Plaguetouched warband

[Tasman]

Won't the -1 to hit modifier negate the mortal wounds handed out by grandfathers favor? It states that wound roll of 6 or higher cause a mortal wound back on the attacker... this indicates that modifiers apply so, 6, -1,=5. No mortal wound back then, right? Or would you get them anyway?

[Nico]

It is hit (modifier) and wound (the effect) rolls - these are different rolls, so there's no interplay between them.

[Thomas Lyons]

14 minutes ago, SlowPlay85 said:

So i am confused after reading all this so a hero can or cant count as a unit 

Heroes are absolutely units, but that isn't the issue.  According to the FAQ, you must meet keyword requirements precisely, which means that you may never exceed any combination of keywords required by the battalion.  The problem is that this FAQ actually breaks a number of other battalions as they are currently written when all requirements are keywords and no requirement may be filled more than once.

So, if you are following the FAQ, the battalion would consist of 1 Mortal Nurgle Hero and 6 other (non-hero) Mortal Nurgle units.  If you are not following the FAQ on requirements as maximums, then the battalion will be at fewest 1 Mortal Nurgle Hero and 6 other Mortal Nurgle units (which could include heroes) and at most 1 Mortal Nurgle Hero and 7 other Mortal Nurgle units (which could include heroes).  Both interpretations cause problems.  The key is to check with your TO and see if they are reading requirements as both minimums and maximums (as per the FAQ), or only as minimums (as most people seem to be doing).   

[rokapoke]

56 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Yeah it's been done that characters are units, pretty sure it's explained in a faq or ghb17

Technically that's on page 1 of the basic rules. 

[SlowPlay85]

So the faq is official and therefore any other interpretation would be illegal so 1 hero and 7 units that would not include other heros 

[Thomas Lyons]

5 hours ago, SlowPlay85 said:

So the faq is official and therefore any other interpretation would be illegal so 1 hero and 7 units that would not include other heros 

Yes, the FAQ is official but it makes some battalions not actually work (none that we're talking about, but they do exist).  

 

But regarding what it would "officially" be is 1 Mortal Nurgle Hero and 6 Mortal Nurgle (non-hero) units.  It is 6 and not 7 because the Mortal Nurgle Hero takes up one of the 7 Mortal Nurgle requirements (as per the FAQ).  

[Nico]

As I've said - it's clear that a hero is not a max for the Everchosen formations as the rules for the Khorne one specifically allows multiple heroes to be in it.

However Tom's wider point is valid as this FAQ answer taken literally could have consequences that should be checked.

It's also unclear that if something could tick 2 boxes whether it does so (your post above) - I would say probably not as then you're making the formation smaller. I would play that you choose one of the keywords from it and tick that box and that the other keywords don't matter and so don't violate the other maxima. The exception would be things like the Anointed or Treelord vs Treelord Ancient where they are being specific for balance reasons. 

[SlowPlay85]

Why would hero take the 7th it says a mortal nurgle hero Takes 7

[Tasman]

He's being too literal. All war scrolls are units. When forming a battalion, one hero must be designated as the general. All other units need the mandatory keywords to apply, i.e. chaos, nurgle, mortal, etc.

Nowhere does it state that any of the other units chosen CAN'T have the HERO keyword.

[SlowPlay85]

wheres does it say the leader of a battalion has to be a general?

[Tasman]

I guess it doesn't. 

[SlowPlay85]

Just figure i would throw this in so if u take blightguard formation its neg 1 to hit them right would u be able to stack with bloab in the army also?

[Arkiham]

Yeah, I run bloab as part of this one. for the -2 (hopefully ) 

[Thomas Lyons]

11 hours ago, SlowPlay85 said:

Why would hero take the 7th it says a mortal nurgle hero Takes 7

This all originates from this somewhat problematic battalion FAQ question (see attached image):

The FAQ respondent makes it clear that the An Anointed on a Phoenix (which is a single unit with both the Phoenix and Anointed keywords) "counts towards both the war scroll battalion's Anointed requirement and its Phoenix requirement."  He goes on to answer the original question about whether the proposed idea would work in the negative because he goes on to add that "you must meet any keyword requirements exactly."   This is verbatim from the FAQ.  

Thus, the following two clarifications are made from this single FAQ:

1. Units count towards multiple battalion requirements if they have the appropriate keywords, and
2. Keyword requirements must be met exactly.

Since every Mortal Nurgle Hero is a always also a Mortal Nurgle unit, then a Mortal Nurgle Hero will also always count towards one of the seven Mortal Nurgle unit requirements (as per clarification #1 above).  You can't add a second Mortal Nurgle Hero because it would violate clarification #2 (from above).  Some people are trying to argue that this only applies to the Spyreheart Warhost but I think that is a logical dead end, because you you make the claim about every of FAQ question as limited to only the units they talk about (which is nonsensical and forces confusion on every other unit and battalion that isn't talked about in the FAQ).  Nothing within the context of this response limits this to only this battalion, and in fact, the final sentence is very clearly the restatement of a general principle or guideline.   

This isn't a "too literal" reading; it is simple reading comprehension.



Edit: And let me be clear -- I would LOVE to be able to run multiple heroes in this battalion.  I have a huge hero heavy Nurgle Mortal force (see here) but this FAQ makes it clear that this can't be legally done, or at the very least it is contestable based on this ruling.  One runs the risk of being called out on it in Matched play and potentially losing all the battalion benefits and the invested points from your list if the TO rules against you (which by the FAQ RAW is well founded).  I'm not arguing against multiple heroes because I don't want other people to do it...this is directly affecting what I am forced to field and it sucks.  But this is the FAQ we are stuck with, not the one I want.  

[Taketheskull]

I'm just pleased my gaming group is more relaxed than yours Thomas ?

[Tasman]

Mine too. Whatever.

[Thomas Lyons]

4 hours ago, Taketheskull said:

I'm just pleased my gaming group is more relaxed than yours Thomas ?

My actual group is quite relaxed about these things and, if I asked them about this, they would likely let me do it.  But for organized matched play, people need to know and understand what are and aren't legal builds.  By the FAQ, including more than one hero in this battalion is an illegal build.  

[AmurayiWestgate]

A year later... how did TOs deal with this rule?

[Tasman]

On 10/29/2016 at 9:35 PM, SlowPlay85 said:

So the faq is official and therefore any other interpretation would be illegal so 1 hero and 7 units that would not include other heros 

Precisely why I don't partake in organized events. 

[Arkiham]

3 hours ago, AmurayiWestgate said:

A year later... how did TOs deal with this rule?

It wouldn't trigger a mortal wound , as the dice result is 

6 (rolled ) -1 (modifier ) 5 (result) so doesn't trigger the mortal wound.

 

But as of the new rules of 1. A roll of a 6 would always wounds. But the effect doesn't trigger as it's a dice result of a 5 lol.

 

 

[AmurayiWestgate]

I was more interested if TOs treat battalion requirements as maximums or minimums...

[Arkiham]

10 hours ago, AmurayiWestgate said:

I was more interested if TOs treat battalion requirements as maximums or minimums...

Oh, the "or any number of addtional units " thing ?

[AmurayiWestgate]

9 hours ago, Arkiham said:

Oh, the "or any number of addtional units " thing ?

Yupp. The whole topic Tom was referring to...

[Arkiham]

5 minutes ago, AmurayiWestgate said:

Yupp. The whole topic Tom was referring to...

Yeah it's been done that characters are units, pretty sure it's explained in a faq or ghb17

[Nico]

No.

Sayl isn't Nurgle by the way.

[Tasman]

Ah. My bad. I read it wrong.

Now to work on this build!

Thanks!