Spell choice tzeentch

[KnightFire]

1 minute ago, Arkiham said:

Except it isn't obvious and that it's only seen that way as a few influential people say it is...

Clear is.

"Each wizard knows an additional spell from their chosen lore" 

given the fact that they clearly explain what lore you can choose from depending on keywords, thus making it perfectly clear. 

Not what is currently written which allows interpreting. 

 

Gaunt summoner are incredibly powerful wizards, it makes sense to grant then more options, they can't cast more spells just have more to choose from.

 

This strengthens magic and makes it more interesting, allowing greater variance of spells and opens more tactics up, limiting it just means people will pick the strongest spell unless they're speicifcally aiming for something. Boring.

But there your adding extra rules because you think a guant summoner is powerful in the lore (it is, but thats no reason to add extra rules) so you think it "makes sense" to you to make them better. That isn't how the game works though, it would also make sense for goregruntas to pretty good, but they aren't

 

[N_Watson]

1 minute ago, Arkiham said:

Except he can only cast 1 spell per turn.

So he attempts pink fire then he's done.

The casting value is 9 and on a cast roll of 9 or more, he can cast 2 spells. Of course, if he fails to cast BWV, or pink fire, he can't cast any further spells. Not what we were discussing though. 

 

[Arkiham]

Just now, KnightFire said:

But there your adding extra rules because you think a guant summoner is powerful in the lore (it is, but thats no reason to add extra rules) so you think it "makes sense" to you to make them better. That isn't how the game works though, it would also make sense for goregruntas to pretty good, but they aren't

 

I'm not adding rukes I'm saying they aren't clear.

And that Lore wise allowing multiple spell options fits that . It makes more sense than saying he's a mighty wizard but knows as much as any random pleb whose picked up his first spell tome

[Arkiham]

2 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

The casting value is 9 and on a cast roll of 9 or more, he can cast 2 spells. Of course, if he fails to cast BWV, or pink fire, he can't cast any further spells. Not what we were discussing though. 

 

Yeah, sorry I forgot about that 9 part even though I just read you say it lol

[KnightFire]

1 minute ago, Arkiham said:

I'm not adding rukes I'm saying they aren't clear.

And that Lore wise allowing multiple spell options fits that . It makes more sense than saying he's a mighty wizard but knows as much as any random pleb whose picked up his first spell tome

Im not sure it does, Lorewise it should be a really powerful mage, not one that knows two extra spells. 

[Soulsmith]

36 minutes ago, KnightFire said:

Im not sure it does, Lorewise it should be a really powerful mage, not one that knows two extra spells. 

You can also lightly poke him and he will keel over.

[themortalgod]

4 hours ago, Arkiham said:

Except it isn't obvious and that it's only seen that way as a few influential people say it is...

Clear is.

"Each wizard knows an additional spell from their chosen lore" 

given the fact that they clearly explain what lore you can choose from depending on keywords, thus making it perfectly clear. 

Not what is currently written which allows interpreting. 

 

Gaunt summoner are incredibly powerful wizards, it makes sense to grant then more options, they can't cast more spells just have more to choose from.

 

This strengthens magic and makes it more interesting, allowing greater variance of spells and opens more tactics up, limiting it just means people will pick the strongest spell unless they're speicifcally aiming for something. Boring.

Ya, exactly, this one isn't a situation of GW writing a rule that is confusing or doesn't account for a certain situation where player must essentially "ad lib" to understand.

This is a situation where on one page it says:

Models with keyword X get bonus Y

then on another page is also very clearly states

Models with keyword A get bonus B

That to me very explicitly means models with both Keyword X and A get both Bonuses Y and B. There is no text anywhere suggesting that one rule interferes with the other. TOs are certainly free to house rule how they see fit for a given event but in my mind this is absolutely a "house rule" where the TO is altering the explicit rules as written. (That said, there is no text in the LVO player pack speaking to this)

[Nico]

There's an overriding principle that a wizard gets one spell - just as a general gets one trait. The fact that a mortal Daemon General could choose from either set of traits does not let them take both.

 

[Soulsmith]

24 minutes ago, Nico said:

There's an overriding principle that a wizard gets one spell - just as a general gets one trait. The fact that a mortal Daemon General could choose from either set of traits does not let them take both.

 

Except that in a force designed as an army of mages, under the chaos god generally responsible for magic, with even acolyte magi as foot troops, do you not think it makes an inkling of sense?

[przenicki1987]

What is the problem in 1.5k when u have shaman , gaunt, herald, lord even when u take 1 spell u use almost all playable stuff so where is the problem ?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G928F przy użyciu Tapatalka

[przenicki1987]

Where is the problem in 1.5k when u have shaman , gaunt, herald, lord even when u take 1 spell u use almost all playable stuff so where is the problem ?

Wysłane z mojego SM-G928F przy użyciu Tapatalka

Wysłane z mojego SM-G928F przy użyciu Tapatalka

[Killax]

@Arkiham @Soulsmith @KnightFire

I all really respect you guys and all the effort you put into the game to make it clear to newer players. However there seems to be a basic concept rule missed from the Alliance Abilities (which includes Battle Traits, Command Traits, Artefacts of Power and Spell Lores that for me leaves very little to debate about.



So the way I read this, is Wizards from your army gain a spell from one of two spell lores.

The prime reason I medled in this topic is because it's quite often a point of debate somehow. All these abilities are Abilities and all are bound to 1 of each per Hero. At least this is applied consistantly in the game so far. I obviously can't speak for the future  

Cheers,

[Killax]

On 2017-5-24 at 4:02 PM, przenicki1987 said:

Hi all i make my wizards choice in my 1.5k tz but i have a little bit problem with spells what should i choose for thoose wizards
 
Gaunt summoner
Lord of change
Herald of tzeentch ( optionaly)
Tzaanagor shaman
 
Ofc in my meta we play that on each turn u can cast one type of spell
 

To come back to the original question! I really like the following spells from the Lores:

Lore of Faith:
1. Bolt of Tzeentch, problematic on paper but in the practicle sence a really reason to use your Faith dice. A certain pick.
2. Shield of Fate, in combination with good armour saves offcourse, a nice spel to consider if you want to go the more attrition route with Slaves to Darkness for example. To me a good secondary pick.
3. Glimpse the Future, not as main spell but ideal for the 3rd+ choice. Feels a lot like the Blood Sacrifice from the Slaughterpriest Blood Blessing. 
In general I'd say the Lore of Faith isn't too terribly exciting but Shield of Fate is certainly good. 

Lore of Change:
1. Tzeentch's Firestorm, just turning them to colourful ashes from afar! Amazing for sure and another reason to use that Faith dice.
2. Arcane Transformation, if you run a Lord of Change (and there is no reason to not do so, other than to include more Skyfires) this is what makes them a feared Greater Daemon  
3. Fold Reality, like Glimpse one of those 3rd+ choices. It's good but it requires your army to also be semi-build around it. Those engines can work but feel like someone is restricting your builds  
There is offcourse Bolt of Tzeentch in the Lore of Change aswell, which would be my pick for the 2nd choice! Though I left it out because it's ideal to use for the Mortals and in general Daemons can thake the risk of going for that Firestorm.

It's typical to see half abilities be designed for casual purposes, same applies to most Artefact lists Ive seen so far and in general I'd say that AoS is build around the idea that 1-2 Wizards are 'sufficient'. Tzeentch can easily run 3-4 or more if you really want to, by large because there are 3-4 nice additional spells to choose from.

Mortals are a bit more limited in a way but this is in line with the narrative aswell.

So to come back to your list, these would be my picks:
- Gaunt Summoner - Anything goes, he has the choices, your army build will depend which is the best
- Lord of Change - Tzeentch's Firestorm
- Herald of Tzeentch - Fold Reality, if you thake this guy you'll want Horrors, if you thake Horrors you'll like Fold Reality  
- Tzaangor Shaman - Bolt of Tzeentch

Cheers,

[kozokus]

The very few times i played Tzeentch, my N°1 spell was Bolt. That firestorm was disapointing most of the time. Sure, if you are lucky you crack the table, but most of the time that was an extremly expensive Mystic bolt/fumble.

[Killax]

Hmmm well to me luck stops being a big factor with a LoC, youve got the Fate Dice, there is no reason to not use them for these kinds of spells.

Bolt is certainly the most allround one