Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[Tokyo Nift]

23 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

I assume you are talking itc/gt tournament. I don't know anyone that plays that silliness locally.


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You don't know anyone who plays a Disc of Tzeentch? You don't know anyone who plays the Blue Scribes? Or a Herald on a Disc? Or any Enlightened or Skyfires?

Even discs aside, Skinks are as fast as an Ironclad. :^) 

Hardly silliness. 

[FractalRain]

1 hour ago, Trebuchenanigans said:

This is also why I was looking at fumigators for a forward Thunderers unit. The good thing is that they have that retreat option in the consolidation part of the combat phase. So while they may be a one-use missile, I'd used correctly they should do a load of damage to a key target. I figure that's worth 100 points (200 with a Khemist/additional 5 grunts). 

Thanks for pointing this weapon out to me again.  I had initially decided cannons would be better for a forward attack, but with the better "to hit" value, you are likely to get more hits in.  Quick question on this - does the Aether-Khemist's ability granting +1 attack mean that you would roll two D3s for each model, or is it D3+1 attacks?

[Dez]

D3+1

[yarrickson]

Amusingly the updated help section in the KO battletome appears to mean you will get, with 10 fumigators, either, 10, 20 or 30 shots as its a d3 for number of shots and not a damage roll. So with a khemist its 20-40 shots and with 5 khemists its 60-80 shots. 

Madness. 

[FractalRain]

12 minutes ago, Dez said:

D3+1

Thanks!  Figured that was the case.

[Nico]

Quote

Amusingly the updated help section in the KO battletome appears to mean you will get, with 10 fumigators, either, 10, 20 or 30 shots as its a d3 for number of shots and not a damage roll. So with a khemist its 20-40 shots and with 5 khemists its 60-80 shots. 

This isn't a new issue. The wording is the same in the DoT book. Many Skyfire players have been ignoring this rule (sometimes deliberately) so that they get a reliable average 18 attacks with their filth disks instead of a very swingy 9, 18 or 27 attacks. 

[yarrickson]

3 minutes ago, Nico said:

This isn't a new issue. The wording is the same in the DoT book. Many Skyfire players have been ignoring this rule (sometimes deliberately) so that they get a reliable average 18 attacks with their filth disks instead of a very swingy 9, 18 or 27 attacks. 

Nefarious Skyfire players? Surely not! 

[FractalRain]

50 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Amusingly the updated help section in the KO battletome appears to mean you will get, with 10 fumigators, either, 10, 20 or 30 shots as its a d3 for number of shots and not a damage roll. So with a khemist its 20-40 shots and with 5 khemists its 60-80 shots. 

Madness. 

Apparently I need to read that section of the Battletome as I just assumed I rolled D3 for each one individually, rather than one D3 and applying it to all of them.  Seems odd they would make it different than the damage rolls.

[Mikester1487]

11 hours ago, Trebuchenanigans said:

I like your thinking. I am considering doing similar, but with an Admiral. Also using Barak-Zon.

I wonder if the GHB2 rules will introduce some initiative order based on who charges first and/or when? Maybe an extra attack on a successful charge in the Hero phase?

I think it seems likely hero phases will have some kind of benefit in the 2nd edition seeing as they added hero phase mechanics to blades of khorne as well.

 The more I look at admirals they seem to have more uses than I originally thought.  Having only 2 melee attacks is kind of lame, but as with anything else it can be augmented.

[Nico]

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Seems odd they would make it different than the damage rolls.

This is because you can use Destiny Dice on the damage roll.

[FractalRain]

That may be a good reason, but it can't be the only reason they made the rules that way.  I can understand wanting to speed up rolling D3s, but I for one would prefer to roll all my D3s individually, instead of suffering across the unit with one bad roll.  Would end up with more of an average expected rolls.

[yarrickson]

5 minutes ago, FractalRain said:

That may be a good reason, but it can't be the only reason they made the rules that way.  I can understand wanting to speed up rolling D3s, but I for one would prefer to roll all my D3s individually, instead of suffering across the unit with one bad roll.  Would end up with more of an average expected rolls.

Suffering with 1 bad roll, or rubbing our hands in glee at max shots. :-p

They did change damage to be the same in the FAQ a few months back but the immediate twitter/Facebook/forum backlash meant they changed it back mere hours later. 

[The Traitor]

8 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

This, and also how many ships does one plan on bringing? I see one or two mainly. Discs of  Tzeentch are mobile, 16" move, KO are flexible rather than fast imo.

It is fast for a dwarf :P... and a running frigate with a Navigator in sight moves an average of 16" too, with the possibility of moving up to 19" without any further buff (which they can easily get). But yes, you're right in that it will rarely be worth it to bring more than two ships, but for a 100 points I still see him as a viable option.

2 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

 

Gotcha. That will definitely help you move fast while making the mortars more effective. If speed is the thing then I'm curious why not Zilfin?


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While Zilfin brings in more raw speed, Mhornar also increases damage output, because of the rerol to hit AND the running and shooting in first turn, so it seemed like an overall better option for this list, but Zilfin is also amazing, will try it out too to see which one fits my army better.

1 hour ago, Mikester1487 said:

For ships I think 2 frigates and an ironclad all rocking sky cannons sounds like a good time.  Gun haulers serve a purpose, but I want to take too many Thunderers at 2k and those ships are points heavy..

I can't even fit the Ironclad at 2k...

I think Gunhaulers will mostly be seen in lists made around the Grundstok Escort Wing battalion, they're a bit lacklustre otherwise compared to the frigate (but are actually pretty good compared other war machines, such as an ironweld arsenal cannon, for example)

[Acid_Nine]

2 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Suffering with 1 bad roll, or rubbing our hands in glee at max shots. :-p

They did change damage to be the same in the FAQ a few months back but the immediate twitter/Facebook/forum backlash meant they changed it back mere hours later. 

it really makes more sense, as it allows a unit more freedom. Jonny snowberry may not take proper care of his equipment so his gun does not shoot as much as Konnor's highly crafted and highly cared for fumigator, or having bob's cannon only glance one chaos warrior with his shot while Fred's cannon rips through 3 of them without problem. It makes it much more satisfying to roll that much more dice.

[ninjaDance]

Anyone else considering Barak-Nar? I've been all over the map in indecision and this was the last one I've looked at (for whatever reason I tend to avoid 'default' paint schemes)... but I'm getting tempted more and more. Partially because it gives me the old anti-magic feel of my WHFB dwarfs, and partially because it makes my favourite model (Navigators) genuinely good at something.

It's unfortunate that their strength would be pretty under-utilized against a lot of lists, but it would simultaneously defend against one of the stronger sources of mortal wounds, prevent mystic shield, summoning, angry Sylvaneth forests...

[Nico]

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It's unfortunate that their strength would be pretty under-utilized against a lot of lists, but it would simultaneously defend against one of the stronger sources of mortal wounds, prevent mystic shield, summoning, angry Sylvaneth forests...

It's a bad choice as could easily have 30% of your games against armies without any magic - Stormcasts, Blades of Khorne and other KO for a start. For the same reason DoT tools for mega unbinding are useless unless you have the option of a sideboard.

[ninjaDance]

32 minutes ago, Nico said:

It's a bad choice as could easily have 30% of your games against armies without any magic - Stormcasts, Blades of Khorne and other KO for a start. For the same reason DoT tools for mega unbinding are useless unless you have the option of a sideboard.

Okay, I get how it's not an optimal choice, particularly for a tournament (which I have no intention of going to)... but does that make it bad?

I feel like Barak-Nar and Barak-Zon both shore up weaknesses in the army (magic defence, combat phase) rather than accentuate aspects it's already good at (movement, shooting). The rerolling of battleshock for Nar is also going to be worthwhile in any game, in absence of the Order battle trait.

Not saying you're wrong, but I don't know that it's going to break the army or anything if the opponent takes no magic, whereas it could provide a valuable tool you're otherwise missing if they do. It feels like Navigators are a little lackluster without the Barak-Nar bonuses and a Loupe.

[Trebuchenanigans]

1 hour ago, Mikester1487 said:

 The more I look at admirals they seem to have more uses than I originally thought.  Having only 2 melee attacks is kind of lame, but as with anything else it can be augmented.

With Barak-Zon, I feel he's best aimed at Heroes/Monsters in combat. Preferably used to finish them off after doing some damage with your guns.

Give him the +1 attack Command Trait, and the Aethershock Bludgeon, and he's doing 3 3+/2+/-3/2 attacks, re-rolling half his misses & all failed wound rolls (re-roll 1s to hit & wound) against Heroes & Monsters. I've not done the math, but surely that would result in 6 wounds the majority of the time? Use a Khemist for a fourth attack.

I also like the run & shoot ability he grants any Skyvessel he is aboard. Adds to the maneuverability of the army.

[Mikester1487]

After reading that setup for an admiral it looks like he's more suited to consistent damage output where the endrinmaster will peter out after his first round of combat. Plus that run and shoot!

[Sactownbri]

I know, range is an issue, but truth be told, the aethercannon's extra 3" won't really do much in a vast majority of instances; everyone seems to have either a move stat that will render that difference insignificant, or have movement abilities that will make that 3" irrelevant (i.e. Everyone in Destruction)

The difference is that you can deploy behind arkanauts and hit your target rather than needing to be in front. At least using the Zilfin deep strike.


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[Thomas Lyons]

3 minutes ago, Mikester1487 said:

After reading that setup for an admiral it looks like he's more suited to consistent damage output where the endrinmaster will peter out after his first round of combat. Plus that run and shoot!

I think his strongest asset is his Battleshock bubble honestly.  I suspect we'll actually see some competitive armies with 90+company on the table, all battleshock immune and pumping out huge volleys of Light Skyhook fire.  I think the potential of this is going to be much more terrifying than people currently understand, especially if there is Khemist stacking.    

[Sactownbri]

You don't know anyone who plays a Disc of Tzeentch? You don't know anyone who plays the Blue Scribes? Or a Herald on a Disc? Or any Enlightened or Skyfires?

Even discs aside, Skinks are as fast as an Ironclad. :^) 

Hardly silliness. 

My local meta is pretty friendly. A unit or two of three sky fires are common. Two units of 12 is not.


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[Mikester1487]

4 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

I think his strongest asset is his Battleshock bubble honestly.  I suspect we'll actually see some competitive armies with 90+company on the table, all battleshock immune and pumping out huge volleys of Light Skyhook fire.  I think the potential of this is going to be much more terrifying than people currently understand, especially if there is Khemist stacking.    

Yeah that bubble makes him a mini lcod.  Man, 90+ company sounds insane!  Would look very impressive on the table.

[Sactownbri]

After reading that setup for an admiral it looks like he's more suited to consistent damage output where the endrinmaster will peter out after his first round of combat. Plus that run and shoot!

Except for the khemist, all the heroes seem to be good inside boats, and useful when their ride is shot out from under them. Mileage walking varies.


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[Volund]

34 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

I think his strongest asset is his Battleshock bubble honestly.  I suspect we'll actually see some competitive armies with 90+company on the table, all battleshock immune and pumping out huge volleys of Light Skyhook fire.  I think the potential of this is going to be much more terrifying than people currently understand, especially if there is Khemist stacking.    

Mmmm so like barak-urbaz with 3 units of 40 company-men, 1 admiral, and 4 khemists. Giving 132, 24", -2 rend, d3 damage attacks. And you set up with the skyhooks in each unit as far forward as you can, then snake a tail back to the admiral to keep them all BS immune and in range of their khemists. Then, in case that wasnt enough...you might get a triumph for being 20 pts under!