Equipping the Ardboyz!

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey there boyz,

Whilst assembling my Orruks, Da Black Sunz, I came across a bit of a conundrum with the Ardboyz.

Normally when equipping a unit you just have one decision on what to equip your guys with across the board (give or take the cool special weapons that are popping up in AoS). This decision can be based on aesthetics or rules, I probably use a little of each myself if I'm honest.

However the Ardboyz are pretty unique in the fact that each individual model is its own decision as you can freely mix across the unit (presumably relating to their rules in WFB). I'm a big fan of two handed/great weapons so I knew I wanted to get in plenty of those, but I'm just wondering what load outs people have gone for or are considering?

So far I've built 10, which I will be running tonight. I went for 7 great weapons and 3 with shields. However, in error I have put shields on the standard and musician which is clearly a bad choice if the intention is to try and take saves on those guys first...so I think I'll need to remodel that. The difference between +1 attack for the duel choppas and -1 rend on the great weapons is an interesting choice to make, but aesthetics aside, I think I prefer the rend.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts. Does it differ with different unit sizes?

Megaboss Chris

[DeadlySarcasm]

I have 30 that I built in 8th which have a mix of weapons, simply because the box doesn't give you enough of each option to make 10 of one type (back when they were packaged as 10s).

I never bothered with shields then, and if I was building now I wouldn't. Black orcs should be dead killy, and are already pretty tough to shift without shields. If I had the choice to rebuild now, and they had enough options in the box, I would definitely build all with 2 handers, as rend is far more valuable than extra attacks in my mind.

I have remodelled a few of my old models since stripping them back to give me 3 banners and 3 drummers (previously had one of each as would run one big block). There are no benefits for larger unit sizes with the Ard Boyz like there are with other flavours of orcs, so I think running a couple of small units gives you the most options (i personally intend to run all 30 as much as possible, I've always loved black orcs, and played them consistently even when they were "overpriced" in 8th). This might also mean that I have enough to have one unit of just 2hs, one unit of dual choppas, and a mixed unit each with their own command.

[Sangfroid]

I've been using 30 as part of the ironjaw big mob formations (insert tears of sadness here at the loss of this and the basic black Orc big boss, don't even mention Grimgor...) 

Prior to the rule change I was running 5 great weapons in each unit as the back rank as it was easier to fit everybody in so most could fight at once, I've played one game with the the new nerfed rules (losing rend on their choppas is a disgrace!!!) and carried on with the same set up it worked fine, though I might try running a unit of just great weapons, a unit of just 2 choppas, and a unit of single choppas and shields next time  (I have enough spare shields to model if needed) so they each would fulfill a different use that way. 

[amysrevenge]

Sad for your life - my Grimgor still works fine.  I mean, he's still exactly as millenia-dead as he was back when AoS started, but that didn't stop me then and it won't stop me now either.

 

I'd do 3/10 with shields, 7/10 with great weapons, no two weapons if I was starting from zero.  Rend is king.  The 15 I have built so far do not meet that standard, as I built all great weapon ones at first and didn't do any shields  - I think it's something like 13 great weapons and 2 two weapons and zero shields.  But I've got 35 more to build someday to even out the numbers.

[Mikester1487]

I'm going to be the oddball here, but I have 20 (+ 15 more soon) of them using shields.  Their main purpose is to protect my weirdnob and hold points on the board.  I'm not really concerned about them being killy.  I figured let the brutes go knock stuff out they're a bit beefier for the job anyway.  

 

 

[mhsellwood]

I have been contemplating forming my own Waagh! so I have done a bit of looking at the Ardboyz and the options you have their.

Part of the decision is basically around what you want the unit to do. If you want them to just tank wounds, hold objectives, pin units etc. then the shield is clearly the best option. If you want them to blend light infantry (i.e. less than a 4+ save) then mathematically the twin choppas give you best bang for buck. If you want them to  take on 4+ or better then you want the great choppa.

I think the answer therefore is... it depends (Boo hiss). If your opponent likes running soft guys and shooting (maybe a Skaven or Wood Elf player?) then a mix of mainly shields and two weapons with the occasional great choppa for hard targets would be ideal. If he runs mainly heavy units and characters then mainly great choppas with a few twin choppas would be best.

So perhaps the answer is who do you battle, and what kind of missions do you play?

[Aaron Schmidt]

I'm planning on going 30-50% shields

[Dangermouse425]

On 13/05/2016 at 3:54 PM, Aaron Schmidt said:

I'm planning on going 30-50% shields

I think this this is probably the right level, 1 in 3, or 1 in 2 with shields, supported by Big Choppas for that tasty -1 Rend. 

[Aaron Schmidt]

I think this this is probably the right level, 1 in 3, or 1 in 2 with shields, supported by Big Choppas for that tasty -1 Rend. 

For sure. I like that breakdown. Half the reason I'm giving a bunch of my guys shields is because I have a way to model them that I like.

[Chris Tomlin]

Thanks for all the replies here boyz, great to hear all your thoughts on the matter. An interesting topic for sure.

It does seem that a fair few people are agreeing with my initial assessment of around 3 shields and 7 Big Choppas per 10 Ardboyz. Having only played one game I have not yet formed a valid opinion on whether or not this setup works.

My next question is, how do you equip the command models and does it make a difference?

As I stated in the OP I modelled my Boss with a Big Choppa (I think this is defo legit) and then the standard and drummer with shields. This is almost definite a poor choice as am I right it thinking we'd be taking the saves on the shield armed boyz first to try and prevent early casualties? I dunno, could be wrong on that?

Overall I'm not actually sure what I think on the Ardboyz and the purpose they fulfil within the army. 5 Brutes for the same prices is fightier which leads me to think I'm only including them for extra bodies (for the Shaman buff etc) and indeed for variety aesthetically. Would it be better to include basic Orruks (they still boost the Shaman right? No book to hand)? Maybe bow armed for some ranged threat?

Let me know your thoughts!

Cheers x

[Aaron Schmidt]

This is what I'm trying to figure out. I like the idea that they are the common foot soldiers for the Orruk army. I've not played enough to know if they can combo, take up space, screen or what. Can they help set up the charges you want? With a lot of shields can they tarpit? Anyway, I have a cool conversion in mind for them so I'm making a pile of them.

[Soulsmith]

On 5/17/2016 at 2:47 PM, Chris Tomlin said:

Overall I'm not actually sure what I think on the Ardboyz and the purpose they fulfill within the army. 5 Brutes for the same prices is fightier which leads me to think I'm only including them for extra bodies (for the Shaman buff etc) and indeed for variety aesthetically. Would it be better to include basic Orruks (they still boost the Shaman right? No book to hand)? Maybe bow armed for some ranged threat?

Whilst I haven't actually got a game in, in theory I would think that you might be right, that as a tough, stabby unit the brutes do the job better, and in terms of bodies to do the choppin', I would have thought savages more useful than regular boyz? Not to mention they have vastly superior models and can still be equipped for ranged clobberin'.

[Dr_Keenbean]

So I looked at them a bit and I can see a few advantages of Ardboyz over Brutes, depending on the situation.

• Numbers. The Shaman gets a buff based on the number of nearby models not units.
• They're more resilient to Battleshock if you take the Icon of Gork.
• The Ardfist Battalion: So long as the Warchanter is alive, all wiped-out units of Ardboyz get to come back on the board at full strength. (!!!)
• You can kit them out any way you want; you are not restricted to a single loadout for the unit.
• Their shield 'save' isn't a saving roll and happens at wound allocation which means they can negate Mortal Wounds.

[Sangfroid]

Ardboyz are meat shields that can dish out a bit of damage against the right targets, the +2 bravery when up close and personal should mean that you pass most but the extreme bravery test. 4+ doesn't seem much but that's 40 non rending wounds to take them down on average, throw in a mystic shield or cover (or both) and they "should" easily survive a couple of rounds against most enemy, it's only the likes of Nagash or a stonehorn (if they get lucky with attacks) that will smash thru them due to the multi damage and rend -2 or -3. Also mortal wound spam but then again not much has a defence against that. 

I use them to hold up the right targets so I can get the Ironguts or Gordrakk or giant stuck in and limit the attacks back on them, they are also useful against low armour save no rend things or if -1 rend make sure I shield them (skullcrushers, dragon princes, demis etc...) as they have a  load of attacks for 10 models (20-30 normally 40-60 with command abilities) and will grind these things down over time especially if you get the charge off. 

They are not game winners but a solid choice if deployed right.  I like normal Orruk boyz too but find these need to be in a larger unit (30/40) and defiantly have a mystic shield and most often inspiring prescence too, to really outshine the ardboyz (though in that combo you do control a lot of board) 

 

[Aaron Schmidt]

21 minutes ago, Dr_Keenbean said:

So I looked at them a bit and I can see a few advantages of Ardboyz over Brutes, depending on the situation.

• Numbers. The Shaman gets a buff based on the number of nearby models not units.
• They're more resilient to Battleshock if you take the Icon of Gork.
• The Ardfist Battalion: So long as the Warchanter is alive, all wiped-out units of Ardboyz get to come back on the board at full strength. (!!!)
• You can kit them out any way you want; you are not restricted to a single loadout for the unit.
• Their shield 'save' isn't a saving roll and happens at wound allocation which means they can negate Mortal Wounds.

Great assessment. This is the type of thing I wanted to do but I don't have enough AoS under my belt for the expertise. I can see them blocking up space in certain cases. Taking charges so that your more hitty units can countercharge? Again, I have little experience so take this with a grain of salt.  Can't wait to try some different builds!

[Naishy]

I have had a lot of success with a unit of twenty, dual weilding (all metal and about a decade old) backed up by and Orruk Warboss with a Waaagh banner and a Warchanter.  If you use the Warboss as your general his command ability gives +1 attacks and the Warchanters +1 to hit gives you  a potential of 80 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, re-rolling 1s.  All packed in 40 4+ save wounds.

I have found they tend to make short work of most things they touch.

[Soulsmith]

1 hour ago, Naishy said:

I have had a lot of success with a unit of twenty, dual weilding (all metal and about a decade old) backed up by and Orruk Warboss with a Waaagh banner and a Warchanter.  If you use the Warboss as your general his command ability gives +1 attacks and the Warchanters +1 to hit gives you  a potential of 80 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, re-rolling 1s.  All packed in 40 4+ save wounds.

I have found they tend to make short work of most things they touch.

This makes sense, especially if you already have them. Do they fair well against tough nasties like Sylvaneth?

[Sadysaneto]

Whats up with this "orcs with shield" trend?

 

I must be too orky, but i really see no use for shields on my orcs.

 

 

[Nico]

Defensive buffs are usually stronger than offensive buffs - play against an army on -1 to hit for a while. The value comes in having a unit of say 20 Ardboyz and half of them shield at the back and half of them Double Choppa/Big Choppa at the front. As they get pew pewed, you can mitigate losses on the shield models, then once you get into combat the  Double Choppa/Big Choppa ones are all alive. It's a really sweet option as normally you cannot have both options in one unit (and you often will not get every model into range in the first pile in).

[Chris Tomlin]

2 hours ago, Naishy said:

I have had a lot of success with a unit of twenty, dual weilding (all metal and about a decade old) backed up by and Orruk Warboss with a Waaagh banner and a Warchanter.  If you use the Warboss as your general his command ability gives +1 attacks and the Warchanters +1 to hit gives you  a potential of 80 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, re-rolling 1s.  All packed in 40 4+ save wounds.

I have found they tend to make short work of most things they touch.

That sounds like a nice little set up. What does the rest of the army look like around it as I note it would need Generic Destruction Batteline? This opens up some nice other options though, such as cheap a Moonclan Shaman to shield them!

46 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said:

Whats up with this "orcs with shield" trend?

I must be too orky, but i really see no use for shields on my orcs.

I'm sure you are joking haha  

[Sadysaneto]

6 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

 

I'm sure you are joking and trying to be "fluffy"!  

No, im really not.

 

tho, sometimes, fluff and mechanics blend.

 

You are takin away one attack. We re talking 50% of your attacks if you go for rend,  for a chance to roll 6 and ignore a wound.

 

And you can have bravery 8, on a save of 4+ with 2 wounds each model.

 

Like i said, it maybe be that im too orky, i may be too "agressive", but i can´t see the point in doing that.

 

[Sadysaneto]

2 hours ago, Naishy said:

I have had a lot of success with a unit of twenty, dual weilding (all metal and about a decade old) backed up by and Orruk Warboss with a Waaagh banner and a Warchanter.  If you use the Warboss as your general his command ability gives +1 attacks and the Warchanters +1 to hit gives you  a potential of 80 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+, re-rolling 1s.  All packed in 40 4+ save wounds.

I have found they tend to make short work of most things they touch.

thing is - if you go for warboss, you´ll need to spend at least 300 points more on generic battleline.

[Chris Tomlin]

@Sadysaneto - Interesting. I like that there are differing opinions and indeed applications for the Ardboyz, makes them a super versatile unit. I guess to me I see them as the stoic objective holders of the army. For raw power and damage output, I prefer my Brutes.

There maybe some mileage in a middle ground as suggested by @Nico, not totally sold on that though tbh. At the end of the day I need to knuckle down and assemble/paint some more Ardboyz and actually play with some different set ups. So far I've still only used 9 Huge Choppas and 1 Shield, which is just a poor poor set up.

 

[Sadysaneto]

4 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

@Sadysaneto - Interesting. I like that there are differing opinions and indeed applications for the Ardboyz, makes them a super versatile unit. I guess to me I see them as the stoic objective holders of the army. For raw power and damage output, I prefer my Brutes.

There maybe some mileage in a middle ground as suggested by @Nico, not totally sold on that though tbh. At the end of the day I need to knuckle down and assemble/paint some more Ardboyz and actually play with some different set ups. So far I've still only used 9 Huge Choppas and 1 Shield, which is just a poor poor set up.

 

maybe thats it.

Nowadays, i think ardboys are much more reliable than brutes

[Dez]

Just now, Sadysaneto said:

maybe thats it.

Nowadays, i think ardboys are much more reliable than brutes

Heresy! I feel like my Ardboyz fail to perform much in the damage department but stick around forever (playing pure Ironjawz, all with 2hander).

For those who have done the math, is it generally better to have the -1 rend or an extra attack?