Empire Gunline List

[ltpliskin]

Hi all,

 

First time poster here and just new to age of sigmar and warhammer more generally.

 

I'm keen to put together a gunpowder focussed list and was wondering whether this kind of list would be viable at all:

 

"Allegiance: Order

18th Valerian Reigment of Foot
Leaders
Freeguild General (100) - Stately War Banner
Units
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
10 x Freeguild Outriders (280)
Behemoths
Celestial Hurricanum (320)
War Machines
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)
Battalions
State Troop Detachment (120)
Total: 1980/2000"

 

My thinking is that the Cannons and Hurricanum can act as anchors to draw folk into musket range where the handgunners will get a boost from the general, hurricanum and (hopefully) standing still. Which unless I'm misreading the rules would allow the handgunners to hit on a 2+?

 

I'm sure there are things that won't quite work on this list so I'd love some input!

 

 

[arka0415]

It's easy to get Handgunners to hit and wound on 2+, so you've got the right approach there. However, in Age of Sigmar it's quite possible for some armies to pull off turn 1 charges- you should consider fitting in a disposable screen of melee troops in here somewhere! Also, 10 Outriders doesn't have as much flexibility as 2x5 Outriders, so consider splitting the squad in half!

[Steini]

Welcome!

I agree with arka0415. You also could add an engineer to buff the two cannons would fit in your theme. 

[ltpliskin]

Cheers for the advice guys!

Any advice on a cheap melee line? Also does the 'stand and shoot' rule apply when a unit of handguns themselves are charged?

Might have a look at an engineer, are their human ones?

Once again thanks for the help



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[Requizen]

Stand and Shoot does what it says on the tin - if a charge ends within 3", shoot them! That also means that if your Handgunners are 2" behind your screen of Guard or Swordsmen, they can shoot over their buddy's shoulders when the screen gets charged.

The major downside is that this type of gunline is super immobile and suffers when trying to get points. Outriders can do it and you can move out after annihilating the opponents lines, but you might just get outscored quickly in certain missions (Three Places of Power). But, people have placed pretty well with them, so what do I know!

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[arka0415]

59 minutes ago, ltpliskin said:

Any advice on a cheap melee line? Also does the 'stand and shoot' rule apply when a unit of handguns themselves are charged?

59 minutes ago, ltpliskin said:

Any advice on a cheap melee line? Also does the 'stand and shoot' rule apply when a unit of handguns themselves are charged?

Well if you're doing a Freeguild list the best melee screen is probably Freeguild Guard with Swords and Shields. If you want a little more melee punch then Halberds and Shields are a great pick too. And yeah, nothing says they can't use your piper ability when charged, however, you will not be able to use your Handgunners' "Steady Aim" ability.

59 minutes ago, ltpliskin said:

Might have a look at an engineer, are their human ones?

There are! The Ironweld Arsenal Gunmaster is the human engineer, he can buff artillery and has a four different shooting attacks including a powerful long-range rifle. The Ironweld Arsenal Cogsmith is weaker in ranged firepower, stronger in melee, and can heal artillery and war machines. However, the Cogsmith isn't worth much because no one is going to attack your artillery, they'll only target the crew.
 

 

[Steini]

1 hour ago, ltpliskin said:

Cheers for the advice guys!

Any advice on a cheap melee line? Also does the 'stand and shoot' rule apply when a unit of handguns themselves are charged?

Might have a look at an engineer, are their human ones?

Once again thanks for the help



Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
 

State Guard with Swords and shields is the Way to go.

fitting your theme, a human gunmaster with the keyword Engineer gives cannons from Ironweld Arsenal a reroll to hit 

[arka0415]

5 minutes ago, Steini said:

a human gunmaster with the keyword Engineer gives cannons from Ironweld Arsenal a reroll to hit 

Remember he needs to stand REALLY close to your guns- 1" away! So you can't realistically give his boost to more than 2 cannons unless you make some funky deployments.

[ltpliskin]

This is one of the soundest forums I've been on!
I did think it might be immobile, need to read into rules but think I can try to do some fancy fire and advance while hitting on a 3+.
Will rejig the list to add in a screen and engineer as well.
I wouldn't mind theming the regiment along napoleonic lines but wondering whether it's frowned upon in wargaming circles to either use diff models or modifying the base models?

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[BunkhouseBuster]

5 hours ago, ltpliskin said:

This is one of the soundest forums I've been on!
I did think it might be immobile, need to read into rules but think I can try to do some fancy fire and advance while hitting on a 3+.
Will rejig the list to add in a screen and engineer as well.
I wouldn't mind theming the regiment along napoleonic lines but wondering whether it's frowned upon in wargaming circles to either use diff models or modifying the base models?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
 

The only time anyone would be concerned with using non-GW models would be GW at events run by GW.  So long as the models are approximately the same size and have a similar visual profile, then you should be good to go!

[Trout]

On 4/23/2017 at 5:59 PM, ltpliskin said:

Hi all,

 

First time poster here and just new to age of sigmar and warhammer more generally.

 

I'm keen to put together a gunpowder focussed list and was wondering whether this kind of list would be viable at all:

 

"Allegiance: Order

18th Valerian Reigment of Foot
Leaders
Freeguild General (100) - Stately War Banner
Units
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
10 x Freeguild Outriders (280)
Behemoths
Celestial Hurricanum (320)
War Machines
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)
Battalions
State Troop Detachment (120)
Total: 1980/2000"

 

My thinking is that the Cannons and Hurricanum can act as anchors to draw folk into musket range where the handgunners will get a boost from the general, hurricanum and (hopefully) standing still. Which unless I'm misreading the rules would allow the handgunners to hit on a 2+?

 

I'm sure there are things that won't quite work on this list so I'd love some input!

 

 

I'm a fairly new Freeguild player also, so  take what I say with a grain of salt; but I have been studying the formations quite a bit lately. The State Troop Detachment bonus might not be worthwhile for your list. The reason is that you will already be at 2+ to hit without it in most situations. Each of your units has 20 handgunners, so that gives you a +1 from the Handgun Volley ability, if you don't move that's a +1 from Steady Aim, with the Hurricanum bonus you gain another +1,  putting you at the minimum 2+. When some of those gunners start dying, they will be at +3 but then the General's "Hold the Line" ability can be used to bring those units back to +2. It's not totally useless, as troops die you may lose some of those bonuses and if the Hurricanum moves too far, you can use the bonus at that point, but 120 points is a lot for something that will only be worthwhile in specific situations. I would use the 120 points on something else.

 

 

[Trout]

Following up on my previous post, since you had 20 points left over to begin with, ditching the State Troop Detachment leaves you with 140 points which is enough for a unit of pistoliers or more outriders. I would do that instead.

[arka0415]

3 hours ago, Trout said:

Following up on my previous post, since you had 20 points left over to begin with, ditching the State Troop Detachment leaves you with 140 points which is enough for a unit of pistoliers or more outriders. I would do that instead.

Just so you know, the State Troop Detachment is actually no longer legal since December 2016 because of the new FAQ. Use the extra points to add more ranged units if you can, and as Trout said Pistoliers and Outiders are both great picks for this type of army!

[Dotification]

Getting a couple-3 gryph-hounds from bits resellers on eBay would be helpful, also a Luminark to complement your Hurricanum.  

Also;

Helstorm Rocket Batteries > Cannons, though running Empire (Compendium) Cannons with Human crew gives them 8" more range, but yeah the not needing line of sight makes the Batteries and Trebuchets nice.

I also recommend putting in a Battlemage: Life (or maybe an Excelsior Warpriest) to heal your Hurricanum/Luminark's.  A Witch Hunter is a fun, fluffy & cheap Hero to add on too, as for some objectives you need a mobile Hero to capture them, & they are harder to Arcane Bolt/spell-cast off.  The Black Ark FleetMaster, or Waywatcher would make good token Aelf allies/mercs/consultants/points-fillers.  Bretonnian Paladins on foot can be 80 pt. melee can-openers/combat mortal-wounders.

Oh & skip the formation to find points for some/all of these.  

"Bubble-wrap" a sufficient-sized unit of Swords 'n' Boards 2" in front of your gunlines.

& finally make sure you're miniatures are closer to 30mm 'Heroic'-scale or they'll look weird.

[HadrielCaine]

Sounds very cool to me. Jay did well at SCGT with a gunline (and some character shenanigans for objective grabbing) listen to how at Hard6.co.uk

[ltpliskin]

The first detachment arrives! And also looks like I picked the right model scale!

Thanks for the help again guys, looking forward to getting into the game

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[BunkhouseBuster]

14 minutes ago, ltpliskin said:

The first detachment arrives! And also looks like I picked the right model scale!

Thanks for the help again guys, looking forward to getting into the game

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Looks good to me!  I'd play you!

[Trout]

18 minutes ago, ltpliskin said:

The first detachment arrives! And also looks like I picked the right model scale!

Thanks for the help again guys, looking forward to getting into the game

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Those Chaos Dwarfs are going to be pissed when they realize your empire troops stole their hats!

[arka0415]

10 hours ago, ltpliskin said:

Thanks for the help again guys, looking forward to getting into the game

Just so you know, you should base these models on 25mm round bases! Some players still use the old fantasy squares, but the official stance is to use rounds, like in 40k.

(Though, you won't be taking this army to GW stores or tournaments, so that part's not an issue at least)

Enjoy!!

[Trout]

On 4/25/2017 at 7:24 PM, arka0415 said:

Just so you know, the State Troop Detachment is actually no longer legal since December 2016 because of the new FAQ. Use the extra points to add more ranged units if you can, and as Trout said Pistoliers and Outiders are both great picks for this type of army!

Where in the FAQ does it say they are no longer legal? The only section I can find that seems to be relevant actually says the opposite:

 

Q: If I have two different warscrolls for the same unit, can I choose which to use, or must I use the most recently published version?

A: You can choose which warscroll to use, but it may be more convenient for your opponent if you use the most recently published version, especially if the earlier version is no longer readily available.

[arka0415]

12 hours ago, Trout said:

Where in the FAQ does it say they are no longer legal? The only section I can find that seems to be relevant actually says the opposite:

 

Q: If I have two different warscrolls for the same unit, can I choose which to use, or must I use the most recently published version?

A: You can choose which warscroll to use, but it may be more convenient for your opponent if you use the most recently published version, especially if the earlier version is no longer readily available.

Here's the ruling, from the December 2016 FAQ:

Quote

Q: Some of the Compendium warscroll battalions have points but the units in those battalions have been replaced with new warscrolls. How does this work in a Pitched Battle?

A: Battalions which include units which no longer have a warscroll cannot be used in Matched Play.

The State Troop Detachment expressly calls for State Troops, not Freeguild units. State Troop units do not have points, and have been replaced by Freeguild Guard (which are, actually, slightly different!). Since the units' warscrolls have been replaced, the battalion is no longer legal in matched play.

[Trout]

On 5/3/2017 at 10:34 PM, arka0415 said:

Here's the ruling, from the December 2016 FAQ:

The State Troop Detachment expressly calls for State Troops, not Freeguild units. State Troop units do not have points, and have been replaced by Freeguild Guard (which are, actually, slightly different!). Since the units' warscrolls have been replaced, the battalion is no longer legal in matched play.

OK.

 

So, they gave points to battalions you can't use.

[arka0415]

12 hours ago, Trout said:

So, they gave points to battalions you can't use.

Which is weird, right? It's almost like they made it for use in matched play and then retroactively got rid of it.

It has points, so personally I'd allow it if my opponent fielded it. The language of the FAQ doesn't leave much room for doubt though. What do you think?

[MrCharisma]

8 hours ago, arka0415 said:

Which is weird, right? It's almost like they made it for use in matched play and then retroactively got rid of it.

It has points, so personally I'd allow it if my opponent fielded it. The language of the FAQ doesn't leave much room for doubt though. What do you think?

If you're playing with friend it won't be a problem, it won't be allowed if you are playing competitively.

I like where you are going with your list. I don't know if it could hold objective or defend themselves against melee armies or armies with special deployment. 

If you want to keep running the gunlines, I would recommend a few gryph-hounds. 

[Trout]

11 hours ago, arka0415 said:

Which is weird, right? It's almost like they made it for use in matched play and then retroactively got rid of it.

It has points, so personally I'd allow it if my opponent fielded it. The language of the FAQ doesn't leave much room for doubt though. What do you think?

The question had been answered back in August on the official Age of Sigmar Facebook page. The answer was that you can use it. But August is obviously before the December FAQ update.

 

So, my guess is that miscommunication between the teams at GW led to them being as confused as we are. Either that confusion continues and we now have different people at GW saying different things, or they got together and decided in a meeting that the new ruling would be what's in the FAQ.