FEC against Thundertusk

[Seas]

Hey Guys,

 

I wanna know how u would deal against an mixed destruction army with 2 thundertusk, with only FEC?

 

Ty

[TerrorPenguin]

Big units of crypt horrors and more than one courtier. Once you're across the board you can start to do them some damage but you're going to have to bear the mortal wound spam first

[ElectricPaladin]

I think if you go all out mortal wound avoidance - Ruler of the Night on your terrorgheist ghoul king for a 5+ save vs. mortal wounds, plus a second 5+ save on any one unit within 18'' of your ghoul king - you might be able to take it on the chin long enough. Also, don't forget summoning and board-edge deployment, which can help you come to grips more quickly. We have our own sources of mortal wounds, including banshees and cairn wraiths. And finally, remember to play the scenario, not your opponent's army. You can fail forward - especially with the guerrilla warfare aspect of the Flesh Eaters, and especially against such a low model count enemy - and end up winning on points even if your force is reduced to tatters.

[CoffeeGrunt]

9 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

We have our own sources of mortal wounds, including banshees and cairn wraiths. 

 

13 hours ago, Seas said:

I wanna know how u would deal against an mixed destruction army with 2 thundertusk, with only FEC?

Also Cairn Wraiths don't do Mortal Wounds.

[ElectricPaladin]

Blerp blerp blerp.

[CoffeeGrunt]

It's a shame the FEC Terrorgheist Scream isn't as good as the Death one as well. Otherwise that'd be a decent source of Mortal Wounds to run with. As it is, it's still a ferociously-good unit. I'd personally go for the Red Fury trait and see if you can just pounce Thundertusks one-by-one and rip them to ribbons. Use Ghouls to screen your Gheist against counter-charges and you should be okay.

[RossMHoward]

45 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

 I'd personally go for the Red Fury trait and see if you can just pounce Thundertusks one-by-one and rip them to ribbons.

I'd be tempted to go with the Zombie Dragon GK for this tactic as it has more attacks with it's claws. I know the fanged maw on the Gheist is the kingmaker, but overall you ought to get more damage with 7 claw attacks rather than 4

[wayniac]

I have not had the "fortune" of playing Beastclaws, but I would think that the best approach is to play for the scenario.  Assuming a situation where you aren't tailoring your list specifically, the answer of taking more Horrors or extra Courtiers might not be something you can do.  I definitely like the idea of a GKoZD with Red Fury to try and mug the Thundertusks, trying to cripple them.  Maybe with the Tomb Blade (the one that lets you heal for every wound you do) to try and keep him alive as long as possible, or the Cloak to alpha one and hopefully rip it to shreds first.

[Nico]

Don't take the Red Fury Trait - turning the Thundertusks from 5 mortal wounds on average (they have been known to roll ones for the 2+) to 10/3 mortal wounds on average is massive! Frankly it's a good match up. Just take 12 Crypt Horrors as a single unit, Ward Save spell from Vanhels).

The -1 to hit in combat on the Thundertusk is a pain though with 4+ to hit (that might point towards the GKoZD).

The Stonelord is a bigger problem for FEC, if they cast mystic shield on it and aren't stupid with it (like letting you get an alpha strike on it with Flappies using Cloak of Mists before it has even drunk battlebrew, then you'll probably lose the game. Be aware that even crippled, it will still deal out immense damage with battlebrew.

[wayniac]

Good points.. I feel BCR in general are very hard for Flesh-Eaters to fight (most things, actually) because of how many wounds they can put out and how resilient they are.

[Nico]

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Assuming a situation where you aren't tailoring your list specifically, the answer of taking more Horrors or extra Courtiers might not be something you can do.  I definitely like the idea of a GKoZD with Red Fury to try and mug the Thundertusks, trying to cripple them. 

If you're playing vs a filth list, they will either block your charges reliably with Fanatics or have a Kunning Rukk block or 30-40 Arrer Boyz to hard counter any monster mash on your part. Or you might be lucky enough to play against all three of these with a 280 point Arachnorok with Battlebrew thrown in for lolz.

[wayniac]

1 minute ago, Nico said:

If you're playing vs a filth list, they will either block your charges reliably with Fanatics or have a Kunning Rukk block or 30-40 Arrer Boyz to hard counter any monster mash on your part. Or you might be lucky enough to play against all three of these with a 280 point Arachnorok with Battlebrew thrown in for lolz.

So what, from a balanced army perspective, can our noble men-at-arms do against such destructive barbarians, besides play the fiddle whilst our proud kingdom burns?  My concern with the "take more horrors" is that it's rare (or should be rare) that you know what you'll be facing. 

[Nico]

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So what, from a balanced army perspective, can our noble men-at-arms do against such destructive barbarians, besides play the fiddle whilst our proud kingdom burns?  My concern with the "take more horrors" is that it's rare (or should be rare) that you know what you'll be facing. 

I think you need to mix it up with other Death stuff, to have much chance. The more I think about it, the more it looks like you could stalemate them on some battleplans but will struggle to actually take off their stuff. -1 to hit is horrible for an army that is largely hitting on 4+ (Crypy Flayers would lose their mortal wounds...).

You might not believe it, but Nagash is actually ok vs Thundertusks (he only takes 5/6 *5/2 =25/12 = about 2 wounds from each one per turn and reflects the odd one back with Morrikhane. If they have Grots he can heal back easily with Soul Stealer (they don't get the utterly broken banner buff in the hero phase only in the battleshock phase from memory). The game then becomes a question of who gets the drop on the 

That said, Kunning Rukk is a hard counter to Nagash (unless you can somehow get him into Beguile range with a Coven Throne and then you can start doing a victory dance and laughing your head off). I'm guessing that summon bat swarms into range wouldn't work due to the walk backwards out of their insufficiently long range trick. 

If you take Neferata and Nagash, then he suddenly becomes a 2+ rerolling ones, ignoring rend god and can laugh off the Kunning Rukk - however, this will be a terrible list against many other opponents. Sylvaneth can do this for about 950 points cheaper with an Ancient with Oaken Armour and Gnarled Warrior. 

Neferata would also be cowering in the corner and hoping the Thundertusk doesn't roll a 6 for its Ravagers hero move to slam 4-5 mortal wounds into her turn one (even if she's on the back line).

Neferata could help against Kunning Rukk with her -1 to hit debuff (but she hates Thundertusks).

It's a horrific prospect for Death. At best you take out one or two of the (say) 4 major threats with alpha strikes, but the other two are still strong enough to delete your entire army easily (or you get Grotblocked) or you play with a Deathstar of Crypt Horrors and try to grind and hold objectives and hope you don't fail any cast rolls.

Beguile really needs to have a longer range. It's the natural counter to Deathstars and filth like Kunning Rukk.

[RossMHoward]

17 minutes ago, Nico said:

-1 to hit is horrible for an army that is largely hitting on 4+ (Crypy Flayers would lose their mortal wounds...).

I figure that with the extra melee attack from Ghoul King on foot and the Vampire Lord as a general you can somewhat offset the -1 to hit. But having 4+ on all of the big damage attacks mean you're going into matchups like that with so much uncertainty. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Ouch. The GA: Death Ghoul King would be the perfect counter to that, but he's invalid now there's a dedicated FEC book.

Other than that I can only suggest things outside Ghouldom, like Settra or the VLoZD.

[ElectricPaladin]

Believe it or not, I've found that a massive block of ghouls can do a very good job of taking down an enemy monster. Try buffing it with, say, the ghoul patrol battalion and a couple of nearby courtiers, start with 30+ so you've got some wiggle room before you lose your battalion strength benefit. Then add in rerolls from being near a ghoul king, +1 attack from the ghoul king on foot's spell... That's potentially 100+ attacks, and hitting on 4s (rerolling 1s) and wounding on 4s ain't too shabby for basic infantry. With enough models returning per turn, your opponent won't be able to wipe out the ghouls, and they'll eventually be whittled down and eaten!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Depends on your opponent. Had a similar thing against a Stardrake where I threw 40 Spear Skellies with 2+ to Hit and 3+ Wound, exploding attacks on 3s to Hit. Made it roll so many of its buffed 2+RR save healing on 6s that I actually not only failed to hurt it, but also healed the 3 wounds I inflicted with Grave Guard the previous turn.

As far as I know, the Thundertusks have no such shenanigans, so it should be fine.

[bennyp]

What about a royal menagerie?  3 terrorgheists with a GLoZD is pretty brutal. Experienced this against my Sylvaneth on Monday, I lost the game hard. 

The formation is as fast as destruction and heals pretty well. Plus the mortal wound scream means you are playing the tusks at their own game!

[Seas]

3 hours ago, bennyp said:

What about a royal menagerie?  3 terrorgheists with a GLoZD is pretty brutal. Experienced this against my Sylvaneth on Monday, I lost the game hard. 

The formation is as fast as destruction and heals pretty well. Plus the mortal wound scream means you are playing the tusks at their own game!

Yeah u are right, that sounds rly great to me. Didnt think about to use the royal menagerie !

Wanna try this list

[bennyp]

That's a pretty fierce list! The two formations will help you in both kill points and seizing objectives.

i always run red fury on my general but realise that traits are down to play style (you can always tinker with it to see what works from game to game)

good luck and hope I don't face you ?

[deynon]

I'm thinking about a list with the Royal Maanagerie, but without the ghoul Patrol. And I take all 3 GKoDZ/TG

[WSDdeloach]

On 12/7/2016 at 6:19 AM, CoffeeGrunt said:

It's a shame the FEC Terrorgheist Scream isn't as good as the Death one as well. Otherwise that'd be a decent source of Mortal Wounds to run with. As it is, it's still a ferociously-good unit. I'd personally go for the Red Fury trait and see if you can just pounce Thundertusks one-by-one and rip them to ribbons. Use Ghouls to screen your Gheist against counter-charges and you should be okay.

You could use the grand alliance death book... gw has even said all rules are valid at the moment 

[CoffeeGrunt]

4 minutes ago, WSDdeloach said:

You could use the grand alliance death book... gw has even said all rules are valid at the moment 

The GA Death book has a better scream but worse everything else, IIRC.

[deynon]

On 20/12/2016 at 0:08 PM, CoffeeGrunt said:

The GA Death book has a better scream but worse everything else, IIRC.

you don't have to use everything in a book or another, you can mix them

[CoffeeGrunt]

It's against the spirit of fair play to pick and choose the strongest options though, so I'm not doing it.