Evil Bob

Sorry my apologies, I should have thrown up some numbers. X numbers of wounds for min bravery roll to lose models 15 Wounds and a ‘6’ 18 Wounds and a ‘5’ 21 Wounds and a ‘4’ 24 Wounds and a ‘3’ 27 Wounds and the commonly deployed 9 model unit is gone Statistically half of the single damage wounds will bounce off etherial essentially doubling the above number of successful wound rolls needed. Nudge the number of successes required by one for every six if Deathless Spirits comes into play. KO doesn’t spam mortal wounds. Although I’ve had Frost Lords reliably get stopped while charging Spirit Hosts. It might require top-shelf mortal wound spamming for it to matter. It’s not theoretically impossible a command point on Inspiring Presence will be needed. It will just require someone to bust the game in a way sky dwarves can’t reach. A KO player could essentially shoot everything at some Spirit Hosts and it could go big or fizzle. A twenty Durin strong Thunderers can only expect to get through 9 wounds and that almost a quarter of a 2k army. An Ironclad firing shrapnel can expect around 7 wounds. So for almost half of a 2k army doing a classic clown car attack they can expect to put the Spirit Host unit at a single bravery loss on a battleshock roll of 6. Five lost models (a sixth on an unlucky roll) leaving four Spirit Hosts (or three on an unlucky roll). The bedsheets costing a fraction of the attacking units. If the KO kept the hero count low and brought the whole army to bear they could just wipe the unit so long as the rolls were statistically average. For 360 points I could live with that, if they roll a bit below average I can see the possibility of spending a command point to keep a single Spirit Host or two for VPs.

This was the exact same hope I felt at the reveal. Because there isn’t enough mary-sue juice GW Devs could pump into a new hero to fix the endemic problems in the army book.

Spirit Hosts have an additional value that it takes three wounds for every shift on their Bravery 10. Spending a Command Point on Inspiring Presence for them is unheard of.

The Relic and Command Trait are a big deal. Which might explain why I want to run the smash bat outside Hollowemourne. It really depends on how smash-y people are feeling.

What is it at now, $40 for ten? Utter cartoon supervillany. Aside I am extremely excited at using the Cursed City objective markers in AoS. Don’t ****** this up for me GW!

Since LoG excludes Soulblight and the army spells are “meh” there is very little reason to not take a Necromancer since VDM is one of the best spells in the game. Might need to get more Bladegheists to properly try it out. I’ve generally stuck with Nighthaunt since that is The Lady’s Legion. When the Club gets back together I plan on trying out different lists as a way to bring back units that are not normally seen since AoS 2.0 came out.

Nagash did invent Necromancy after after learning Dark Magic from several captured Dark Elves he imprisoned in his wacky SAW Pyramid. Truth be told it was it just a regular Pyramid. But how cool would it have been as a weird survival movie with mortal Nagash as the serial killer and Dark Elves as the people caught up in it? Although it wouldn’t surprise me if those familiars were just zombie equivalents this Torgillius channels. Much like how Nagash has dominion over all necromantic constructs.

The Ogar Gluttons (or foot solders) are his tarpit. They are pointed cheaply per wound and are hard to shift. Charging them with any hammer is exactly what he wanted since that opens up counter charges by the Stonehorn where they get the most possibility from mortal wounds. About the best you can hope for is locking them with one of your tarpits and aiming for positions on objectives. Depending how many there are a full skeletal unit might be able to lock horns. I’ve fought large blocks of Gluttons before and it has been a slugfest brawl every-single-time. Ideally you want to be charging the Stornhorns (and turn off his mortal wound charge) which is hard to achieve with a decent opponent. Morghast Harbingers are the best bet for that, alternatively sending them after the Leadbeltchers can be good for protecting your support heroes. Grimghast Reapers have decent mobility and might be able to pull off that job. Bracketing the Frost Lord is something I keep in mind whether it be with magic, declaring charges, or prioritizing combats. With all those units I’m guessing the Mournfang packs were two model units and used as opportunist Raiders to either fight, snag objectives or babysit. If you’re only running two Morghasts then their best possible job is as Raiders as well. Two Morghasts in Nagash’s Legion will wipe the floor against two Mournfangs. You have the same armor, same wounds, better rend, and more damage output. The only downside is after slaughtering them getting countercharge by a Stonehorn. Tightening up your list composition might help. I try to keep control on hero points, once it clears 25% of the army I lock it off. Every hero has to have strong justification. When I bring Arkham then the Necromancer generally stays home. Ascetically I like the Wight King but his damage output is disgustingly low, other than his armor save GW Devs made the Vampire Lord better in every way. Some people here have sworn on the value of Graveguard with double handed weapons and crazy combos. Normally I didn’t care for them because of low speed, poor armor, and high price. GW did lower their points awhile back. Oddly against this opponent they could be great since he’s coming to you. Wights are more price efficient on damage than Grimghadt Reapers whose advantage is maneuverability and survival (and regen models point cost). If you are going with Graveguard commit to the full unit and try to deploy them right behind a sacrificial unit that will get attacked turn one. Alternatively or co-equally a unit of ten (twenty, or even thirty) Grimghasts could just be out and take the hit for a counter attack like a baited trap. Consider upgrading the Morghasts to four models if you want an actual hammer unit. Otherwise focus using the as Raiders. Or ditching them entirely for points that can be spent on Graveguard or Grimghasts. Chainwrasps count as battleline. They work great in units of twenty for a chess game approach. Although if you really want to stop the charges cold go forty. Try and save a command point for either battleshock or regen. Skeletons spam dice so they are a sort-of hammer unit when above 30 models. The units they are best suited against with this opponent are his Gluttons and Morunfang. To be honest after the Nighthaunt book came out mine have mostly been put away. So my unit structures in Grand Host of Nagash go Bedsheets=tank, Morghast=Hammer (after the point hike my Grimghasts saw less play), VLoZD=hammer/support. Sometimes Direwolves for objective shenanigans and occasional sacrificial unit. In a grand sense out maneuvering BCR isn’t likely with LoN. I wouldn’t recommend Legion of the Night or related units from said Legion. Go with the strength of this book which is protracted warfare. Castle your gravesites in range of two or more objectives. Place one a bit back so your general can always summon slain units. Or place them in groups of two at halfway points between objectives. The plan is for all 4d3 healing to be happening every time. Don’t bother placing summonable units in the ground. That trick is if your opponent doesn’t have reasonable board coverage and yours does. Lastly the Vampire Lord or VLoZD boosting a large hammer unit of Graveguard/Grimghasts/4 Morghasts is really nice. It takes the edge off bad dice rolls. There might have been more to say but it’s almost 1am and my head is getting fuzzy. Good hunting Firststopgames. ps banking a Command Point wouldn’t hurt in case he goes first

Has anyone tried running The Sepulcharl Guard? I sort of boxed mine after the LoN FAQ nerf and forgot about them. Might be nice to dig these bonus up.

Overwhelming Dread from the Lore of Deathmages really mess with Frost Lords. They also get hung up on Spirit Host blocks or invuln saves in general. BCR hate facing Nighthaunt. I’ve used Chainwrasps in many different death related armies to stop oversized rampaging monsters. Grimghast Reapers can slow or dish damage. A cheap twenty man infantry block across your deployment zone edge stops most Alpha Strike armies. Their supper charge only obliterating 160 points is called mitigated damage. The one thing you really want to avoid is having the BRC take out your unit followed by him getting another charge turn. So figuring out unit durability is important. With the first list four Morghast Harbingers with Spirit Halberds have a good chance of wrecking anything BCR so long as they fight first. What kind of list is this BCR player running?

As long as you don’t count Ghoul King on Terrorgheist as a vehicle then things will go great. Honk kind of opened and closed it with the Varghulf comment. Unless you are really hurting for an objective holding 20x ghouls that is the model to summon with the Archregent. Alternatively the GKoZD can summon a Varghulf but that requires giving up a command point which is one less Feeding Frenzy😱 and the terrorgheist option. It should only be done in the fluffiest of narrative times. In a quantum universe it is possible for an Archregent or GKoTG might to summon Flayers with that extra mobility to “rush” towards an objective/target. I’ve never had that move prove successful. It is very exploitive with regular ghouls and mounted ghoul kings. Combined that with the Royal Mordants warscroll battalion and it will be like that scene from Space Balls as a unit approaches Ludacrous Speed. Although the “taxes” involved will make this a center all design when budgeting points. You don’t need any Flayers. Even three of them are a bit expensive as opportune objective holders/skirmishers. Then there’s the dirty truth about the “muscle” options we call Flayers and Horrors. They are expensive for their base warscrolls. Other armies do it cheaper since FEC need to be balanced against regening models and Feeding Frenzy. So the challenge is to make them useful through tactics/spells/abilities/warscrolls/etc. Even GW took a hint and have been lowering the cost on Horrors in a bid to get more of them on the table. Right before the current book dropped the LVO champ won using a min/maxed GKoTG and ghoul force. The Start Collecting box is BOSS. I bought four of them and have no regrets. You don’t actually need four. Used Ghouls show up in secondary markets regularly. The Endless Spells are a good purchase. I generally bring either the chalice or stampede, rarely both if feeling lulz-y.

“Cool Story Bro,” time. Several years ago I used them in an escalation league. Always in Grand Host of Nagash. Sometimes as skirmishers/lesser-hammers in a unit of two and sometimes as bid-kid-kicks in a unit of four. Morghasts Harbingers with Spirit Halberds. A few common themes. Died too easy in sustained fights Needed every attack die Very swing-y even in GHoN. Either they slaughtered the Bloodthurster in one round of fighting or all four wiped to bow carrying trees after whiffing the attack rolls. The gambler inside me couldn’t get enough of these guys. That 3D6 charge is killer. If a Vampire Lord on Abysmal Terror super-charges them it is almost criminal what the threat range goes to. At the end of the league I qualified to attend the one day pyramid tournament championship where the top players from two different game nights duked it out. People aren’t used to seeing these guys. I would tie up enemy units with other forces and try to nuke soft or important targets with the Morghasts. Almost made the top four semi finals if not for rolling a perfect fail with them followed by a “2” on a charge roll at 3.01 inches with my VLoZD. Those die rolls were my fault and not the army. So currently their wounds are up fifty percent. Cost down after two drops over the years. Granted the last decrease was GW trying to get people to use them in OBR. Still cherry for GHoN in LoN. If you don’t mind putting almost a quarter of your army points in them, dealing with one of the early “auto-cad hell” kits, or entire matches dependent on sixteen attack dice at nail biting moments then these guys are for you.

More skeletons never hurts. Ten are only ever good for a speed bump. At that point zombies do it cheaper.

The GW Dev’s are an odd bunch. They’ll fine tune the points on units with great care (KO ships and balloon characters) while madly nerfing another (Nagash & Flamers) and ignoring obvious issues on others (Lumineth archers or Eel Force). While playing LoN for the longest time the spell casters had what felt like a Death Tax on their points when compared to other casters. It wasn’t until recently GW suddenly shot up the point cost on other casters that things didn’t feel as grossly out-of-whack. Maybe GW has it’s own delusions much like the FEC which makes understanding them from the outside impossible. I don’t begrudge the points increase. What does ****** me off is other heroes or characters that are obviously under pointed and left that way by GW. Kroak and Archean for example. Although they might not be under costed and my perspective is skewered by having over costed equivalent units. There would have been a lot less Slaneesh griping if people only brought one Keeper instead of spamming them. Totally agreement about the Archeregent.

KO are top of the game right now so losing to them isn’t unexpected. Glad to hear about post-match debrief. I try to do that with other players if they’ll have it. It’s good for experienced people as well. I have enough Flayers for a full unit but hadn’t bothered trying it out. My goal is to run a Deadwatch Battalion with three units of six Flayers. Although my painting priorities have been elsewhere. If a maxed unit buffed can preform then I’ll have to give it a serious rethink.

How well does it handle going second against KO? Or do you operate on the Durin being cocky and angling for a double-turn? You’ve really got my attention with Flayers (a personal favorite). Being able to cover 28” plus a charge is pretty sexy. Throw in a reposition with Lord of The Burning Skies on the Varghulf and go for a Feeding Frenzy double tap. How large do you run the unit?

*gasp* In this dark age of shooting is it Blisterskin’s chance to shine? Seriously... because I don’t know. Giving up Feast Day is so hard. A penalty to hit does matter, in LoN pulling a -1 to wound saved my VLoZD more than once. Maybe when the club gets back together I’ll go full “praise the sun,” and see how it shakes out with the KO.

Twenty-five years ago I bought metal Heavy Armored Skeletons for my Undead Army (after all we only had one book). They were later repackaged as Grave Guard after the book split into the wet undead (Vampire Counts) and dry undead (Tomb Kings). If things are coming full circle I have no complaints.

They used to be stronger. AoS 2.0 increased unbind range so it’s harder to backfield VDM cast. More ranged shooting and flanking options make the (un)life of support heroes interesting. Outside Legions of Nagash you could bring them in a FEC army but would also need to ally some Deadwalkers. Not advisable since you would need to canablize FEC synergies. They can show up in Soulblight as well, only do if you have a good reason to give up gravesites and really-really want your vampire general to be a combat monster. As Overread says stick to the big four of LoN. Leaning on Legion of the Sacrement is a good call. As Honk said Lords of the Sacrement is too expensive. Arkhan and one necromancer is about as far as you want to go. My Sacrement lists will often only have Arkhan or a Necromancer, freed up points are better spent on more units or squeezing a VLoZD in there. But that’s just a preference.

Both of those armies are using support heroes heavy. They are not that different from Nighthaunt with them being low wound count. Fyreslayers in particular lose allot of kick if you pick off the right targets. Ranged Attacks Chaingasts Briar Queen Coach Olynder Magic Lifestealer Arcane Bolt The Grimhailer’s spell (corpse candles for a bonus) Arkhan the Black (for magic missile spam) Movement Tricks Hexwraiths (with the pass-over attack) Vampire Lord on Abysmal Terror (his spell can allow for a mobile unit to possibly bypass the front ranks) Glaivewraith Stalkers (surivive a round and try to retreat/charge)

Smart move. The Endless Spells are kind of depressing and the integration of the Prenumbral Engine is FUBAR. The easiest way to double check your Battleline options is to pull out The General’s Handbook 2020 on Deathrattle/Deathwalkers/Nighthaunt (or if you’re a long running LoN player it is essentially the same). My favorite options remain Direwolves or Chainwrasps. For maneuverability or cheap durability respectively. Stepping out outside Nighthaunt Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths are out and with the Dolorous Guard that is somewhat of a bummer on the latter. MOAR Chainwrasp or Skeletons are good in Legion of Grief. Better return when spending a summoning CP. Skeletons get better attacks with more models (20+/30+). It’s difficult to gauge the placement of skeleton’s against the current power creep, so consider your local meta. Chainwrasp are more of a tarpit although depending on army strucuture I’ll still run them in blocks of twenty. Which is just odd for a horde unit. Blocks of forty however are gastly fun if there isn’t a rush on the game speed.

Not to mention the rabble had been hyping up a Vampire Coast reboot so much that some kind of damage control was needed. If they directly said “no it isn’t” then people would have a new expectation of GW answering them. Alternatively could have just stay quiet but that could have caused other problems later.

Originally I thought having a 5+ save on such an expensive model was stupid. Now it’s like a handicap to level the playing field.

Is anyone else wondering with the Soulblight Underworld Warband that we might get a new vampire power couple like a certain pair from the Old World. Are those matching armored uniforms or outfits... just saying.

Maybe the Devs are paralyzed in fear with upping them? But serious, isn’t the tournament scene enough of an indicator something needs to be done? Or maybe Nighthaunt are going to have to undergo a five year journey like the SCE before getting a decent publication.