Lord Biscuit Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Aye, unless for some reason your not assigning all the wounds to shielded models I can't see why I wouldn't just roll for all the wounds that would be assigned. I can't see why these wounds would be assigned elsewhere. 5 Orcs = 10 dice or 9 if one is wounded. It just makes sense to streamline the process like this so we don't spend an age rolling dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 @tolstedt @Lord Biscuit I think we are kinda saying the same thing. I'm just not convinced it's right to allocate 10 unsaved wounds to, for example, 2 Ardboyz with shields. Does that make sense, not sure I'm explaining myself very well!? And yeh, individual dice rolling is certainly not practical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I generally took it as you rolled to save the attack, it goes through the damage gets allocated. The shield tried to block, failed, and the giant sword/hammer etc passed through that ardboy into the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Aye. I never said necessarily to allocate 10 damage to 2 hardboys, but rather first allocate 4, see how those checks are resolved, then allocate additional wounds until they fail/succeed all the checks. Though that being said, it sounds a little awkward now because using a certain point of view one could allocate ALL the wounds to two hardboys, then resolve the wounds that would make them really effective even though it isn't as intended. That wording would only ever work if the wounds were allotted first. Which is why I am more convienced that the shields are only rolled for the attacks that make it through. Otherwise one shield could do a lot of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Yup, we are on the same page @Lord Biscuit...thought so, but I don't think I was being very clear before. Doesn't help that the rules are arguably convoluted in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 The 1-in-6 save seems very underwhelming. Should have been a +1 save to make it a much more viable option to complete with the others. It also would give the Ardboys a more clear niche. Conveniently, I don't think that the Ardboy shields look all that great anyway. A bit small for my liking and even a bit silly looking. I'm about to start building my Ardboys tonight and plan on 50/50 choppa/smasha and big choppa. Both of these options seem good to me and which is better will depend on what you get to throw them against. One doesn't stand out as being better all that much more frequently than the other, the best that I can tell. If you have a small circle of opponents it might make sense to do the math for your meta. Otherwise, rule of cool (with no shields). It was pointed out to me long ago that most of the big choppa boys could never swing their arms past the helmets with big horns! I plan to arm the little horn helmets with big choppa and big horn helmets with choppa/smasha. Guessing that will get me around 50/50 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Schmidt Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I like @Warboss Gorbolg's thinking, but I am probably going to do the opposite. I've been seriously considering doing a unit will full shields benefitting the role I will likely use them for, taking up space and holding objectives. Visually I like the idea of a Orruk Testudo or Shield Wall as well, which could be fun to model up. I may make a unit that is designed more for killing in time well. The Ardboys are a nice and flexible unit. Does anyone run the Black Orruk Boss, as an aside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 16 hours ago, Aaron Schmidt said: I like @Warboss Gorbolg's thinking, but I am probably going to do the opposite. I've been seriously considering doing a unit will full shields benefitting the role I will likely use them for, taking up space and holding objectives. Visually I like the idea of a Orruk Testudo or Shield Wall as well, which could be fun to model up. I may make a unit that is designed more for killing in time well. The Ardboys are a nice and flexible unit. Does anyone run the Black Orruk Boss, as an aside? Yeh my next unit of 10 is going to be all shields, used solely as a defensive unit to hold objectives...when even a 1 in 6 save could prove decisive. This is just theory, it might be rubbish in practise. I use the Black Orc Big Boss in all my lists at present, you can find him referred to as the Ardnob in my posts. So far I've mostly been using the Slaughter-choppa, but will predominately be running him with dual Deff Choppas at Clash this weekend (my model works for either weapon choice). He might get a go as General this weekend...but that's something for another topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Schmidt Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I was considering the same thing! Leaving the Megaboss at home feels wrong, but I think the Ardnob (stolen) would be a good general for 1k games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 Just now, Aaron Schmidt said: I was considering the same thing! Leaving the Megaboss at home feels wrong, but I think the Ardnob (stolen) would be a good general for 1k games. Ardnob is a thing. Go with it. The Megaboss is still a great choice for 1k. You can get him, a Warchanter and an Ironfist with 4 units of your choice in for 1k on the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Schmidt Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I'll have to cobble together a dope model for one. I'm inspired now. Speaking of modelling, I realise that 80% of my desire to do Ardboys with shields is the modelling opportunity. I have been having fun imitating the newer style Orruk armor with plasticard and putty. I'll share some pics on here soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 18 minutes ago, Aaron Schmidt said: I'll have to cobble together a dope model for one. I'm inspired now. Speaking of modelling, I realise that 80% of my desire to do Ardboys with shields is the modelling opportunity. I have been having fun imitating the newer style Orruk armor with plasticard and putty. I'll share some pics on here soon. Nice, I'd like to see that. I'll send you a pic of my Ardnob at some point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Schmidt Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hot. #alwaysTimeForDickPics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forestreveries Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Ardnob is a thing. Go with it. The Megaboss is still a great choice for 1k. You can get him, a Warchanter and an Ironfist with 4 units of your choice in for 1k on the nose.Glad it's catching on! [emoji12]It's totally an anagram of my name [emoji849]Aaron B Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LortOlle Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I've said this in a few of these threads but I'll add it to this one as well. I see no reason (except aesthetics) to pick 2-handers. The -1 rend is nice but the extra attack from the two onehanders will outperform the -1 rend on anything with less than 3+ save and they will do the same against 3+. There is only two cases where taking them will be better in a game and that is if you face mostly 2+ saves or you face something like soulblight with blood knight battleline. The +1 save against rend - will make twohanders better. To add a few shields in the backline is a good idea but the difference is marginal. It would be decent if you run blocks of 20 where you know a few wont be in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 16 hours ago, Aaron Schmidt said: Hot. #alwaysTimeForDickPics You know it! 4 hours ago, Forestreveries said: Glad it's catching on! It's totally an anagram of my name Aaron B You can tell I've only had 3 hours sleep...just spent longer than I should've trying to work out if that was true!! 33 minutes ago, LortOlle said: I see no reason (except aesthetics) to pick 2-handers. The -1 rend is nice but the extra attack from the two onehanders will outperform the -1 rend on anything with less than 3+ save and they will do the same against 3+. Yeh, I think you're probably right when it comes down to 2 hander vs dual wield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 and I gave a lot of boys to handers. nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LortOlle Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On 2016-10-28 at 10:34 AM, Chris Tomlin said: Yeh, I think you're probably right when it comes down to 2 hander vs dual wield. Well. Statistically one handers are better but like I said, aesthetics, 2+ armor heavy meta or "just cuz" are all valid reasons to do whatever you feel like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfSigmar Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm taking 3 units of 10 to Blood and Glory. Think I'm having on unit just Big Choppas, another Big Choppas and a couple of Weapon and Shield. The last unit that I've still to build will be dual wield just to see what happens. I tried to build some of the shield models but they looked pretty horrendous compared to the normal guys. Think it's because you're just cutting bits down and sticking a shield on the hand, doesn't look 'natural' so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I think the shields are a bit small aesthetically. Guess I want them to be the equivalent of tower shields for orcs or something else large and bulky. It would be interesting if they had paired the underwhelming 1-in-6 save with a third attack in the form of a weaker shield-bash (4+,5+,-,1). That would be kind of fluffy. Ardboys are offensively minded even with a shield. The modest save and attack could represent that in combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I think those weedy shields were a last minute sprue filler, I agree they should have proppa big and bulky shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I guess another thing that bothers me about the shields is that it seems to be the most situational option for Ardboys. In theory, I think situational units can work in cheaper armies (Gitmob, Moonclan, Free Peoples, etc.). However, as I'm building my Ironjawz, I question whether you can afford such units in an elite force like Ironjawz. My guess is that there are just not enough points to go around for units that you don't think are strong in wide variety of scenarios. I look forward to hearing how the shields are working for people in actual games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Also what do the command count as being equipped with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 My understanding is that you get to choose what the command is equipped with in the case of Ardboys. I intend to go choppa and smasha with all the command and therefore have given the icon/banner boys the "offhand" weapons. I assume you stick a shield on the "offhand" as appropriate and maybe an empty offhand for great choppa as they just bash stuff two-handed with the icon or banner. That's all if you want to go WYSIWYG, which is not necessary as far as I am aware. I'm assuming that it's good sportsmanship to write down what the command has before the game starts. There is also an extra axe without a hand attached that I'll be adding to the back of the drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LortOlle Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The FAQ states that command has the same equipment as they had "before becoming" command. As in all other units the command will have the same as the rest of the unit. In the case of the ardboys you can pick their weapons, then becoming command. Either explain to your opponent what weapons they have or somehow show on the model, as in glue spare weapons on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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