Baron Klatz Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Mind expanding on what you mean? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said: Mind expanding on what you mean? ? You just get an artifact list. Malign sorcery happens anywhere. Playing in a Realm can enhance it. But, as previewers have mentioned, they are optional. Literally listening to GMG reviewing it and he said "It is optional" XD as I typed this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Haha, they actually mentioned that tidbit in the community article too. "You'll want to battle in these realms, or not but you'll be missing out on the fun!". Still, I can see some tourneys using them if GW pushes it enough. If not oh well, there's still a lot to work with along with any surprises yet to be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevvermore Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 AFAIK, tournaments in the UK always use terrain rules while tournaments in US don’t. At least that’s what I heard. Remains to be seen if people will use the “fighting in realm X” rules, although with them bringing a lot more rules than the terrain, I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Buckler Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Sweet lord, this is turning into the moanfest of AOS2. This used to be one of the best threads on the site, now its really being dragged down Turn it around guys look at all the great positives from the changes, don't focus on the stuff that you dont like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said: Right now Kharadrons are all style and very little substance. I think the inherent problem with the ships is that, logically, they ought to be a 'class' of model unto themselves akin to flyers in 40k (not the exact rules, but being separate from other vehicle types). The problem is that in the framework of AoS being a pretty damn simple game they ultimately suffer from just being a giant model that has a lot of wounds and weapons. That's not to say it couldn't work and the Ironclad is certainly testament to the potential of actually having - almost - viable airships, but I think the problem is the that core of the Kharadron theme really struggles with the gameplay itself. Airships don't really 'fly' because anybody and everybody can engage with them, even if the Goblin Grot with a spear literally can't reach the damn model. Crewmen can't shoot from the airships, despite this occurring in almost literally every single piece of Kharadron artwork. Airships don't function as effect transports, because the crew can't act when they deploy and are already glass peashooters. 2.0 makes it apparent that GW don't want shooting to be as dominant a part of the game as it was prior, which is the Kharadron niche (which they were already mediocre at). No magic has already been discussed. The problem isn't so much that Kharadrons lack it, but that Dwarfs weathered it by having great anti-magic, which Navigators are a poor imitation of. I think the Kharadrons needs reworking from the ground up. Their problems don't end at their airships being kind of poor because the theme and the mechanics in there current form will perpetually be at odds with one another. Now, some may be against this because it runs the risk of the Shiny Toy Creep we saw in 40k (Flyers -> Knights -> non-Apocalypse Lords of War) but considering airships are a Kharadron exclusive thing that no other army will likely get, I think it would be fine. AoS and 40k now lack USR anyway, so if people don't want to contend with learning new Airship rules- well, just don't play Kharadrons. Whilst they're at it, give Dwarfs Duradin a shared Runic System with unique spells for the individual battletomes. Good post. That means we need a new battletome and new structure for all Duardins and with some luck, with new toys to play!!! From what I see, we have 3 options: 1-Continue arguing about new things that GW could do with KO (that's usefull for everyone). 2-Look what we have now to try to be compettive or at least good in any type of match. That means, new build lists, new combos, new strategies, etc... (that will be useful too). 3-Repeat the same things that they are handicapping our army again and again and try to stop people to debunk any possible solution (it will be useful for new players looking for compettives armies, but not for people that are already playing KO) . Don't mind what everyone chose, but hope to see more about 1 and 2 than 3 (I believe that we all know how "meh" we start in this edition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Came up with an Escort Wing for Barak Mhornar, using the new points totals, that I would quite like to try Aether Chemist (Opportunistic Privateers, Earburster) Navigator (Aethersight Loupe) 2 Arkanaught Infantry w/Sky Hooks Arkanaught Infantry w/Volley Guns Frigate (The Last Word) 3 Gunhaulers (one has The Last Word) 6 Sky Wardens w/Drill Cannons 10 Thunderers w/Aethershot Rifles Escort Wing Batallion That leaves me with 110 pts left to spend. Not a bad position to be in (kinda miffed that it's not 120, but whatever). For "fun" games, I might use those points to bring an Unforged - kind of a callback to the days when I played Dwarves and used to bring a single Daemonslayer badass to run around and cause shenanigans. For "real" games, I will probably bring either a Lord Ordinator, or increase the Thunderers to 15 The Ordinator will be useful because of the three artillery pieces. I am intrigued by the 15-strong Thunderer unit, because Mhornar Escort Wings are one of the best uses for them. With a Chemist, Opportunistic Privateers, and Focus Fire, they get 45 shots, hitting on 2+, rerolling misses. I might not need ALL those bonuses, but Opportunistic Privateers is an "aura" and Focus Fire is basically army-wide, so I might just get that bonus anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eciu Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Paul Buckler said: Turn it around guys look at all the great positives from the changes, don't focus on the stuff that you dont like This is KO thread last time Ive checked. Can you give 3 nice thinga which had happened to KO in AOS2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Buckler Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Boats got cheaper Wizards can ally Navigators got cheaper 3 for you there Plus 4 more bonus things I thought of for you Realm artifacts and command abilities Less Balloon spam (as wardens went up) Admiral cheaper brock Cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Well also the Navigator actually got USEFULL, as well as cheaper, which is kind of a big deal. It's kinda like we got a brand new character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, eciu said: This is KO thread last time Ive checked. Can you give 3 nice thinga which had happened to KO in AOS2 ? What do you want to hear? We know the core rules and new points (still we need to know artifacts, weapons and magic from the realms, and if all the allegiance abilities are still the same). So, again, what you want to hear? IMHO, you want to hear that we suck. AoS2 buffs some armies and we are not one of them. At the same time, we don't have direct access to all the new toys (without using allies). Is that what you want to hear? We don't know if we are going to see new lists, maybe a secret OP combo using new artefacts or weapons (and point reductions). Maybe something that can break the meta (spam navigators)? Or new Order soup-lists using KO as the main base to build the list? But at this moment,, it's really impossible to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander86 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 My LGS invited me down to the store to give AOS 2.0 a try. I'm bringing most of my collection down and will build a list in direct reference to the materials GW provided to their retailers. My thoughts on this whole thing: - In this expansion, Magic is the name of the game and with GW trying to sell the game and more models on Cinematic Sorceries, I had a feeling this would be the case. - The crux of this edition of AoS is going to be between Sigmar and Nagash so I prepared myself for this fact. Stormcast and Death as a whole will get the bulk of the love for the next year or so and I would assume somewhere down the line, Chaos will have its turn. - Lets look at the comparison to Tau back when they first appeared in 40K in the early 2000s. The backlash on the aesthetics aside, the Tau were not strictly playing on an even playing field with armies that has access to Magic/Psykers and summoning and were not going survive getting charged which was actually the metagame that the Tau were thrust into. Needless to say they didn't do quite as well initially. Look at Tau now. - I am not a competitive player but I too feel a bit salty knowing that some of the changes aren't really in favor of my collection. But see the point above. I think KO will have another chance to shine but only once GW has gotten their Stormcast and Elf fix out of their system. We may have to settle to become a more finesse-styled army for now but if nothing else, I personally believe we still have the best looking army in AoS, flying fish and turtles be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eciu Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Beliman said: What do you want to hear? We know the core rules and new points (still we need to know artifacts, weapons and magic from the realms, and if all the allegiance abilities are still the same). So, again, what you want to hear? Hm.. that GW put any kind of effort into rethinking KO gameplay-wise instead of "just buy SCE" ^^ Or put any quality control to a mess of a rules KO has (hilarious situation where many of the things from the battletome is actually invalid, and even warscrolls on app are invalid and need FAQ). Seems that they've made a "shooty mobile army" and then decided AoS is not about shooting (they have wh40k for that), and well.. mobility is done better by many other factions (even those who normally are not good at it, isn't Nurge quite fast with it's for almost everyone to run&charge ?). 1 hour ago, Beliman said: IMHO, you want to hear that we suck. AoS2 buffs some armies and we are not one of them. At the same time, we don't have direct access to all the new toys (without using allies). Is that what you want to hear? If you have had noticed, I've just make a remark that AoS2 while being great/interesting for 90% of the player audience, might not be really good/interesting for KO. Seems that all old limitations were preserved, and few new added (nerf to shooting while leaving option to snipe heroes with abilities, magic ^^). AoS2 might be super great/interesting/cinematic but KO is left on the ice. Heck, adding another Battletline could be revolution for KO 1 hour ago, Beliman said: But at this moment,, it's really impossible to know. Seeing "Destruction" alliance focus on podcast I really pity them, as host was asking 3-4 times what had changed for Destruction and only answer was "we reduced few points and you can always allly a wizard". It's a clear that atm. main focus are on SCE (as always) new Death, but it would be good if there was any sign of hope for other factions. And it's funny as all this is written by a guy who just still wonders if he should just paint KO and don't bother or think about actually playing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander86 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, eciu said: And it's funny as all this is written by a guy who just still wonders if he should just paint KO and don't bother or think about actually playing them. So where do you finally stand on that/ Is your main priority to collect the models to paint? Personally, I am still planning on getting a couple of models like the Navigator which I never had but I guess is a auto-include moving forward. I'd be happy to get a Forge World KO model if it looks great and the rules suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, eciu said: Hm.. that GW put any kind of effort into rethinking KO gameplay-wise instead of "just buy SCE" ^^ Or put any quality control to a mess of a rules KO has (hilarious situation where many of the things from the battletome is actually invalid, and even warscrolls on app are invalid and need FAQ). Seems that they've made a "shooty mobile army" and then decided AoS is not about shooting (they have wh40k for that), and well.. mobility is done better by many other factions (even those who normally are not good at it, isn't Nurge quite fast with it's for almost everyone to run&charge ?). You need to ask them then. There are some leaks here and there, but I don't see anything related to KO (yet). So, unless you know someone working for GW (that doens't care about NDA) or any leak, you will not have any answer soon. 23 minutes ago, eciu said: If you have had noticed, I've just make a remark that AoS2 while being great/interesting for 90% of the player audience, might not be really good/interesting for KO. Seems that all old limitations were preserved, and few new added (nerf to shooting while leaving option to snipe heroes with abilities, magic ^^). AoS2 might be super great/interesting/cinematic but KO is left on the ice. But...we already know that (just read between KO threads, rumour or AoS2.0 posts). In other words, there isn't any KO player that is active in this forum that doesn't know that we are one of the handicaped armies in AoS2. 48 minutes ago, eciu said: Seeing "Destruction" alliance focus on podcast I really pity them, as host was asking 3-4 times what had changed for Destruction and only answer was "we reduced few points and you can always allly a wizard". It's a clear that atm. main focus are on SCE (as always) new Death, but it would be good if there was any sign of hope for other factions. And it's funny as all this is written by a guy who just still wonders if he should just paint KO and don't bother or think about actually playing them. Well, that's the story of every gamer that plays any type of warhammer game. Not going to say that sucks when your army is being squatted or otherwise underpowered. But it all depends on your gaming group. Ex: We have one Tomb Kings players using a fanmade battletome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orik Jarlson Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 What's everyone's thoughts on allying in some cheap dispossessed warriors/longbeards to act as a charge screen to buy an extra turn or two for our ranged units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Orik Jarlson said: What's everyone's thoughts on allying in some cheap dispossessed warriors/longbeards to act as a charge screen to buy an extra turn or two for our ranged units? Done it before - works just fine. Although I prefer Ironbreakers myself (who are getting a points reduction, btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 7 hours ago, mikethefish said: Well also the Navigator actually got USEFULL, as well as cheaper, which is kind of a big deal. It's kinda like we got a brand new character The rune lord is also 80 points and does what you want the navigator to do better. 7 hours ago, Paul Buckler said: Boats got cheaper Wizards can ally Navigators got cheaper 3 for you there Plus 4 more bonus things I thought of for you Realm artifacts and command abilities Less Balloon spam (as wardens went up) Admiral cheaper brock Cheaper Less balloon spam? No, it'll be just more riggers and not a single person will play with warden. Are you telling us we have to pretend KO are fine and didn't get worse in this new edition. That it isn't okay to be upset when your army doesn't get access to any of the real cool mechanics they're putting out (unless you take stormcast) and the mechanic they rely on gets worse. Less Balloon spam? Balloons are the one unit we have that shooting changes DON'T nerf hard, You think we'll be seeing LESS riggers? The best list will remain based around shoving your army into one ship. GW just made it so we have less good choices, and that even our best choices will fall apart when we go against an army that has all the awesome new mechanics like summoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 31 minutes ago, Orik Jarlson said: What's everyone's thoughts on allying in some cheap dispossessed warriors/longbeards to act as a charge screen to buy an extra turn or two for our ranged units? They are very important for a foot based KO army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orik Jarlson Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 8 hours ago, mikethefish said: Done it before - works just fine. Although I prefer Ironbreakers myself (who are getting a points reduction, btw) I hadn't even thought about Ironbreakers haha. I take it you prefer their extra attack and survivability over the extra bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Buckler Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 11 hours ago, stratigo said: The rune lord is also 80 points and does what you want the navigator to do better. Less balloon spam? No, it'll be just more riggers and not a single person will play with warden. Are you telling us we have to pretend KO are fine and didn't get worse in this new edition. That it isn't okay to be upset when your army doesn't get access to any of the real cool mechanics they're putting out (unless you take stormcast) and the mechanic they rely on gets worse. Less Balloon spam? Balloons are the one unit we have that shooting changes DON'T nerf hard, You think we'll be seeing LESS riggers? The best list will remain based around shoving your army into one ship. GW just made it so we have less good choices, and that even our best choices will fall apart when we go against an army that has all the awesome new mechanics like summoning. Wardens were reg used as cheaper access to the guns. Not an option now I'm gonna have fun with my 3 ship lists, while you stick with the negativity, I know who will have more fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander86 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 So I played a 1000 pts game at my LGS against the Nighthaunts in the SoulWar set. The LGS only had the Core Book and not the new General's Handbook so I based off my list building off the points seen in this thread. Barak Zilflin Aether-Khemist 160 Iron Clad 420 (The Last Word) Ark Comp (10 man x3 Skyhooks) 120 Ark Comp (10 man x3 Skypikes) 120 Thunderers (x5 Rifles) 100 It was a pretty fun game. We tried out the Malign Sorceries and my opponent managed to get his Pendulum spell off which tore through my units (he failed to cast twice) while Look out Sir and Glory Seekers seemed to cancel each other out and with Barak Zilfin's Master of the Skies I hit most of my Nighthaunt targets fairly consistently. It was a casual game. I am sure I got some things wrong but even the pre packaged Nighthaunts units seemed to be lacking models for some of the units so it wasn't really fair. I did flip through the Core Rule Book. Great art and lots of maps but I suspect some of the art assets are re-used from several older publications like the previous battletomes. I did get a chuckle seeing the faction descriptions, seeing Stormcast Eternals having 4 pages worth of fluff vs Fyreslayers 2 pages and Kharadron Overlords 1 and a quarter page (it would be 2 pages but they decided to put in artwork of the Ironclad vs the Bloodthirster which dominated 3/4 of the 2nd page). So yeah, Duardin looks like they are on the backburner for awhile/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 19 hours ago, stratigo said: The rune lord is also 80 points and does what you want the navigator to do better. It, in fact, does not... A Navigator with an Aethersight Loupe is better at Unbinding. With the points reductions to ships, his movement buffing ability is worth using now Perhaps most importantly, a Runelord increases your deployment drops by one. A Navigator won't, since you can just stow him aboard a ship during deployment. This is a big one. Conclusion: I'm taking a Navigator every single time, over a Runelord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eciu Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, mikethefish said: A Navigator with an Aethersight Loupe is better at Unbinding. You mean 2 unbinds are better than one with +2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, eciu said: You mean 2 unbinds are better than one with +2 ? If the model can already Unbind, it gives a third dice on Unbinding - unless there was an errata? EDIT - looks as though there WAS an errata. But the answer is still yes - two Unbinds are better than one with a plus 2. Or at least AS good as, with the Navs other benefits pushing it over the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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