Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Nico]

They really are terrible. If they don't get a cost reduction I will be disappointed.

[Arkiham]

i suspect they will. 

 

looks like most 1 wound battleline trash is getting horde discounts at the least so they might get that. 

[Vomikron Noxis]

So what are pure Tzeentch Daemons like? Obviously skyfires are great and everyone should take all of them, but what about pure Daemons?

[Tizianolol]

If gh2 doesn t change something i think Skyfires are too strong. If you play competitive you have to choose them:)

[Olincay]

I give to you my completed tester for DOT.

Also, the missus purchased a lord of chance as a surprise gift, what's the best way to build him? 

[misthv]

1) I'm building a Changehost list for play within my gaming group. I feel there are a couple of outstanding issues that need to be FAQed. What is the current "official" ruling (maybe houseruled in GTs etc.) on the following:

a) A pair is considered "different" regardless if it contains the same unit twice. E.g. A + B switch, then B + C switch.

b) You can use the ability to switch a pair in the hero phase, cast spells, then use the ability again (if you have 9+ units) to switch another pair. I.e. you don't need to make all switches at once.

c) Switching a pair enables quirky moves, i.e. to reatreat (without counting as such) out of combat. E.g. switch model from back of unit then remove all models in units and place within 9" of new position making sure you're not within 3" of an enemy unit. 

2) And, then the beloved Changeling. What's the ruling on his ability to set up at the beginning of the battle? Useful or useless depending on enemy's ability to counter placement.

[TheOtherJosh]

a. A pair is not the same unless it is the same. The pairs AB =/= BC =/= CD (In math the ordered pair (A,B ) is not the same as the ordered pair (B,A) unless A=B)... go math ... [emoji32]

 

b. Yes. It does. There is no restriction on vanishing out of combat in the hero phase that I've seen.

 

c. Yep. Not seen a ruling on that personally. But Changling + Balewind Vortex (-Balewind Vortex) + Changehost = Interesting

 

[5kaven5lave]

Guys, what's the best build for the burning chariot?

Most of what I'm seeing is exalted flamer on the chariot but is the herald best on or off the disc?

Cheers!!

[Rover1875]

18 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Guys, what's the best build for the burning chariot?

Most of what I'm seeing is exalted flamer on the chariot but is the herald best on or off the disc?

Cheers!!

I prefer the burning chariot.

The amount of damage it can dish out is to good to pass up.

Haven't used a herald on chariot yet but it seems underwhelming for the point cost.

[Darksider]

Hello,

how mandatory do you find the blue horrors and brimstone horrors in an tzeentch army? Same question for the Lord of Change.

I am asking cause i actually have only 30 Pink Horrros. But Blues and Brimstones don't seem to do that much. Could also save my points and summon some Plaguebearers for blocking nasty units.

I now you need some of them for a few battalions, but are they a must in an Tzeentch Daemon army or could someone live without them?

 

[Malakithe]

49 minutes ago, Darksider said:

Hello,

how mandatory do you find the blue horrors and brimstone horrors in an tzeentch army? Same question for the Lord of Change.

I am asking cause i actually have only 30 Pink Horrros. But Blues and Brimstones don't seem to do that much. Could also save my points and summon some Plaguebearers for blocking nasty units.

I now you need some of them for a few battalions, but are they a must in an Tzeentch Daemon army or could someone live without them?

 

I prefer pink in units of 10 as good minimum battleline cuz they are still wizards. Unless using a specific battalion that requires blues. Brimstones I like for just filling in points gaps. For stuff like the Changehost I always list build with just 3x10 Pinks then fill the battalion with other stuff while using the Brimstones as a filler.

the new 40k Chaos stuff is increasing the brimstone points cost and lowering pink costs so im curious if that will happen with the GH2017. I hope Flamers drop in price a lot. Skyfires will probably go up. And I hope those nearly useless acolytes get a massive points drop

[TheOtherJosh]

...
the new 40k Chaos stuff is increasing the brimstone points cost and lowering pink costs so im curious if that will happen with the GH2017. ...

That happened in 40k because of "Mortal Wounds Spam" through the psychic power "Smite"

In 40k Blues and Brimstones are psyker/Magic users and could cast Smite for d3 mortal wounds. If the brimstone was casting it it "blew up" after the cast and was destroyed. But blues and pinks don't die when casting it.

Additionally, all three types of horrors were on the same template (pinks/blues and brimstones) and could be mixed in the same unit.

So, previously a min unit size of 10 could cast D3 mortal wounds. And could be configured with 1 blue horror and 9 brimstones. (Also had a 4+ invulnerable save.) At the time, that cost 23 Matched play points.

So the "nerf" changed it so that only units with 10 or more Pink Horrors get to cast their mortal wound D3 spell. Any less than 10 pinks, and they only do 1 mortal wound. So, mixed units are still good, because the blues and brimstones can be used as an additional wound pool.

Now, with the change to the casting requirement they dropped the cost of pinks by 2 points each. Increased the cost of brimstones and kept blues the same.

So, 1 blue and 9 brimstones is now 32 points, and can only cast Smite for 1 damage. Instead of 23 points for D3 damage.

So, I don't expect Pinks to go down in cost.

Personally, I'm expecting the Blues and Brimstone minimum Matched Play size to increase to 20 (based on the PtG unit sizes). But I'm also looking forward to the possibility that they may become "Battleline if" units at that 20 model size.

The min 20 would also "tone down" multitudinous host by decreasing unit regen for blues and brimstones by half (if using minimum size squads).

[Darksider]

Thx for the answer =). So it seems they are not that mandatory as in 40k.

So for the beginning is one Box of Blue and Brims okay?

[angelust]

More of a hobby related question, but how do you guys model the extra savage great blades? I got 2 boxes of Tzaangors and I realized they only yield 2x great blades per 10 models...why oh why...

[Malakithe]

35 minutes ago, angelust said:

More of a hobby related question, but how do you guys model the extra savage great blades? I got 2 boxes of Tzaangors and I realized they only yield 2x great blades per 10 models...why oh why...

Its actually 2 greatblades per 5 models

[TheOtherJosh]

Its actually 2 greatblades per 5 models

 

On the warscroll, yes. It is 2 per 5.

 

The GW website indicates that you only get 2 for the entire box of 10. (And no indication of the horn...)

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/Tzaangors-AoS

 

"This multi-part plastic kit contains the components necessary to assemble 10 Tzaangors, bedecked head to foot in the avian symbolism of Tzeentch. These models have a huge amount of customisation available:

 

- 24 (24!) heads – 12 different designs with 12 different sets of horns, meaning your Tzaangors will be unique;

- 12 savage blades, 12 arcanite shields and 12 sets of axe and pick – pair up the savage blades or carry one and a shield on each model, your choice;

- 2 models can be assembled as Mutants – these have special, mutated heads. In fact, they have 2 heads. Each. Accompanying their terrible deformity are special mutated weapons – 2 swords and 2 axes, each featuring staring eyes modelled on the hilts;

- 2 models can be assembled as icon bearers;

- 2 models can be assembled as Twistbrays, the unit leaders – there are 4 specific sets of extra-ornate horns for them, and 2 double-handed savage greatblades.

 

This kit comprises 142 components, and is supplied with 10 Citadel 32mm Round bases."

[Malakithe]

Ahh right...I misread what he was saying. Huh..that kinda sucks then lol so you need 12 greatblades per unit of 30 and you only get 6 

[Malin]

Ok guys,

Lets end this madness, and bring some order to this chaotic box

 

Tzaangors are designed to be 5 unique models per set of sprues. In a box of 10 you get this duplicated to create 10 models.

 

Unique set of sprues (for 5 model) allows you to build:

- 2 models with savage great blades - these are the ones with two handed weapons, sword and mace alike,

- 1 mutant,

- 2 models with either: 2 savage blades, blade and shield, standard or horn.

 

Do not remember which one was used to build champion (twistbray he was called) but there is no point in building him from this configuration, it is better to use model with Savage Great blade as Champion instead.

 

Have fun, sleep well, order without a doubt

Cheers

Malin

 

 

[TheOtherJosh]

I've only used the Silver Tower Tzaangor models myself.
@malin So... there are 4 sprues in the box? 2 sprues for each 5 models. And 4 total savage greatblades [2 axe versions, and 2 sword versions] in the box of 10?

So all the models can be made, one just can end up with the Champion carrying the other Savage Greatblade?

[angelust]

46 minutes ago, Malin said:

Ok guys,

Lets end this madness, and bring some order to this chaotic box

 

Tzaangors are designed to be 5 unique models per set of sprues. In a box of 10 you get this duplicated to create 10 models.

 

Unique set of sprues (for 5 model) allows you to build:

- 2 models with savage great blades - these are the ones with two handed weapons, sword and mace alike,

- 1 mutant,

- 2 models with either: 2 savage blades, blade and shield, standard or horn.

 

Do not remember which one was used to build champion (twistbray he was called) but there is no point in building him from this configuration, it is better to use model with Savage Great blade as Champion instead.

 

Have fun, sleep well, order without a doubt

Cheers

Malin

 

 

Oh that's great. Didn't realize the other greatblade was an axe. 

[ssharkus]

Overall its 2 greatswords and 2 two-handed maces in tzaangor box.

[hobgoblinclub]

2 hours ago, ssharkus said:

Overall its 2 greatswords and 2 two-handed maces in tzaangor box.

Yeah. You get great swords and great axes. Also, if you've got Skyfires, you can use your pile of discarded Enlightened weapons as greatblades. I've shoved a load of Enlightened blades and heads into my Tzaangor units and they look way cooler. 

[Olincay]

50 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

Yeah. You get great swords and great axes. Also, if you've got Skyfires, you can use your pile of discarded Enlightened weapons as greatblades. I've shoved a load of Enlightened blades and heads into my Tzaangor units and they look way cooler. 

You can't go over the 2 great blades per 5 models tho right? unless you're doing it for aesthetic purposes. 

[TheOtherJosh]

You can't go over the 2 great blades per 5 models tho right? unless you're doing it for aesthetic purposes. 

 

tl;dr - Not running WYSIWYG or consistent "counts as" can lead to confusion ... and claims of 'shenanigans' ... while Tzeentch is well known for trickery ... we as players should aim to be good opponents and avoid being sketchy.

 

It's your hobby. Build how you like.

 

But...

 

Tzaangor have a variety of configurations and can take any combination of their weapons, unlike some units. (Bloodreavers and Orruk Brites for example.)

 

If you're going to play them in any kind of game. It's 2 per every full count of 5.

 

If you're not putting them out on the table or using them in a game.... sure

 

If you're using the great Blades as "counts as something else" ... sure.

 

As a player, if you're using them as both "Great Blades and Something else...." them how are you ensuring that you're making the right rolls for the models, and how is your opponent keeping track of your rolls?

 

(You "... and this model with the great sword has a shield... and this model with the great sword has Paired savage blades... and this model with a great blade is actually an Icon Bearer ..."

 

[several models with great blades fail save and removed from board...]

 

your opponent "... which one just got killed?"

 

You "... oh this one with the savage great blade that actually has a shield just made his save roll..."

 

your opponent "wait ... which ones have shields ... none of your models in range have shields ... how do you know which ones have shields? ")

 

[misthv]

I'm about to start a Path to Glory campaign (against SC unfortunately) to get an incentive to paint my Tzeentch Daemons. Any one have a thought on a good start? 

 

LoC

10 Pinks

20 Blues

 

or 

 

LoC

10 Pinks

10 Pinks

 

Though, I'd rather start with a hero that gives me more followers, but since I feel a LoC is great late game and there is no way of acquiring or later I feel I should start with him.