the gouge axe one? Or the other other one nobody talks about. (Bloodbite Axe and Runemarked Shield).

Well, for units I know I always feel the need to take and love the playstyle of it's been Skullreapers and Khorgoraths, which is kind of why I'd like to see if I can try to sort out a more mobile list without relying on a Bloodsecrator. I'm going to experiment with taking a Bloodthirster along, but at the end of the day I may just leave him for summoning and bring an all mortals Skulltake list. I've got 1-2 I like and would love to see in action.

I had an interesting game today, but I’m also sort of at a pressure point of frustration with the entire hobby. So today I kind of got double information, but not quite the information or results I was looking for. The past few weeks have been a string of frustrating games, that I will liken to any competitive video games ranking structure. The past 2-3 weeks where I’ve been looking to stress tests some lists have turned into pain points that have me wondering what I’m even doing with my life right now. My opponents are either, to follow up on my promised analogy, either diamond/master rank players that give extremely one sided games where I get absolutely wrecked and basically don’t even get to roll dice because “my lulzy cheese list tables you turn 1” and/or level 1 noobs/bronze players who don’t even know how the game works. I would say I’m probably a strong silver to low tier gold, to use idk Starcraft, League of Legends or whatever’s rating system. Every game has either been under 2,000 points, or turned into multiple opponents/team Games, or people cancel, and so forth. I’ve spent 1000’s$ on armies already and yet I can’t find any just decent good opponents where I can stress test some lists. All of this is a preface for today’s game in which, once again the only person who offered to play me at all is yet another noob who had the unfortunate habit of wanting to be a ****** rules lawyer AND HE HASNT EVEN READ THE RULES. It’s ****** 16 pages my man can you not spare 10-20 minutes to just read every word? Constantly calling anything I did even mildly in my favor as, “really dumb” when he murdered some large number of my Bloodreavers and I pulled in a line starting from the left models as they were slain, then his other unit (my unit) of brutes was out of range and thus unable to attack. I digress, but it took almost 3 hours for 2 ****** turns at which point i had to go because dude wants to challenge me on every single ****** thing in a game he hasn’t even played yet, mixing first edition rules with 2nd edition because of “some forum I read” and “a battle report I watched”. I asked him how well he understood the rules and how familiar he was with them and he said, “I’m pretty familiar” yet knew almost nothing except the names of the phases... “Can I run and charge in the same turn?” *pushes models up directly next to mine in movement phase* “hey you can’t end your movement within 3” of my models.” “Why not?” “It’s in the rules for movement phase.” “Oh.” Like I get ok, you’re new to the hobby and excited but literally don’t argue over trivial ****** when you haven’t even read a basic 16 page rule set which is tiny compared to most board games. Like have you seen a PHB for D&D? Btw I’ve read 3rd edition through 4th page to page cover to cover twice. Don’t @ me with rules. Anyway. I’m done raging about lackluster opponents and games: Today I tested my SKARBRAND list against my best IJ list which is Bloodtooth Battalion. He got first turn and let me tell you, be very, very wary of Ironjawz for they can haul ass. He used his first hero phase to put Frenzy of Violence from both Warchanters onto his two units of 3 Gore-Gruntas, was able to cast Cogs far enough back I couldn’t unbind them, and rolled very well for his Mighty Destroyers and Ironfist roles, pushing his GG’s up exactly 8.01” away from my right line (of 20 Bloodreavers and 5 Skullreapers plus a mighty Lord of Khorne). He tentatively moved up his Megaboss on Maw-Krusha and ran ahead quite some distance with his Warchanters, Fungoid Cave Shaman, and 3 sets of 5 brutes + Megaboss on Foot. He charged and his Gore-Gruntas easily made it, having used 1 Waaagh! To give 1 unit +1 attack and +1 to hit from Frenzy of Violence. They did an extra D3 damage on their Fanged Hooves and Teeth due to the charge distance with a mighty +4 on the charge (+1 Eager for Battle, +1 Bloodtoofs, +2 Cogs). These Gore-Gruntas destroyed my entire right flank wiping a unit of Bloodreavers and injuring my Skullreapers down badly. They ran from battleshock. My turn I planted my banner, cast Killing Frenzy on 20 Bloodreavers, Blood Sacrificed on SKARBRAND and did 3 damage to him, then healed him with Resanguination up to 12. I then used Blood Boil x3 hitting all 3 and knocking off a brute and bringing one down to 1 wound and killing a Gore-Grunta or two. He was incandescent from not fighting at all last activation. During my activation last turn I killed maybe 1-2 pigs. This turn I moved my left flank forward to engage the brutes, moved SKARBRAND over to engage the Gore-Gruntas and then rolled for charges. I got the charges off but got in an awkward position of getting almost all my Bloodreavers into the fight but consequently only getting maybe 1 Blood Warrior in and entirely unable to get my Skullreapers in. Skarbrand had 1 pig left to kill period which was so trivial and disappointing because it had 1 whole wound because my Mighty Lord of Khorne did work before he went out. Like one whole pig of 6 was left after it was all said and done. Overall I keep waffling on Bloodreavers. Out of 52 attacks I did 4 whole wounds to brutes with a +1 to hit and -1 rend... And I just wonder why I bring them. It seems like it requires a lot of heroes, buffs and investment to make them ANY good otherwise they’re literally worthless, but then half the games so are my Blood Warriors so I can’t seem to find the sweet spot for my Battleline units... whether to invest in more Blood Warriors or just MSU reavers or what. I’ll just fast forward and at the end of my 2nd turn after he went first all that was left was SKARBRAND, a Bloodstoker, 3 Slaughterpriests and a Bloodsecrator. All he had remaining was 8-10 brutes (can’t quite remember), a Fungoid Cave Shaman and 2 Warchanters - SKARBRAND deleted a completely healthy MBOMK, and Blood Boil did work on the Megaboss on foot as well as some Skullreapers doing some mortal wounds both in attacks and in their death throes with Blood Boil finishing off the remaining pigs. Everything was almost dead and who knows if SKARBRAND + support could have killed the remaining brutes and heroes. I think next time I’ll do two Killing Frenzy, and drop a Blood Sacrifice. I have no summoning at the moment and I was waiting to pull a clutch charge or fight in the hero phase with Blood Tithe but I didn’t use it in all 2 turns... even though I think I was capped already. I missed the +1 to wound from on the Charge LoKoJ and it’s entirely possible I could replace Footboss with juggerboss. I’m at 1980/2000 points. I don’t know if I’m in love with the Bloodreavers but maybe Ironjawz is just a hard matchup for them. Maybe next time against Ironjawz more Blood Warriors is the answer or MSU Reavers or something. I didn’t get to see as much of what SKARBRAND is really capable of as I would have liked - but apparently IJs are not to be messed with, they are scary even in the hands of a noob (I suggested ways he could maximize his smashing and bashing and generally tried to actually give me a good game since for all intents and purposes I may as well have been playing myself again). So overall I don’t know. I would like better games and better opponents and full games played with objectives and strategy and actually see what SKARBRAND can do and what my list would be like. Sorry for the frustrated rambling rant.

So uh today I had the saddest day in the hobby of all time. I ended up playing a game against myself using my best Ironjawz list and tested out my Insensate Rage BT. I could tell you some things I learned but mostly I’m just sad it came down to running both sides of the table because I have no friends and I guess everyone in the area hates me.

Goblins versus World Eaters would be cool too

This is entirely speculative: not even a rumour, just what “makes sense” in a more sort of way - War Hounds aka World Eaters vs Space Wolves in a new “Dark Imperium” style box. Ive heard strong rumors Angron is coming out in Christmas, and Leman Russ allegedly as well - the two have a strong rivalry, one being the obedient executioners of the Emperor and one whom the Emperor just couldn’t quite trust as much, both excel in melee, Wulfen from the warp after a time are almost Khorne Berzerkers. A Christmas box set of World Eaters vs Space Wolves with Leman Russ and Angron dueling coming out of the warp, fighting tooth and claw whilst their armies battle around them would make for a sick box set (Primarchs not included, like how Guilliman was separate from Dark Imperium). Any basis in this speculation? What do you guys think?

Also extremely valid point!