Arkiham Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 So, with the recent changes to the Balewind and additional of points (of which I'm not happy about, but what's done is done. ) I feel that this now needs to become a discussion of viability and tactics for Chaos wizards, I'll leave other alliances to do this themselves. Not all wizards need this scenery or armies cant afford it or make the best use of it and the best way I feel to consider using one is to add 100 points to the wizard provide it the benefits of the Balewind. I'd like us to discuss and to compile a list of our wizards and the worthiness of attempting to summon the Balewind, this would include the usage of it within battalions. I don't have experience with skaven, chaos dwarves or beastmen within AoS so some help here would be nice, I'll attach the updated warscroll for ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I feel that 100 pts is rather steep, but if you pay the points for it, you should have access to it as it stands on the war scroll, i.e. all wizards have access to the summoning spell. So, I can have ONE vortex on the table per wizard at 100 pts per vortex, or, I could collapse the vortex I have in my "possession" and have a different wizard conjure it at a different spot on the battlefield. This works and takes a bit of the high cost sting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 51 minutes ago, Tasman said: I feel that 100 pts is rather steep, but if you pay the points for it, you should have access to it as it stands on the war scroll, i.e. all wizards have access to the summoning spell. So, I can have ONE vortex on the table per 100 wizard at 100 pts per vortex, or, I could collapse the vortex I have in my "possession" and have a different wizard conjure it at a different spot on the battlefield. This works and takes a bit of the high cost sting away. yeah i get that i was thinking more in terms of. is festus worth taking now at 220 points compared to just 120 points, same with chaos sorcerer etc. i started this thread a bit before i had time to contribute towards it more so lol. bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Yeah, I used this yesterday and Festus was all of a sudden in the running for MVP right behind the Harbinger. Between the two of them, my opponents ogors were not having a great day. Scarier still is the idea of sticking Sayl up there. Fly units 36"? Yes indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Just now, Tasman said: Yeah, I used this yesterday and Festus was all of a sudden in the running for MVP along with the Harbinger. Scarier still is the idea of sticking Sayl up there. Fly units 36"? Yes indeed! The range of the casting distance increases , not the effect of the spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Hmm. Not sure what that means in this case. So the target unit can be 20" away from sayl? I don't think that's the case, but even if ibis, it's still immensely powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tasman said: Hmm. Not sure what that means in this case. So the target unit can be 20" away from sayl? I don't think that's the case, but even if ibis, it's still immensely powerful. Yeah it's the range (distance in inches ) you can cast the spell. so the 18" becomes 36" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordippon Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Is there an official point cost? Or are you discussing a house rule? If the balewind should have a point cost, should the Sylvaneth Wyldwood also cost points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 32 minutes ago, Tasman said: Hmm. Not sure what that means in this case. So the target unit can be 20" away from sayl? I don't think that's the case, but even if it is, it's still immensely powerful. Yeah it's official. In the app and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I may just use 2 of these things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Netcode Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 4 hours ago, Lordippon said: Is there an official point cost? Or are you discussing a house rule? If the balewind should have a point cost, should the Sylvaneth Wyldwood also cost points? Wyldwood has a point value too now, but is free if your army has the Sylvaneth allegiance thus the worry of spamming the things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 The units I feel this best suits are going to be tzeentch units, due to the fact most heroes are going to be wizards, so you can at least still throw the odd spell out with. Particularly The Gaunt summoner and familiars. as they're part of his model I'm going to assume they also are allowed up on the Balewind (until a faq tells me otherwise ) this grants him the protection he so desperately needs, grants him an additional +1 to cast giving him total +2 with two spells per turn. and he has a brilliant spell. Curseling, Lord of Tzeentch. This guys pretty good turn 2 or so onwards if you move him up towards the centre of the field. the Balewind is a bit risky on him as he doesn't get advantages to cast but if he gets it he's in a good position, 2 casts an unbinds, with +1 there's a good chance you'll get a free spell off from the opposing wizard. Tzeentch Sorceror Lord. With his special ability to get a free spell if you roll a double, you get a safer attempt to cast balewind than with other wizards who do not gain bonuses, has a nice unique spell, but unless you're willing to saves points for it, pretty average. The Blue Scribes. You want to cast a spell? I want to cast a spell! This unit here, is your pocket pick. Turn 1 use their ability and 1 dice the Balewind like a 84% chance success, this summons the Balewind, grants you an extra spell, use their Boon of Tzeentch spell for a 36" range, it's pretty much the entire battle field you need be concerned with, cast away within 18" of these guys and they learn it. any spell friend or foe. They're still up on the Balewind so can double the range and can cast it on 1 d6 with a 84% chance of success. Very helpful if you want to cast spells. That's all the tzeentch wizards I'd consider casting balewind with, if you have other suggestions feel free. The only other wizard I've used who I would consider is Festus. And that's for the first turn only really, unless the others spells are out of range and shield is cast. hes too helpful as a support to the big monster heroes to leave up on the Balewind, and as you've got to pay for it now, it's not nessarily worth it on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Maybe the daemonsmith. Strong debuff spell where the range is a little bit to short. You want to out range the shooting unit you are targeting. Edit: But probably not by it self you need other stuff to summon if the opponent dont have strong ranged units and probably a LOA warmachine to get something more out of the daemonsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Netcode Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Arkiham said: You want to cast a spell? I want to cast a spell! Im already triggered by Pavel-ling book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Broken Netcode said: Im already triggered by Pavel-ling book... i dont get this reference. sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Netcode Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Arkiham said: i dont get this reference. sorry! Watch hearthstone world championship 2016 final. Pavel got lethal from a babbling book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Just now, Broken Netcode said: Watch hearthstone world championship 2016 final. Pavel got lethal from a babbling book. aha, i do play hearth occasionally but never watched the championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranect Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I do not think that it would help most of the beastmen wizards. The summoning one it could add one so you need an 8 instead of 9, malagor has no spell range to double, and morghur could make his spell 32" range but you still have to beat the targets bravery so I don't think it would be very useful for the beastmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomedes Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, cranect said: I do not think that it would help most of the beastmen wizards. The summoning one it could add one so you need an 8 instead of 9, malagor has no spell range to double, and morghur could make his spell 32" range but you still have to beat the targets bravery so I don't think it would be very useful for the beastmen. Seconded. Morghur is immune to shooting and magic unless within 12' (Making him really difficult to kill on a balewind), and Malagor can turn into a nice sniper, but that extra 100 points made it pretty much pointless for Beastmen. 220 points is just too much to dump, you could get a ghorgon for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Quote The Gaunt summoner and familiars. as they're part of his model I'm going to assume they also are allowed up on the Balewind (until a faq tells me otherwise ) this grants him the protection he so desperately needs, grants him an additional +1 to cast giving him total +2 with two spells per turn. and he has a brilliant spell. Yeah - I would say he's a hero and quote a "single model" - he's quite distinct from the Warlocks and Sisters of the Thorn which were intended to be banned. This is probably by far the best option. The ability to delete half a big block turn one is priceless. He has Blot to give him +1 to cast as well. The Daemonsmith is the other good option as @Andreas said. Hard counter to Bonesplitterz filth. The Changeling (in your deployment zone) could be useful (i.e. deploy him without stealth). Altenatively deploy him near Kroak, cast Balewind (use Kairos if necessary to rig it), then cast AOE fun right at the heart of the Seraphon army. I think the solution is to have 100 points of Reinforcement and have a good 100 point unit to summon instead in particular games, e.g. 10 Bloodletters? 10 Plaguebearers? Maybe Pink Horrors for a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 The gaunt summoner (either rendition), Sayl, ogroid thaumaturge and herald of tzeench appear to be some units that would be awesome on a balewind. Even Festus is pretty cool on it. The thing to remember is that you aren't adding 100 pts to the cost of the wizard. You are putting 100 pts in your summoning pool to be used as you see fit. Any mage in your force would have access to it, or you could, as noted earlier, use the points for some needed reinforcements in the form of a demonic host. Your choice. I like the added flexibility it gives me. All that being said, I don't see as how it wouldn't be a huge boon for any mage to use. The added range and protection it offers as well as the +1 to casting makes it an awesome addition. I've pretty much changed my mind as to it being OP. 100 pts is about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 22 hours ago, Nico said: Yeah - I would say he's a hero and quote a "single model" - he's quite distinct from the Warlocks and Sisters of the Thorn which were intended to be banned. This is probably by far the best option. The ability to delete half a big block turn one is priceless. He has Blot to give him +1 to cast as well. How does his spell work, as I've not actually used this guy yet. I pick a dude 18 or 36 if on Balewind away, and everything within 18 of that thing I pick or within 18" of my dude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Pick a unit within 36 that is visible. Roll a dice for each model within 36 (even if not visible) - each 4+ is a mortal wound. Cast on an 8 as it's very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddok Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 So this just boosts the spell range, not its effect's range? If it boosts the effect's range, the herald on chariot just got very very good. an 18" bubble of d3 mortal wounds is frightening to msu armies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Maddok said: So this just boosts the spell range, not its effect's range? If it boosts the effect's range, the herald on chariot just got very very good. an 18" bubble of d3 mortal wounds is frightening to msu armies Yeah just spell range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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