Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[davidslv]

Am I the only one struggling understanding the wording in the Slaughterborn battalion?

"If your general is a KHORNE HERO and they are..." who's "they"? It feels that it is talking about the general in the plural form, but then it turns it into "any slaughterborn unit", so I wounder if  this means that any slaughterborn unit within 3" of the enemy units  AND within 12" of the General can charge? If that's so, don't I need to be outside of 3" to charge?

I'm confused, can someone break it down for me please?

[Kaleb Daark]

12 minutes ago, davidslv said:

Am I the only one struggling understanding the wording in the Slaughterborn battalion?

"If your general is a KHORNE HERO and they are..." who's "they"? It feels that it is talking about the general in the plural form, but then it turns it into "any slaughterborn unit", so I wounder if  this means that any slaughterborn unit within 3" of the enemy units  AND within 12" of the General can charge? If that's so, don't I need to be outside of 3" to charge?

I'm confused, can someone break it down for me please?

They refers to the general himself.  Grammatically its a binary misengender as the general can be male female, daemonic, or in slaanesh's case any combination of the above!

[Collyc]

2 hours ago, Beltrajor said:

You could alternatively run maxed murderhost and rush the board like there's no tomorrow while thirsters do their job

2d6 move every turn is crazy fast!!

8 Units of Bloodletters added comes in at exactly 2000 pts

[Aspirant Snaeper]

3 hours ago, davidslv said:

Am I the only one struggling understanding the wording in the Slaughterborn battalion?

"If your general is a KHORNE HERO and they are..." who's "they"? It feels that it is talking about the general in the plural form, but then it turns it into "any slaughterborn unit", so I wounder if  this means that any slaughterborn unit within 3" of the enemy units  AND within 12" of the General can charge? If that's so, don't I need to be outside of 3" to charge?

I'm confused, can someone break it down for me please?

As stated, "they" is a reference to the General. 

Basically, units in the Battalion can charge anything that's within 3" of your Khorne Hero General as long as the units are within charge range. This is nice since it's happening in the Hero Phase rather than the Charge Phase. But to really take effect of it, you need to combine it with the Goretide and a Mighty Lord of Khorne.

[Killax]

4 hours ago, davidslv said:

"If your general is a KHORNE HERO and they are..." who's "they"? It feels that it is talking about the general in the plural form, but then it turns it into "any slaughterborn unit", so I wounder if  this means that any slaughterborn unit within 3" of the enemy units  AND within 12" of the General can charge? If that's so, don't I need to be outside of 3" to charge?

I'm confused, can someone break it down for me please?

I think They in this case is trying to refer to the Khorne Hero AND the Slaughterborn units. It isn't the type of wording I'd use, but I understand your confusion.

So what is happening here is that if your General (must be Khorne Hero) is within 3" of an enemy unit your Slaughterborn units (within 12" of General)  can attempt to charge those enemy units (within 12"). Etc.

Hope that helps? 

[davidslv]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it

[Killax]

2 hours ago, davidslv said:

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it

No worries! I'd also like to note that @Aspirant Snaeper and I don't completely agree on one thing. That being:
"But to really take effect of it, you need to combine it with the Goretide and a Mighty Lord of Khorne."

The prime reason I don't completely agree with this is because your General does not have to be part of the Slaughterborn, has to be a Mortal Hero or Bloodbound Hero. It only has to be a Khorne Hero to be part of this effect and we have some significant Khorne Heroes. A Bloodthirster comes to mind , by large because it's: A. Fast, B. Has a large footprint (thus physically more models can be within 3" of him) and C. the Units in Slaughterborn are all decent. I do agree that the synergy chain can become amazing with the Goretide! If you like a Mighty Lord of Khorne in there you can certainly thake that small step aswell. 

 

[LordMoros]

So, with the slaughterborn, it says "the hero phase" not "your hero phase" - does that mean they can charge things in 3" of a khorne hero general in the opponents hero phase if they meet all the requirements to do so? And attack?

[LordMoros]

Additionally, can you do this slaughterborn "charge" if they are already in close combat? triggering attacks in the hero phase?

[Aspirant Snaeper]

5 hours ago, Killax said:

No worries! I'd also like to note that @Aspirant Snaeper and I don't completely agree on one thing. That being:
"But to really take effect of it, you need to combine it with the Goretide and a Mighty Lord of Khorne."

The prime reason I don't completely agree with this is because your General does not have to be part of the Slaughterborn, has to be a Mortal Hero or Bloodbound Hero. It only has to be a Khorne Hero to be part of this effect and we have some significant Khorne Heroes. A Bloodthirster comes to mind , by large because it's: A. Fast, B. Has a large footprint (thus physically more models can be within 3" of him) and C. the Units in Slaughterborn are all decent. I do agree that the synergy chain can become amazing with the Goretide! If you like a Mighty Lord of Khorne in there you can certainly thake that small step aswell. 

 

Indeed, I incorrectly implied that Slaughterborn was only effective with Goretide. 

However, the additional out-of-phase movement bonus granted with Goretide will help position your units to be within the 12" (or help them on the charge) to maximize the ability. Adding in the MLoK's own out-of-phase movement and command ability can help make your force dangerously unpredictable to your opponent. 

But certainly, combining it with a Bloodthirster (or even a Blood Throne or Daemon Prince in a cinch) to saturate your battalion with target options is an equally competitive move. 

@LordMoros I look forward to the answers of these questions and dare not attempt a response to them in my current sleep-ridden state. 

[Killax]

5 hours ago, LordMoros said:

So, with the slaughterborn, it says "the hero phase" not "your hero phase" - does that mean they can charge things in 3" of a khorne hero general in the opponents hero phase if they meet all the requirements to do so? And attack?

Multiple questions. Yes, it does mean that they can charge things in the opponents hero phase. 

Normally you cannot attack just by resolving a charge. Luckily Slaughterborn states:

Quote

Any Slaughterborn units that make successful charges in this manner can immediately pile in and each model in those units can make a single attack with one of their melee weapons during that hero phase.

Keep it mind, single attack, not the gazillion we're used to  
 

5 hours ago, LordMoros said:

Additionally, can you do this slaughterborn "charge" if they are already in close combat? triggering attacks in the hero phase?

No, normally this cannot occur. Be sure to check the charge phase for full detail:

Quote

You may not pick a unit that ran or retreated this turn, nor one that is within 3" of the enemy.

In order to preform a charge you must be elligable to preform a charge. Even though Slaughterborn does not turn phases into other phases aswell. 

Slaughterbon essentially states that you can charge outside of the charge phase if a certain condition is met. But it still does not state that it can ignore normal conditions required to preform "the move". In many cases Age of Sigmar rules are very simple, but it helps if you print down those 4 pages and lay them next to your book while looking for synergies  

[davidslv]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Multiple questions. Yes, it does mean that they can charge things in the opponents hero phase. 

Normally you cannot attack just by resolving a charge. Luckily Slaughterborn states:

Keep it mind, single attack, not the gazillion we're used to  
 

No, normally this cannot occur. Be sure to check the charge phase for full detail:

In order to preform a charge you must be elligable to preform a charge. Even though Slaughterborn does not turn phases into other phases aswell. 

Slaughterbon essentially states that you can charge outside of the charge phase if a certain condition is met. But it still does not state that it can ignore normal conditions required to preform "the move". In many cases Age of Sigmar rules are very simple, but it helps if you print down those 4 pages and lay them next to your book while looking for synergies  

I'm glad someone else asked those questions as I had them myself. The only two things I can think of are: 

- can those single attacks be buffed with the Bloodsecrator (Rage of Khorne?) since it happens in the Hero Phase,

- can the opponent fight back? I assume not because I'm attacking with a single attack per model, but would like to be sure.

Thank you

[kozokus]

1 hour ago, davidslv said:

can those single attacks be buffed with the Bloodsecrator (Rage of Khorne?) since it happens in the Hero Phase,

Nope, because the bloodsecrators only buff during the Combat phase, even if you spend the 5 tith points you wont get +1 attacks.

1 hour ago, davidslv said:

- can the opponent fight back? I assume not because I'm attacking with a single attack per model, but would like to be sure.

There is no "fight back" notion in AOS like there was in WHFB. So no.

[Killax]

@kozokus has the right of it. No to both questions   Keep in mind that a lot of rules are as straight forward as it gets:

- A single attack, can never become 2,3,4,5 etc.
- One more is never two, three, four etc. more.
- Add 1 or Substract 1 ability effects are culumative unless specifically stated otherwise. 

In any case, there is a ton of synergy within Blades of Khorne and every ability combination 'synergy chain' has a different awnser. Which is what creates the depth to Blades of Khorne that otherwise could be seen as a very easy 'only melee?!' army  

Cheers,

[kozokus]

Has anyone some sucess with the new battletome, playing with the new formations and the tith? Is there some good stories or battle reports?

[LordMoros]

The few games I've played have brought me to one undeniable conclusion. While Blades of Khorne is a fantastic book, and it has done a lot for bloodbound, AOS is a ranged game. And we are at a massive disadvantage because we have no way to defend, mitigate, or counter the absurdly powerful effect that ranged attacks and ranged mortal wounds have on the game.

Just not equipped to compete at "higher levels" of play.

[Killax]

38 minutes ago, LordMoros said:

The few games I've played have brought me to one undeniable conclusion. While Blades of Khorne is a fantastic book, and it has done a lot for bloodbound, AOS is a ranged game. And we are at a massive disadvantage because we have no way to defend, mitigate, or counter the absurdly powerful effect that ranged attacks and ranged mortal wounds have on the game.

Just not equipped to compete at "higher levels" of play.

I'm uncertain if this actually is the case, however as per all top notch lists, spam is often the source bringing something that is so much Rock/Paper etc that an meta might not be equiped for it.

If you want to go hard, I'd suggest looking into Murderhost, we allready have read on players having issues with 30 Bloodletters, which is logical. Now if you bring 80-90 with Murderhost I am quite certain your capable of breaking faces. 

The thing is, Age of Sigmar is not designed for "higher levels" of competative play. It somehow doesn't stick to all players but if you simply look at the larger Battletome's you should know enough. There are 120+ pages of Narrative (play) and 1 designed for Matched (play). I just don't get why any players would assume the prime objective of GW is to bring perfect balance to the game.  

[Aspirant Snaeper]

56 minutes ago, LordMoros said:

The few games I've played have brought me to one undeniable conclusion. While Blades of Khorne is a fantastic book, and it has done a lot for bloodbound, AOS is a ranged game. And we are at a massive disadvantage because we have no way to defend, mitigate, or counter the absurdly powerful effect that ranged attacks and ranged mortal wounds have on the game.

Just not equipped to compete at "higher levels" of play.

What kind of lists have you ran? What kind of opponents have you played?

[Centurio]

One of the most feared sources of mortal wounds around here is the Lord of Change's Infernal Gateway.  Blood Tithe can easily shut that down.  Not to mention that some units get a save vs wounds caused by magic.

Blades of Khorne also has its own fairly reliable source of mortal wounds with a range of 16", thst can't be dispelled.

I'm not saying that the book is super competative, I don't really play super competitavely so IDK.

 

[LordMoros]

Pure Bloodbound, 2k points vs stormcast mostly and some tzeentch and sylvaneth.

They all just shoot all my characters turn 1, grind me down from there.

[Aspirant Snaeper]

It was one of the biggest let downs of the BoK book, the lack of shooting protection. Even artifacts for heros. 

I'd love a war machine that can pump out a blanket hit reduction to help us and Im really hoping GHB2 lets us mingle our hero's with escorts 

[Killax]

47 minutes ago, LordMoros said:

Pure Bloodbound, 2k points vs stormcast mostly and some tzeentch and sylvaneth.

They all just shoot all my characters turn 1, grind me down from there.

Army used? I'm interested  

[Jharen]

There's multiple ways to minimize shooting and magic damage with Khorne.  Just off the top of my head... We have Bloodforged armor for our heroes which lets us ignore -1 rend.  We have mortal wound saves on artifacts, we have auto unbinds, we have an artifact that gives us a 2+ save vs spells.  Our Juggernaut hero and units have shields with saves vs spells on a 4+, we also have a battalion that ignores -1 rend for every unit in the battalion.

We also have another method for dealing with shooting which is very good battleline options.  Target saturation is very key here too in many ways.  We gain blood tithes the more units are wiped.  Fielding bloodreavers in large units is useless in my opinion.  I see no reason to ever run a unit of more than 10 boodreavers.  What I see massive usefulness in is running 9 units of 10 bloodreavers.  This forces a shooting army to split their attacks up which means they are going to risk over killing and wasting damage on some units.   Bloodwarriors can be done in much the same way at a slightly higher cost.  Khorne very much is a horde army in my opinion.  More bodies, more blood.

My bloodsecrator rarely dies because he's usually at a 1+ save with a 2+ save vs spells if I'm set on keeping him alive.  Occasionally he does but it hardly cripples my ability to win the game.  Stop putting all your eggs in one basket.   If you're building your army where all your punch is resting in one or two heroes and the rest of your force is bad without them then try something else.  Think outside the box.

[LordMoros]

Just now, Jharen said:

There's multiple ways to minimize shooting and magic damage with Khorne.  Just off the top of my head... We have Bloodforged armor for our heroes which lets us ignore -1 rend.  We have mortal wound saves on artifacts, we have auto unbinds, we have an artifact that gives us a 2+ save vs spells.  Our Juggernaut hero and units have shields with saves vs spells on a 4+, we also have a battalion that ignores -1 rend for every unit in the battalion.

We also have another method for dealing with shooting which is very good battleline options.  Target saturation is very key here too in many ways.  We gain blood tithes the more units are wiped.  Fielding bloodreavers in large units is useless in my opinion.  I see no reason to ever run a unit of more than 10 boodreavers.  What I see massive usefulness in is running 9 units of 10 bloodreavers.  This forces a shooting army to split their attacks up which means they are going to risk over killing and wasting damage on some units.   Bloodwarriors can be done in much the same way at a slightly higher cost.  Khorne very much is a horde army in my opinion.  More bodies, more blood.

My bloodsecrator rarely dies because he's usually at a 1+ save with a 2+ save vs spells if I'm set on keeping him alive.  Occasionally he does but it hardly cripples my ability to win the game.  Stop putting all your eggs in one basket.   If you're building your army where all your punch is resting in one or two heroes and the rest of your force is bad without them then try something else.  Think outside the box.

Stormcast doesn't care what defenses you have on your secrator. They are the real issue for me. The heraldor, the dracoth breath, and the hammercloak = secrator dead everytime.

This is good advice tho and I will try some of it out as soon as I get another game.

[Jharen]

Again I'd say...don't rely on your secrator to stay alive in order for you to win.  But if you're set on keeping him up then bubble wrap him to kill your opponents threat range on him.  Here is where multiple units of bloodreavers can be handy again, or blood warriors.  You can create a net of units your opponent can't move past or drop into.