Ben Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hi, I have an archive of tournament army lists at Baddice.co.uk/lists I've just updated it with the lists for my 1 day event this weekend. baddice.co.uk/…/alliance_2017_army_lists-1.pdf enjoy! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jabber Tzeentch Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Cool, if I get the chance I'll do a bit of analysis on the top lists if you like? Nothing too crazy but stuff like mortal wound output, damage output, effective wounds etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think it's quite interesting looking at the lists for Alliance 2 and seeing the surge in shooting and how the meta will change to deal with that, as well as how GW react with the next set of releases. Should give us a nice idea of themes for Heat 2 as well as things to watch out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 @The Jabber Tzeentch that would be great! @Gaz Taylor Shooting is the way to go now. 30" or stay at home Also, Heat 1 lists are in the archive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galas Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hm, the meta its like 40k, shooting its stronger than meele, for different reasons obvious. Maybe it is because this more skirmish ruleset? I really don't know. I'm more experienced in fantasy and in there, heroes, cavalry, deathstars or magic were the king depending of edition, but never shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick in York Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 As a previous 3rd/4th WHFB dwarf player, the first thing that struck me when I got into AoS (almost a year ago) was the lack of shooting options - and hills to put the gunline on. Struck me then that an army with plent of shooting options could shake things up a bit. Since then we've had Kurnoth Hunters, the orruk mass archer tournament tactics, new Stormcast etc. Seems this and the emphasis people have been placing on shooting has shuck the meta up a bit. No doubt people will be working on counters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 12 hours ago, Ben said: @Gaz Taylor Shooting is the way to go now. 30" or stay at home Boo! I know but it's very interesting to see how quickly things have shifted. But to me part of the fun is coming up with counters to this sort of thing. 1 hour ago, Nick in York said: As a previous 3rd/4th WHFB dwarf player, the first thing that struck me when I got into AoS (almost a year ago) was the lack of shooting options - and hills to put the gunline on. Struck me then that an army with plent of shooting options could shake things up a bit. Since then we've had Kurnoth Hunters, the orruk mass archer tournament tactics, new Stormcast etc. Seems this and the emphasis people have been placing on shooting has shuck the meta up a bit. No doubt people will be working on counters. I personally think the counter to these sorts of armies are Fast things (eg Stonehorns/Seekers of Slaanesh) Sneaky things (eg Stormcast Vanguard Hunters/Gutter Runners) Same/more/Better Shooting things (eg Kurnoth Hunters/Stormcast Vanguard Raptors) I suspect when the Generals Handbook 2 hits, we will see a big shake up either through some possible counters getting cheaper or different scenarios which effect shooting (night fighting or some sort of wind effect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradifer Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 As a Death player I'm certainly hoping for a future release with some shooting just for army diversity. But talking on counters to ranged in general. Certainly we can move past better counters being more ranged units. I think a neat mechanic would be a unit that has flying while charging, essentially a "jump" unit, that can jump over screening units. I imagine Crypt Flayers/Vargheists, maybe dwarf/goblin tossing, squigs, Vanguard Palladors. Other potential ideas: Specific defenses to shooting i.e. you choose overhead shields, and you get +1 save in the shooting phase. Bat Swarms, they muck up the air giving nearby shooting units -1 to hit. Units with a large pile-in, like 6" rather than 3", so they can potenially pile in past screening units, or take advantage of a mechanic that lets them fight + pile in twice. Some Wonder-Woman gauntlets that reflect shooting/spells back at the shooter, or can be redirected. As mentioned above - Rainy/windy/night time conditions that make all or just shooting units have -X to hit or wound. A spell or mechanic that allows a player to reposition enemy models (Think Death - Mind Control Gaze, Chaos - Enrage opponent to fight you in melee, Destruction - Stomp the ground and intimidate the gravity so the Kurnoth Hunters walk toward you, etc, Order - Dwarves literally using Magnets. This one is tricky because touching other people's models is an etiquette thing, so GW might word it so that the shooting player must move his models so they end X inches closer, but then they can just say "Well they're suck behind this screen here, what a shame." etc. Simply make Cavalry more relevant. A lot of people have Cavalry models, but choose to not use them because they're overpointed in general, and don't really have that hard-hitting charge feeling. Charging should probably be significantly better for their warscrolls, not slightly better. (Think lances become +1 Rend, +1 damage, +1 wound, something like that.) GHB2.0 can obviously affect unit costs which we will probably see on Kurnoth Hunters, Warpfire Stormfiends, Mourngul etc.. GHB2.0 can also add a penalty to shooting attacks if the unit is engaged in melee combat. This could potentially complicate the game more than they want, especially for units like Fulminators' Lightning Surge, which they probably can still shoot fine, but can a unit of handgunners realistically just stand there and aim perfectly while Gore Gruntas are stomping on them? Enforced LOS rules. However this can complicate the game too. Some of you more experienced guys may have input. Well that's some of my thoughts, any input? EDIT: I'm not saying to incorporate all of these, they are just ideas. Specifically I think we want a game where each faction has its own limited amount of counters for an opponent's variety of tactics. Then you have the players' army lists + scenario + player skill + Dice RNG to determine the outcome of each game. So while maybe Stormcast has shooting + teleporting into battle as primary options, maybe an IronJawz player has being fast + using a shaman to make the sky dark/rainy etc, Or a Death player can jump over screening units or use a mind control to bring the ranged units closer. They all achieve something similar, but require the units to be brought in the first place, and they aren't duplicates of each other, and they all fit flavor wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I've heard in a few places that Fantasy was a test-bed for the next edition of 40K and I can't help but feel we're in that position at the moment. I chose AOS over 40K for a preference for the prevalence of melee combat. I feel a disheartened at the minute with shooting - if the setting and meta is just going to turn into fantasy 40K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 17 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said: I feel a disheartened at the minute with shooting - if the setting and meta is just going to turn into fantasy 40K It's the nature of the beast with games that have ever evolving metas. I wouldn't be surprised that in six to twelve months we see a swing to something else due to either the Generals Handbook or due to some new unit/army coming out. With some very experienced tournament gamers working in GW, this isn't an issue I see becoming a big one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubgan Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 First of all, fantastic that someone has a list with Nagash in. But then I think my favourite list is on Page 2 (John Barwise), Going to be spending his entire game moving Blood Reavers, feel sorry for the poor guys having the dig through those buffed 40 man tar pits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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