Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[Tom Loyn]

Yeah, that's a really nice list.  I do kinda feel only 1x40 is necessary.  Wouldn't it potentially be better to take the 1x40 and instead have a unit of 9 Endrinriggers to tag on to the deepstriking frigate?  Gives you more mobility and the ability to assault objectives on the drop too.

One thing, the admiral is 140 fyi, but your list still adds up to 2000 even if he is  

I'm a big fan of the deepstriking Aethercannon plan.  Was looking into that myself.

[Dez]

I'm personally planning on lots of Endrinriggers myself, it's why I decided to forswear Mhornar for Zilfen.

[Aezeal]

8 minutes ago, Dez said:

That's why the Khemists are at the back edge of the board.

Hmmm stringing that far will make them less effective in some regards.. but quite a lot of armies could still kill khemist there.

[Tom Loyn]

Against armies that can, you can put them all in the frigate and use them to buff the endrinriggers or stack on the aethercannons...there are options.

[AlexHarrison]

Can anyone see whether you can use Aetherspheric endrins to drop a frigate down then use "there is always a breeze to look out for" to move it in the hero phase? It states you cannot move in the next movement phase but nothing says you cannot move in the hero phase?

[Dez]

It says no right in 'There's Always a Breeze If You Look For It'.

[AlexHarrison]

Oh yeah ? anyways as for the drop +Aetherspheric guns i think a Davy opponent will deploy chaff then the rest of the army 3 inches back behind the chaff so your 12 inch guns cannot reach. 

[FractalRain]

1 hour ago, Thomas Lyons said:

I would say that it is not clear and if you take it to an event, don't be surprised if the TO says "no."

Regarding lists, I've refined my competitive list again.  Here is what I'm going to be initially building towards:

Ziflin Allegiance 2k

• 40 Company (12 light skyhooks) (480)
• 40 Company (12 light skyhooks) (480)
• Khemist (100)
• Khemist (100)
• 10 Company (3 light skyhooks) (120)
• Admiral (general, prospector) (120)
• Frigate (aetherspheric endrins, off table deployment) (280)
  • Khemist (battleshock weapon) (100)
  • 10 Thunderers( aethercanons) (200)

Ziflin allegiance for the reroll 1s to hit and wound vs fliers, and the aetherspheric endrins to allow the Frigate to deploy off table and drop down outside 9" (but fully within range fo the Thunderers' Aethercannons onboard). The default troops are generating 51 light skyhook attacks (24" range, 4+ [3+ vs Monsters and Heros]/3+/-2/d3, reroll hits and wounds vs. fliers).  Both blocks are battleshock immune from the character trait Prospector (for first turn, before the general acts, choose a hill and make sure at least one model from each unit is on it) and a bubble projected by the general for latter turns.  Position your buffers near the back of the board and snake some tails back to them from the main units.  So those 90 troops can slowly march up the board (all battleshock immune) and put pressure on the enemy and the Frigate bomb and drop when appropriate (or really agressively take back an objective).  The main two units can lose 28 bodies before they suffer in their shooting effectiveness and the units are battleshock immune. 

 

 

If I recall correctly, I thought the Prospector trait indicated that the unit has to be wholly within the terrain?  That indicated to me that the entire unit had to be in/on it, which is much harder with large units or even multiple units.  Did I read that wrong?

[Dez]

1 minute ago, FractalRain said:

If I recall correctly, I thought the Prospector trait indicated that the unit has to be wholly within the terrain?  That indicated to me that the entire unit had to be in/on it, which is much harder with large units or even multiple units.  Did I read that wrong?

Within or on.

[FractalRain]

I guess my question is - does a single model count or does the whole unit need to be within/on?

[tokek]

12 hours ago, mmimzie said:

@Dez and @Requizen yeah thats also what I've been trying to figure out. 

 

I was thinking if you did the I do clad list. Maybe you'd bring a hauler or two so they can soak up damage and give you another save against wound and mortal wounds. This way you can really take advantage of the rigger heals.

I think you would be better off making your Ironclad your general and taking Doughty Champion. If Barak Ziflin that gives you a 4+ save, an additional 5+ against wounds/mortal wounds and then finally a 6+ against mortal wounds. Pretty tanky.

Feels quite appropriate for Barak Ziflin - the flagship being the centre of their force.

 

[edit] As ably pointed out by yarrickson the Ironclad does not get Doughty Champion because KO allegiance works differently to Order in this regard.

[Aezeal]

I don't think you can get 4+, 5+, 6+..... right?

[tokek]

40 minutes ago, AlexHarrison said:

Oh yeah ? anyways as for the drop +Aetherspheric guns i think a Davy opponent will deploy chaff then the rest of the army 3 inches back behind the chaff so your 12 inch guns cannot reach. 

Agreed. I think if you take a Frigate full of Cannon Thunderers you are really looking to make your opponent castle up against the threat and then need to build the rest of your list to take advantage of the fact that many opponents will do exactly that. If your opponent does as you want you can then just keep the frigate off the table as a constant threat in case they try to break out - it should be worth keeping a few hundred points of models off the table for a while if that gives you a big positional advantage in return.

[Volund]

I have not found any writings that say you are only allowed X number of extra saves. In fact you could probably also bring a shield of saphery and jade battlemage and sisters of the thorn and and luminark and warrior priest and take master of defence (since you are basic order at this point) to have 4+, 4+, 6+, 6+, 6+, 6+, 6+

[tokek]

8 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

I don't think you can get 4+, 5+, 6+..... right?

Each of them is a separate rule, can't immediately see why not.

Basic 4+ save (3+ if you can manage to park your enormous boat in terrain)

Doughty Champion

Superlative Sailors

You are never going to get all 3 (mortal wounds bypass the 4+) but all the same you get multi-layered saves against anything. Which is very tanky.

 

[Aezeal]

Should be the next rule of 1 though.. only 1 bonus save allowed. THought it was a rule already.. guess not then.. but still think it should be.

[OlDirtyCosta]

4 hours ago, BigMattJones said:

This is from the FAQ:

In the Kharadron Overlords book in the artifact tables it says "A Kharadron Overlords Hero can take". So 'Hero' is the only keyword and 'Kharadron Overlords' is referring to allegiance? So that means the Venator doesn't need the Kharadron Overlords keyword, just the Hero keyword and Kharadron Overlords allegiance?

Page 125 of the Kharadron Overlords book states how the Allegiance  works with a warscroll.  That should clear up any issues people are having.

 

[yarrickson]

1 hour ago, tokek said:

I think you would be better off making your Ironclad your general and taking Doughty Champion. If Barak Ziflin that gives you a 4+ save, an additional 5+ against wounds/mortal wounds and then finally a 6+ against mortal wounds. Pretty tanky.

Feels quite appropriate for Barak Ziflin - the flagship being the centre of their force.

Sadly ironclad isn't a hero so can't have doughty champion. :-(

[OlDirtyCosta]

 

10 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

Sadly ironclad isn't a hero so can't have doughty champion. :-(

You choose a model not a hero model.  A gryph hound could be your general.

[yarrickson]

15 minutes ago, OlDirtyCosta said:

 

You choose a model not a hero model.  A gryph hound could be your general.

I didn't say it couldn't be your general.....

See pic below. Ironclad can't have a KO command trait. 

[OlDirtyCosta]

I didn't say it couldn't be your general.....
See pic below. Ironclad can't have a KO command trait. 

I stand corrected:)

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[Volund]

Vanilla Order does not limit you to a hero though. Must have been an oversight that they corrected in future publications. In the meantime, you can still have master of defense and 5 other 6+ extra saves

[Thomas Lyons]

4 hours ago, FractalRain said:

If I recall correctly, I thought the Prospector trait indicated that the unit has to be wholly within the terrain?  That indicated to me that the entire unit had to be in/on it, which is much harder with large units or even multiple units.  Did I read that wrong?

As noted by Dez, it has to be "within" or "on".  Just as a unit is "within X inches" if at least one model is within that range, it follows that a unit with at least 1 model on the terrain is "on" that terrain.  If it only said "within", then the whole unit would have to be on the terrain piece.

 

5 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Hmmm stringing that far will make them less effective in some regards.. but quite a lot of armies could still kill khemist there.

Not really.  I just ran a Chaos army and it was fairly easy to stretch a line across almost the entire center of the table and back to the back field with only 28 chaos warriors.  You have 40 of each of these Company, and even then you can have the first model 8" off the buffing support.  Obviously this all will depend if the enemy has alternative deployment, to which you would adjust accordingly.  If they can drop in your back field, you would be more intentional to zone more completely for example.  It should be fairly easy to keep the enemy at least 24"+ away from your characters.  Anything that will be a long ranged threat would likely get the volleys of Light Skyhooks, possibly even the Frigate bomb.  

Regarding making them less effective.  You only need a 2 lines of melee, your line of shooters, and then a tail back to your command.  Your shooting effectiveness, which is your real damage output in the list, will be untouched until 28 Company die in each unit.  Those 51 Light Skyhooks against optimal targets will put out 31 rend -2 wounds (2 damage on average for each that goes through).  Against suboptimal targets (non-hero or monster, non flier), 17 rend -2 wounds (2 damage on average for each that goes through).  Even against the best alpha striking lists, you'll probably have two round of full shooting effectiveness (since these units are battleshock immune).  Most armies in the game can't sustain two rounds of that shooting (assuming round 1 is picking off optimal targets and the second round of shooting is weakening the key RnF units).  Woe be to any monster/hero heavy army that stumbles upon this list.  This is all obviously without the airdrop Frigate would is going to annihilate the unit it comes down on.      

[Volund]

And technically you dont have to have the whole string the whole time. As soon as you get your hooks where you want them, you are free to kill off the models that make up the chain and only leave the guy who is closest to the khemist then you just dont move the unit any more. It would look a little weird to have a group of skyhooks like 15" away from that other guy who is the same unit and making buffs apply, but that is the way the rules/FAQ are written!

[Naflem]

14 hours ago, BowserDelta said:

Are you talking about how it says you CAN paint your minis to arrange them to one of the 6 major ports? Big word being can? I'll paint mine however I want, and use whichever port I want, and no one... not even a TO is gonna say otherwise. I guarantee is 

I'll say right from the start that my group of mates that I usually play with say they're not worried about the paint or paint scheme, at least for now as I'm deciding what I like with the KO army, but according to the book on that page your talking about it is pretty clear that the rules say you have to paint your army like the appropriate skyport to get it's benefits.  Sure, it says, "You can organize your collection of Kharadron Overlords miniatures as a fleet from one of the major skyports simply by painting it in the sky ports colours.." but the next paragraph continues "When you organize your collection to be a fleet from a specific sky port it benefits from additional types of rules, which are explained below... [the book then goes on to explain generally explain the various benefits that one gets from the sky ports including a defined code, bonus abilities, bonus command traits and artifacts, and additional war scroll battalion rules, and it notes that the specific rules for each ports are on the following pages].  After all that, the book explains that alternatively, you "can choose to organize your collection into a sky port of your own devising" and then says to refer to page 99 to select your article, amendement, and footnote for your own sky port.     

 

So, while I think it's kind of stupid and heavy handed, it is quite clear that you get to benefit from the port specific rules by "organizing your collection of miniatures to be a fleet from a specific sky-port" and you organize your collection of miniatures to be a fleet from a specific sky-port by "painting it in the sky-port's colors."  ergo, to get the rules you have to paint the right scheme.  

You do not have to paint your models that way (it does say can) but if you don't then you don't get to use any special major port rules and you rather, under the "endless skis" section, get to use the vanilla code "rules presented on page 99."