State of meta

[Thor]

Theres a -1 to hit prayer?

-1 to hit them comes  from the paladin  unit in front of them. Coupled  with the castellant  lantern  to reroll 6 on hit should  make them quite resistent. On top of + 2 saves  healing on 5 + . But I do see your  point . And I can't vouch  for this  setup  100% but it did mess up a kurnoth  spam  list. That said. I havent  used  it against  Kunnin or 18 skyfires. I might  do some math... it's also 240  shots  from Kunnin  right  ? (Lol)

[PJetski]

17 minutes ago, Gauche said:

The output from the army just isn't that great and depending on the build it can have a lot of Scenario issues. It's the fair version of Kunnin' Rukk, it has requirements. SCE also generally struggle with what the higher end shooting lists bring. Very hard to get the -1 to Hit Prayer off without throwing that model away and using other Prayers to deliver him, Mirror Shield doesn't have a real powerhouse to go on except a Star Drake but those are a bit overpriced. Mortal Wounds from Magic or Shooting are a big issue for any SCE list and that is the in thing right now.

I've personally played quite a few shooting heavy SCE builds and had no issues but that's anecdotal. My point is not that they're weak, just that I don't feel they fit into the existing power curve at a top position. But I love being wrong. :]

Have you played against an Aetherstrike Force with 12 Longstrikes?

It makes the Kunnin Rukk look like a pile of garbage

[Gauche]

It's not an actual Prayer but it's the Cleric guys default power, one of them. d3 Mortal Wounds and -1 to Hit I believe.

I can see it working well against Kurnoth, although I don't know how either of you kill the others models with any efficiency. Kunnin' Rukk is 240 shots before casualties and will be packing at least 2 Thundertusks for the competitive builds. Either that or two Kunnin' Rukks.

[Gauche]

Just now, PJetski said:

Have you played against an Aetherstrike Force with 12 Longstrikes?

It makes the Kunnin Rukk look like a pile of garbage

How? Their output isn't impressive to me and they're far more one-dimensional. We can disagree all day I'm just asking what it does that's so game breaking beyond what the Warscrolls says and if it's so good why isn't it a thing yet? SCE are very popular. I like to know what's going on.

[Thor]

Just now, Gauche said:

It's not an actual Prayer but it's the Cleric guys default power, one of them. d3 Mortal Wounds and -1 to Hit I believe.

I can see it working well against Kurnoth, although I don't know how either of you kill the others models with any efficiency. Kunnin' Rukk is 240 shots before casualties and will be packing at least 2 Thundertusks for the competitive builds. Either that or two Kunnin' Rukks.

Oh i would  love  to play  that list  ! Im unsure  Who would  win ! It would  depend  on Who got their  shots  off first  i think. Throwing  480 shots  into  raptors  would  actually heal them. So it's  up  to the thundertusks

[Thor]

2 minutes ago, Gauche said:

How? Their output isn't impressive to me and they're far more one-dimensional. We can disagree all day I'm just asking what it does that's so game breaking beyond what the Warscrolls says and if it's so good why isn't it a thing yet? SCE are very popular. I like to know what's going on.

The thing  with the ætherstrike  is That you can shoot  in your hero  phase.  And you also  get to shoot  at a unit  wiping  off  one Your units. So you protect  the raptors  and punish  other targets.

[Thor]

I.e you shoot  the judicators  ? 12 longstrike shots.  Shoot  the hero?  12 longstrike shots etc.

Btw how does rolling that  many dice  feel like ? or do you use an average  ?

[Gauche]

Just now, Thor said:

The thing  with the ætherstrike  is That you can shoot  in your hero  phase.  And you also  get to shoot  at a unit  wiping  off  one Your units. So you protect  the raptors  and punish  other targets.

Isn't it ONE unit? And the target has to be within 12" of the birds? Even if the Raptors were in a block their output isn't high enough. If they're grouped they're SUPER vulnerable to Mortal Wounds and demand your entire list support them, also they need a favorable board. How does the list take ground? It won't shoot an army off the table. It's bad in most Scenarios, at least the present ones. I'm aware of what the list does, as I said I don't think it competes with the bleeding edge top three gunlines. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to proxy all those armies and jam games out, although I'd like to.

I think it's a good list but has a lot of holes, based on my reading of the Warscrolls and my knowledge of the game. That's just my opinion though, if it's so amazing I hope people start going out and stomping faces with it. I always want the best to rise to the top because it leads to interesting discussions.

[TrexPushups]

The thing  with the ætherstrike  is That you can shoot  in your hero  phase.  And you also  get to shoot  at a unit  wiping  off  one Your units. So you protect  the raptors  and punish  other targets.

Ooo

2 for the price of 1 blood tithe points! What a bargain!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thor]

3 minutes ago, Gauche said:

Isn't it ONE unit? And the target has to be within 12" of the birds? Even if the Raptors were in a block their output isn't high enough. If they're grouped they're SUPER vulnerable to Mortal Wounds and demand your entire list support them, also they need a favorable board. How does the list take ground? It won't shoot an army off the table. It's bad in most Scenarios, at least the present ones. I'm aware of what the list does, as I said I don't think it competes with the bleeding edge top three gunlines. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to proxy all those armies and jam games out, although I'd like to.

I think it's a good list but has a lot of holes, based on my reading of the Warscrolls and my knowledge of the game. That's just my opinion though, if it's so amazing I hope people start going out and stomping faces with it. I always want the best to rise to the top because it leads to interesting discussions.

Very  good  point  about  the scenarios. Havent  thought  much  about  those tbh. And point  about  weakness  to mortal  wounds  is 100% accurate. Im  theorcrafting  this  vs  other "meta lists" since  i can't  play  against  all of them. Mainly  the 18 skyfires list  and Kunnin . Which  i feel  should  go in favor  on the Aetherstrike. Though  im positive  stormfiends-sayl will beat  the ******  out of it.

[Gauche]

I agree that on paper it's good against Kurnoth and Skyfires provided you can guarantee you get the first turn. Both of those armies will alpha you before any buffs go up and not every table has Cover for a 12 man unit on medium bases. If that unit gets Battleshocked off the table you lose instantly and they're extremely vulnerable to that. It's also pretty much impossible to be in shooting range if you go first but at least you can get the buffs up.

Having a big Battalion is great for going first though.

[Thor]

1 minute ago, Gauche said:

I agree that on paper it's good against Kurnoth and Skyfires provided you can guarantee you get the first turn. Both of those armies will alpha you before any buffs go up and not every table has Cover for a 12 man unit on medium bases. If that unit gets Battleshocked off the table you lose instantly and they're extremely vulnerable to that. It's also pretty much impossible to be in shooting range if you go first but at least you can get the buffs up.

Having a big Battalion is great for going first though.

How  many deployment drops  is the skyfires  ? List  i"m working  with now  is 3 Drops. The general  Castellent acts  as cover  with his  command trait.

Any how. I do believe aetherstrike  will  be a thing in the future. More testing  required.  

[PJetski]

12 minutes ago, Gauche said:

It won't shoot an army off the table.

You clearly haven't played against it yet, or at least a refined version of it

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

Very  good  point  about  the scenarios. Havent  thought  much  about  those tbh. And point  about  weakness  to mortal  wounds  is 100% accurate. Im  theorcrafting  this  vs  other "meta lists" since  i can't  play  against  all of them. Mainly  the 18 skyfires list  and Kunnin . Which  i feel  should  go in favor  on the Aetherstrike. Though  im positive  stormfiends-sayl will beat  the ******  out of it.

Longstrikes are 30" range. Sayl + Stormfiends is only 26". Only way to lose this matchup is if you make mistakes.

6 minutes ago, Gauche said:

I agree that on paper it's good against Kurnoth and Skyfires provided you can guarantee you get the first turn. Both of those armies will alpha you before any buffs go up and not every table has Cover for a 12 man unit on medium bases. If that unit gets Battleshocked off the table you lose instantly and they're extremely vulnerable to that. It's also pretty much impossible to be in shooting range if you go first but at least you can get the buffs up.

Having a big Battalion is great for going first though.

What "buffs"? Everything except the Castellant buff is a passive, persistent effect. Going second is actually great for Aetherstrike because it lets you move the birds 2d6 in the enemy charge phase and get into position to shoot in your hero phase.

[Gauche]

Just now, PJetski said:

You clearly haven't played against it yet, or at least a refined version of it

Longstrikes are 30" range. Sayl + Stormfiends is only 26". Only way to lose this matchup is if you make mistakes.

What "buffs"? Everything except the Castellant buff is a passive, persistent effect. Going second is actually great for Aetherstrike because it lets you move the birds 2d6 in the enemy charge phase and get into position to shoot in your hero phase.

I've said my part on the issue, I have nothing else further to say that's constructive. If the list is so good, I hope someone goes out and gets big results with it. Until then I see a lot of weaknesses which obviously isn't a shared opinion. :] Maybe someone can write a Primer on the list that breaks it down.

[Thor]

1 minute ago, Gauche said:

I've said my part on the issue, I have nothing else further to say that's constructive. If the list is so good, I hope someone goes out and gets big results with it. Until then I see a lot of weaknesses which obviously isn't a shared opinion. :] Maybe someone can write a Primer on the list that breaks it down.

Yeah.  We will wait  and see.  This topic  shouldent  be centered  around  aetherstrike anyway

So the New khorne  ? Doesnt  seems  to have a lot  protection  in the shooty  heavy  meta eh ?;) 

[Thor]

24 minutes ago, Auticus said:

No the new khorne doesn't do anything to protect you from a shooty heavy meta.  It has some formations that boost attacks but those formations won't be seen in small or even moderate sized games.

Their fun factor seems through the  roof.  But yeah... without  turn  1 charges or shooting resilience.

[BaldoBeardo]

Competitive players are going to zero in on the most effective units to take. Or worse, army.
That's generally what drives the meta.

And what led to edition after edition of WFB getting worse and worse.
Because you never 'fix' a meta. You just force it somewhere else.
'Fix' shooting, and within months you will have a group of all-conquering CC armies. Then you 'fix' CC, and now magic and abilities are the issue. And so on.

So I'm really hoping GHB2 does naff all to the rules themselves, and just tinkers with points values of the worst offenders. If the intent is a new GHB each year, more than enough time to figure out if it made a difference.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[daedalus81]

Do we have all the details from the BoK book?