Dwarfs, dispossessed, duardin, whatever...

[jpf1982]

Just curious if anyone playing Dwarfs primarily has had much luck in the game?  Looking to get back into it with my Dwarf army and curious if I'm looking to just get my teeth punched in over and over again due to newer factions being awesome and regular old Dwarfs being old?

 

Thanks

[jpf1982]

Ok let me be more specific. 

Looking for dwarf players to ask some questions.

Do straight dwarf forces seem to work?

Are they underpowered compared to new stuff?

Are there some units that just aren't worth taking or that some players view as necessary?

Thanks

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I believe that Duardin are basically in the same place that they have been in for the last couple of WHFB editions.  Good/decent infantry, shooting, and war machines but movement is a significant hindrance.  This can be a challenge in objective based matches.

[hobgoblinclub]

4 hours ago, jpf1982 said:

Ok let me be more specific. 

Looking for dwarf players to ask some questions.

Do straight dwarf forces seem to work?

Are they underpowered compared to new stuff?

Are there some units that just aren't worth taking or that some players view as necessary?

Thanks

Dwarf forces are ok they just suffer from the same issues they always did. It's all slow moving infantry and shooting. Yep, you can build a list web miners and gyros etc. but it's all as it has been for many years. 

I suppose they are underpowered compared to the new stuff, but if you like them, go for it. Unless you're playing uber competitive, everything is decent in AoS.

[jpf1982]

No plans on under competitive. Just don't want to get my teeth kicked in every game. I'm sure I'll figure it out. Are battle formations worth taking?

[Cerlin]

They seem to be one of the factions that benefit from the synergy with other order units. I am going to run mine (building the dwarf army now) with my Empire troops + artillery + Cavalry. I am going to try different combinations of these and see how they go.

[Aezeal]

Use dwarfs for infantry and artillery, their stuff is about as good as other factions options I think. If you think your army needs (fast) cavalry or magic (magic shield IS nice) then just take them from other factions within order.

[Broken Netcode]

1 minute ago, Aezeal said:

Use dwarfs for infantry and artillery, their stuff is about as good as other factions options I think. If you think your army needs (fast) cavalry or magic (magic shield IS nice) then just take them from other factions within order.

Not really read into the lore of AoS because im still attached to the story of the old world and like to think we are still in it (sorry guys, just an opinion) but do dwarfs still turn to stone if magic is cast on them or by them?

[Aezeal]

Just now, Broken Netcode said:

Not really read into the lore of AoS because im still attached to the story of the old world and like to think we are still in it (sorry guys, just an opinion) but do dwarfs still turn to stone if magic is cast on them or by them?

No idea... not much AoS dwarf lore.

Was it really in the old world lore? Seems like an easy way to kill a dwarf army: cast low grade AoE spells on them  

[Broken Netcode]

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

No idea... not much AoS dwarf lore.

Was it really in the old world lore? Seems like an easy way to kill a dwarf army: cast low grade AoE spells on them  

Well one of the reasons chaos dwarfs were part stone is because they started casting magic. Mana seriously makes them ill so instead they started casting runes to supplement for it. Also, its only dwarf casting on dwarf that causes stoneform if im correct.

[hobgoblinclub]

2 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

Not really read into the lore of AoS because im still attached to the story of the old world and like to think we are still in it (sorry guys, just an opinion) but do dwarfs still turn to stone if magic is cast on them or by them?

If this was a Warhammer thing, it must have been long, long ago. 'Dwarfs' in Warhammer haven't been able to cast magic since 3rd Edition in the 80s.

 

19 hours ago, jpf1982 said:

No plans on under competitive. Just don't want to get my teeth kicked in every game. I'm sure I'll figure it out. Are battle formations worth taking?

The formations in the Grand Alliance Order book are both OK from what I remember. 

If you're planning to take lots of shooting, taking a Knight-Azyros is a good shout. His 'Illuminator of the Lost' ability gives shooting attacks +1 to hit against enemies that he's within 10" of. That's for anyone's shooting not just Stormcast's. 

[Broken Netcode]

45 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

If this was a Warhammer thing, it must have been long, long ago. 'Dwarfs' in Warhammer haven't been able to cast magic since 3rd Edition in the 80s.

 

The formations in the Grand Alliance Order book are both OK from what I remember. 

If you're planning to take lots of shooting, taking a Knight-Azyros is a good shout. His 'Illuminator of the Lost' ability gives shooting attacks +1 to hit against enemies that he's within 10" of. That's for anyone's shooting not just Stormcast's. 

Its less of being able to cast magic and more of reluctance to do so. Chaos dwarfs dabble in magic so they become part stoneskin. Regular dwarfs have a grudge against it now so they refute even the sniff of it. 

[hobgoblinclub]

3 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Its less of being able to cast magic and more of reluctance to do so. Chaos dwarfs dabble in magic so they become part stoneskin. Regular dwarfs have a grudge against it now so they refute even the sniff of it. 

Yeah. I meant more 'haven't been able to' in rules terms than an actual lack of ability. I always thought they should have just gone for it. Using runes was so similar, it seemed crazy they would forgo a weapon as powerful as magic simply on principle.

[jpf1982]

Okay, well I have my first game tonight at 1250 Points.  Not even sure against what, as I've not been involved in our local stuff for so long and don't' actually know the guy I'll be playing; organized it over group chat.

I'm taking below.  Let me know if that sounds naff or not.

 

Warden King

Unforged

Cogsmith

Runelord

2x10 Warriors with command

1x20 Longbeards with command

2x10 Thunderers

1x10 Miners with command

1x10 Hammerers with command

20 Slayers

1 Flame Cannon

2 Gyrocopters

Dispossessed Clan Throng Formation

1240 Points

[fartsocks]

1 hour ago, jpf1982 said:

Okay, well I have my first game tonight at 1250 Points.  Not even sure against what, as I've not been involved in our local stuff for so long and don't' actually know the guy I'll be playing; organized it over group chat.

I'm taking below.  Let me know if that sounds naff or not.

 

Warden King

Unforged

Cogsmith

Runelord

2x10 Warriors with command

1x20 Longbeards with command

2x10 Thunderers

1x10 Miners with command

1x10 Hammerers with command

20 Slayers

1 Flame Cannon

2 Gyrocopters

Dispossessed Clan Throng Formation

1240 Points

You sure you've added the points up correctly? Looks like about 2000 points there.

[Dez]

Looks like 2100 to me too

I'd consider reassessing this list, and try to get a bit more of it's synergies working. If it were me, I'd probably go something like this: 

Grimm Burloksson

Runelord

Dwarf Warriors x10

Longbeards x10

Longbeards x10

Thunderers x20

Miners x10

Gyrocopter

Flame Cannon

 

That gets you a Triumph roll.

Put Grimm Burlokson with the Flame Cannon, you'll want the enhanced damage out put. He also adds 6" to the Thunderers range, bringing them to 22". Runelord goes with the Thunderers too, for the -1 rend bringing them to -2.  A unit of Longbeards nearby acts as chaff and shield as well as buffing them a bit with Battleshock.

Miners and Gyrocopter act as your speed/scalpel, going where you need them fast. You could even consider dropping the Miners and taking the second Gyrocopter, but I like the Miners as they have more numbers for things liek Take and Hold.

Dwarfs and second unit of Longbeards hang out with the Flame Cannon, or support the Thunderers as they move about the board.

So your Thunderers at this point are 3+ 3+ -2 1 for their Handgun. That's pretty good, especially with 20 shots.

 

This is what I would do, but I'm an arm chair general as far as Dwarfs go

 

[jpf1982]

Wow, So glad you guys caught that. Apparently the excel sheet I was using had missed like 6 cells in its adddition formula. Oops!

Thanks for recommendations too. I was trying to go with stuff I had without proxies. I don't have burlock but I will look into it for sure. 

I guess I'm also a little stuck on the old ways of special characters being frowned on.  Theyre more accepted now aren't they?

[Dez]

Yes the characters are readily accepted. One thing you could do is just take a normal Cogsmith, it's the same points. Grimm is better, he heals D3 wounds on a warmachine and gives the +6 range.

Also, so you don't need to use Excel http://scrollbuilder.com/

I use that like people play video games haha.

[hobgoblinclub]

3 hours ago, Dez said:

Yes the characters are readily accepted. One thing you could do is just take a normal Cogsmith, it's the same points. Grimm is better, he heals D3 wounds on a warmachine and gives the +6 range.

Also, so you don't need to use Excel http://scrollbuilder.com/

I use that like people play video games haha.

Definitely Scrollbuilder. It's a superb resource. 

[jpf1982]

So I went with the following. Little of lots to try it out. See what I liked. 

 

 

runelord

engineer

2x10 thunderer

1x10 warrior

2x10 longbeard

5 slayer

1x10 miner

flame cannon

gyro

 

Opponent had

arkahn the mortarch

2x30 skeletons

5 black knights

10 grave guard

white king bsb

 

rolled a take and hold scenario

To say that I had little to no chance is hardly worth effort  any shooting I did was quickly scuffed off by his banners and arkahn is brutal compared to what I had. I however did have the elements of surprise in the miners. After getting excited about probably tabling me he walked to far from the objective and forgot about the miners.  Next then they popped on objective.  He couldn't get back to stop me in time. Instant win.   He would've totally tabled me otherwise, but hey, I'll take it. 

 

The dwarfs dont don't seem to have as much obvious synergy as the undead; take big units, keep near hero, pump out attacks.  At least that's how I feel.  I'm sure there is something I don't see (like burlock and rifles) but nothing jumps out at me. 

 

[Dez]

Most people don't play straight Dwarfs, but mix in other Order. Look into Hurricanum or Luminark 

[Dave Fraser]

Duardin without the compendium scrolls are average at best.  With the compendium scrolls you can make them good.

30 Xbows with Grimm = 60 shots with a potential 30" range, runelord for rend, warden for +1 to wound (limited usage but when you get it it's ace!)

Grudgethrower with an engineer close by gives a fairly reliable way to deal with the characters which switch on a lot of armies at present (Sayl, Cunning Ruck, FEC).  THough worth noting that the wording on the scroll says you pick the target to get rerolls against at the point of deploying the WM, so you need to hold it for late in your deployment to get optimal targets quite often.

Any combat unit with belegar, ungrim & Thorgrim and some longbeards to turn on all the command abilities pump out a load of attacks with lots of bonuses.

And that's without going outside what was historically under the heading of dwarfs.  As noted Hurricanum just turns all the shooting up a notch.

[fartsocks]

9 hours ago, jpf1982 said:

After getting excited about probably tabling me he walked to far from the objective and forgot about the miners.  Next then they popped on objective.  He couldn't get back to stop me in time. Instant win.   He would've totally tabled me otherwise, but hey, I'll take it. 

Well, he was only able to concentrate his troops on killing you because he didn't leave any behind to protect the objective. At least that's what I'd be telling myself.

[jpf1982]

Nah. If he'd left even his smallest unit on the objective he would've won by killing me. I was down about half my army and I'd managed at the time to eliminate non of his units and what i had killed just kept coming back. Still, many games are won on single mistakes. He made a mistake. 

[Carnelian]

As an occasional death player, I know it is difficult for everyone (not just duardin) to play against Death's big units that regenerate. you have to really know what to focus your attacks on. No point trying to whittle a few wounds off a unit at a time - you have to be able to do massive damage to one unit rather than a bit to each.

Also, focus on the support characters as they are normally a squishy 5 or so wounds but can make the big units absolute beasts.