Payce Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 So I'll be attending a tournament at the end of January, and want to finish actually painting up everything for it. I've done a fair bit of practice games, the common denominator for them that I always use Neferata and the zombie battleline cheese, and I've found this works really well for me. Summoning, in particular, have been very successful, with Spirits Hosts and Dire Wolves popping up where needed to claim objectives or create a screen generally a solid strategy. However. I would prefer to create a list with the models I've got, yet I still want to win games. I realise that playing pure GAD isn't ideal for this, but let's run with it. The list I've come up with thus far is this: Neferata Wight King with Black Axe (general, Ring, Ruler) 3x10 Zombies (battleline cheese) 20 Grave Guard (Great Weapons) 3x3 Spirit Hosts (with 10 Dire Wolves in hand in case I want to summon in those instead of a unit of these) Mortis Engine Mourngul The models I have available to me in addition is about 30 each Spearetons, 30ish ghouls, 12 Horrors 2 Morghast Arcai, 6 Vargheists, 2 Terrorgheists, Zdragon, 5 Black Knights, 5 Hexwraiths, Corpse Cart, Necromancer, Banshee. I don't really feel like playing FEC even if I have the models for it though - I want summoning shenanigans. Any feedback would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 How much points will be the tournament? Cause it will change a lot the equilibrium in your chiices. SIncerly I'd hange from Neeferata cause I don't think in marched games is quite well based on almost half of her own rules not usable by her cause the points limit. And it would be also good if you'd say what type of style you'd like to use playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payce Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 2000 points (the list should have given that away, sorry for not including it). I prefer a mix of strategic positioning and board control, with a few select in-your-face threats. Summoning really suits me since it can do both, and Neferata is generally my favoured caster since her combat ability if used right can be insane (soften something up for a nice Dagger of Jet, go for the kill). I play the objectives, but always try to give the impression of going full-on Khornetard attack, to divert attention from my scoring chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I have different tastes in the units^^ ie: i'd prefer skeletons over grave guards. So I can only be slight useful in my advice. I'd start chosing the way to play, ok playig the khornetard but from what it's seeinble there is not even such a thing. Maybe it would be useful for you to use the warscroll battalion "legion of Death" so you can make a bit faster the base, but it would be add a lot of points so not being able to summon a lot. So if you want to summon I'd suggest you to point in giving the "evil blade" to make sure summoning instead of the ring to your general so to have the assurance to press really immediately and not be under the dice and you can even choose the dimension avalaible for the unit you decide to summon. I think in the style aggressive you want to realize is a good thing. Sincerly I'd prefer a unit of zombie to be 20storng from the start so that at least a unit can keep objectves and maximum you need an evocation to make it become 30 storng one or smply joint the other(s) together in the combination you prefer lately but still be strong and not consume a cast for simply reinforcing it. Morevoer when castin can be use both to give shield or damage opposite units. I'd start so, but you can say me if i'm totally out of your way to see or my suggestions seem coherent with your desire to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 quite new; why are 3x10 zombies a cheese battleline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimnaud Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Daniel said: quite new; why are 3x10 zombies a cheese battleline? Max utility for minimal investment. You take 3x10 zombies to pay the battle line tax. No problem there, lots of factions do it. But then you can melt those three units into one unit of 30 zombies. Now you've effectively gotten around the battle line tax with one buffed up unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 ah. Ok, thanks for the explanation. I though more in the likes of powerplay and OP listbuilding , but this is not like that really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 22 hours ago, Grimnaud said: Max utility for minimal investment. You take 3x10 zombies to pay the battle line tax. No problem there, lots of factions do it. But then you can melt those three units into one unit of 30 zombies. Now you've effectively gotten around the battle line tax with one buffed up unit. Sadly you can't do this as under rules for matched play you can't increase a unit above it's starting size. This includes merging Zombie units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, Beardyface said: Sadly you can't do this as under rules for matched play you can't increase a unit above it's starting size. This includes merging Zombie units. This really needs FAQing or at least answering by your TO beforehand as I see people answering this question in two different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 22 minutes ago, Beardyface said: Sadly you can't do this as under rules for matched play you can't increase a unit above it's starting size. This includes merging Zombie units. You can. The rule of the unit say that change the size referring of the unit itself. So it's avalaible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 59 minutes ago, deynon said: You can. The rule of the unit say that change the size referring of the unit itself. So it's avalaible. As the unit does increase it's size I've seen it ruled against. I agree though that you're not actually gaining any models which is the intent of the rule. It'd be one I'd check with the TO before I put my list together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, Beardyface said: As the unit does increase it's size I've seen it ruled against. I agree though that you're not actually gaining any models which is the intent of the rule. It'd be one I'd check with the TO before I put my list together. It doesn't increase its size. Shumble unit say "the merge and become a single unit". You don't change the size, you create a new units merging 2. The limit to the maximum dimension of the unit still remain, simply the unit now has a different numeber of models as refferring to that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 minutes ago, deynon said: It doesn't increase its size. Shumble unit say "the merge and become a single unit". You don't change the size, you create a new units merging 2. The limit to the maximum dimension of the unit still remain, simply the unit now has a different numeber of models as refferring to that rule. 3 x 10 becomes 30. So the unit's size has increased. There are no new models but the unit is 20 models bigger and 2 units have disappeared. IT doesn't matter that the ability says they can do this when GH has been interpreted to say no single unit can increase on it's starting value. Just check with the TO is safest bet and will avoid disappointment. I do agree with you in spirit of the rules but have seen and heard about it being disallowed so doesn't hurt to check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Yeah, I do agree that you should check with the TO about merging before finalizing the list. Furthermore, I would switch one Zombie unit out for a unit of 30 spears (you can summon a unit of 10 Zombies, but you can't summon a unit of 30 Skeletons). When you have Neferata, there is really no reason not to use her as your general - aside from Settra she is probably the most potent general we have in our Grand Alliance. In fact, I would be extremely tempted to run a super durable Death list. It doesn't quite build from the models that you have, so sorry about that. The list would look something like this: Neferata, general Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade and Infernal Standard, Cursed Book or Tomb Blade Necromancer, Ring of Immortality 30 Skeletons with spears 10 Skeletons with swords 10 Skeletons with swords 5 Black Knights 20 Grave Guard with Great Wight Blades 6 Spirit Hosts Mortis Engine Formation: Legion of Death In this list you have a bunch of healing and regen (Neferata, Mortis Engine, Legion of Death and possibly the Tomb Blade), you have 1-2 -1 to hit auras (Neferata, Cursed Book), you have loads of improved saves (Dark Mist together with Mystic Shield, Legion of Death and Infernal Standard means your Grave Guard will live forever), you have really nice spellcasting with 3 spells per turn and +1 to casting, you have a bunch of fast throw-away units that can block charges, take objectives and be generally annoying for you opponent (10 man Skeleton units and Black Knights), and you have a couple of units with good damage output (Skeleton spears, Grave Guard, Spirit Hosts and Neferata). I think this list would be really hard to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 43 minutes ago, Beardyface said: 3 x 10 becomes 30. So the unit's size has increased. There are no new models but the unit is 20 models bigger and 2 units have disappeared. IT doesn't matter that the ability says they can do this when GH has been interpreted to say no single unit can increase on it's starting value. Just check with the TO is safest bet and will avoid disappointment. I do agree with you in spirit of the rules but have seen and heard about it being disallowed so doesn't hurt to check! I always agree with preventing and asking to the TO, but I dont' agree on the theory. You haven't make disapper any unit. You used the rules of the unit. Ok that it's the only one to be so in all the game. But the rule itself specify that it's not an increase of the models of the units, but it's a new unit who has those models. Anyway we agree with each other. I heard even people who doesn't want to give GA allegiance abilities to FEC alliangiance cause can have only FEC allegiance abilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxk Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I think the Neferata, Mourngul combo is one of th best things you can have in AoS vs melee heavy armies! In the best case -3 to hit is ****** amazing! Most battleline units wont be able to hit you at all! Since you invest nearly 1k Points in 2 models, I would get some cheap smaller model to get contest objectives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I agree that it's a strong combination, but I'm not sure you can fit them both into a 2000 point list in an efficient way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead4Life Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Sure you can, just use the other 1160 points for zombies, dire wolves, necromancers and perhaps some catapults or banshees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hmm, I suppose so. You could for example fit in Neferata, a Mourngul, Necromancer, Vampire Lord, 70 Zombies, 10 Dire Wolves, a Corpse Cart and 2 Morghast Archai. You have a few hard hitting units, lots of magic aimed at hampering the opponent's offense, and your magic is further boosted by the corpse cart, a negative to hit aura that can potentially be concentrated up to -4 (put Cursed Book on the Vampire Lord). The Zombies can either be 40/20/10, and you then merge the 20/10 units if allowed, or you can go 40/10/10 and add something else worth up to 100 points to the army. Pretty nice, I'm tempted to try this out now. Another option would be to scrap the Dire Wolves as well, and put in a Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror for a fast-moving zombie horde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I think 3x10 zombie can t became 1 unit of 30 ..just u cant have 3 stendard guy into a unit..that could be cool anyway:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 It is very funny for me that whenever this zombie unit merge rule came, some order, chaos and destruction players came to the relevant topic saying that: "sadly you can not do that" then leave:) We, in Turkey play our tournament and league games with the merging the zombies if the total number of zombies does not exceed the unit's max limit in matched plays which is not against the macthed play summonining rule, at least in our eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 So in turkey u play 3x10 unit of zombie and u unit that into 1 of 30?? What about stendard guys? U play with one of them or 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Any model can be standart bearer, there is no limit to the number of musicians and std bearers. I myself include 2 std bearers in my 40 strong skeletons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 So every turn u got 2d6 zombies back?? Dats no balanced! I think in matched play u got a limit of 1 champ and stendar bearers or musicians per unit!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 No, you only ever get 1d6 back. The rule says "Any unit containing a standard bearer regenarates d6 modls", it doesn't say "A unit reganerates d6 models per standard bearer". There is nothing in the rules preventing you from having many of them, but I don't think I am the only one who would consider that very gamey and lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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