Beardyface Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said: We had serious discussion about that. But I cannot really say this is the case. It could be they just want to enphasize that the +1 to-hit only apply in combat phase so no shooting benefit from that. The 'combat phase' could be describing the 9' range effectiveness or describing the +1 to-hit effectiveness. Also the original wording is 'If this model ...uses his ability, until your next Hero Phase you can add one to the result of any hit rolls in the combat phase for this model and friendly Stormcast Eternity units within 9' of him.' Seems like the combat phase only apply to +1 hit rolls. and the 9' is working together with 'use ability'. Just imagine if you want to design some ability that wont effect shooting, won't you use the same term? Nope definitely only in combat phase. Wording is very clear here. Ability only works in the combat phase and has a 9'' range. Lots of abilities are similar. Seems to be how all bubble abilities work unless it specifically says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said: We had serious discussion about that. But I cannot really say this is the case. It could be they just want to enphasize that the +1 to-hit only apply in combat phase so no shooting benefit from that. The 'combat phase' could be describing the 9' range effectiveness or describing the +1 to-hit effectiveness. Also the original wording is 'If this model ...uses his ability, until your next Hero Phase you can add one to the result of any hit rolls in the combat phase for this model and friendly Stormcast Eternity units within 9' of him.' Seems like the combat phase only apply to +1 hit rolls. and the 9' is working together with 'use ability'. Just imagine if you want to design some ability that wont effect shooting, won't you use the same term? The wording is fine. The key bit is himself and units within 9''. If you're not within 9'' you can't use it. It doesn't put an affect onto other units they then carry around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I disagree on the MW front. This type of army can't deal with high armor and would get destroyed by any reliable MW output force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Malakithe said: I disagree on the MW front. This type of army can't deal with high armor and would get destroyed by any reliable MW output force Elite forces are an excellent match up for something like the Slayers and they tend to be the only high armour armies. 10 Protectors with 2-3 units of Judicators in support can drop Alarielle for example in one turn even when she is mystic shielded. Easily if she's not. The fact the whole army has -1 rend bar the Liberators is excellent. Hordes tend to be a far bigger problem as we just struggle to do enough wounds. I played a Bone Splitterz army with well over 200 wounds and you just can't get through it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Yeah Bonesplitterz are a wild card. So many bodies, crazy movement, crazy magic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 @Beardyface nice write up how are finding your army matches up against a competitive blood bound list? ive always found SBS struggles due to the high amount of attacks generated when blood bound die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, Lez said: @Beardyface nice write up how are finding your army matches up against a competitive blood bound list? ive always found SBS struggles due to the high amount of attacks generated when blood bound die? Cheers @Lez. I've had the great fortune of always avoiding them in a tournament to this point! Last 2 tournament I've had the following all as wins: 3 Stormcast (excellent match up for Slayers. 2 Death Nurgle mix led by Glotkin Khorne mix with three Blood Thirsters and some of the tricks. Lost to: Stormcast/Alarielle alliance (should have won this easily but got excited ?). Sedge's Bone Splitterz (was winning to the final turn but really only delaying the inevitable!). Against Bloodbound I guess I'd shoot off Wrathmongers and try and tag the edge of Blood Warriors with Protectors to limit their ability to pile in and attack me but all theory Hammer. I think Retributors protentially worst Paladin choice here. They destroy themselves if Wrathmongers get close and need all models in combat against Blood Warriors to hurt them. Decimators and Prime great here to lower bravery and increase BS rolls as running Bloodbound are harmless. Protectors are good as they only need Maces in combat and then stab over the top so small frontage. That'd how I'd approach it but you have the 'pleasure' of experience on this front! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skevin Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Warrior brotherhood for more good match up Vs Bonesplitterz and other massiv Wounds armies ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Skevin said: Warrior brotherhood for more good match up Vs Bonesplitterz and other massiv Wounds armies ? Not for me. As mentioned in an earlier post I think WB is too easy to pick apart and too reliant on the 5 wound Azyros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I agree with @Beardyface warrior brotherhood in nearly all of its guises can be picked apart. It has its good match ups don't get me wrong, but it's the flexibility for scoring that makes it strong in my opinion. I always find bloodbound a struggle if you don't have a gunline, and even then they normally have the bodies to soak up he shooting. If it's bloodbound with other chaos toys (shooting/magic) it's very difficult! That might be down to who my regular opponent is though. I do like the idea of 10 protectors in SBS though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skevin Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 What about the celestant-prime ? Good choice in this meta ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontooth Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 My list i have been trying to get to work. Celestant-Prime Lord Celestant on Dracoth Knight Venator 2 X Shield Liberators 2 X 5 Judicators 10 Protectors (4xstarsoul mazes) 5 Decimators (2xstarsoul mazes) Total 1960pts . Normally i put the libirators + judicators + Knight Venator on the board, and keep the reast of the board. I like this list - but i do have some problems - it is very centered damage - there is not that many damage dealers. The things i am not sure that works. Celestant-Prime - I like the idear og the prime, if people stay thight - but people can still spread out and still make it so the formation has problems landing. Lord Celestant on Dracoth - I like to run him with Glaive and the re-roll charge/run buff + the -1 more rend, but i haven't had him work for his points, i am unsure i he is worth it - i need to try him a few bit more time.. The Knight Venator - tryed him 3 times - have really earned hist points eighter of the times i think - i need to keep score next time. 2 X Shield Liberators - never do that much, they hold objectives and protect my Judicators 2 X 5 Judicators - I Need to have them, and they are good to put a few wound here and there) 10 Protectors (4xstarsoul mazes) - Love these guys - have never let me down, and the starsoul mazes makes them able to take hard targets 5 Decimators (2xstarsoul mazes) - Love these guys - have never let me down, and the starsoul mazes makes them able to take hard targets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trying to find out what else would work: 2 X Shield Liberators 2 X 5 Judicators 10 Protectors (4xstarsoul mazes) 5 Decimators (2xstarsoul mazes) 1260 pts - leaving 740 for a Celestant and what else. i was thinking of maybee the stardake - or something like the cheap celestant and something with punch. Or maybee fulminators - but i don't find the to be that dynamic with this warscroll. (4 fulminators and 1 On another note - who do you guys deal with Sylvaneth - i am have problem getting the threemen down - allways playing against 2+ reroll and one ignores rend. that list and the Nurgle mortal list - they are a real problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 @Skevin I have stopped using competitively since the GH has been out, that's just a personal thing as I've been using him in 90% of my games since Jan. I think to be honest I can see both arguments to why he works currently in the meta and why he doesn't. It really is down to list design and what you need to achieve with him in a particular mission. I can see me taking him again at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 26 minutes ago, Skevin said: What about the celestant-prime ? Good choice in this meta ? I've used him in every competitive game to be honest. His utility is fantastic and makes your opponent honest knowing he can drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 @Dontooth The list I use for SBS is in the first post. I tried the LCoD for a while but I only had two heroes in that list and struggled in 3 Places of Power. Swapped him out for foot variant and Venator. I also use 3 units of Judicators. 2 are unreliable I've found. 3 can be epic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontooth Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 40 minutes ago, Beardyface said: @Dontooth The list I use for SBS is in the first post. I tried the LCoD for a while but I only had two heroes in that list and struggled in 3 Places of Power. Swapped him out for foot variant and Venator. I also use 3 units of Judicators. 2 are unreliable I've found. 3 can be epic!!! I have been thinking about that also - What do you do with Sylvaneth - i am have problems with thier 2+ reroll and moving around all the time, the only thing i can think of is an good alfaskrike, but i don'r seem to hit hard enough. Also i hate that the command abillity from the foot guy is useless first turn they arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 @Dontooth Never really had and issue with Sylvaneth. Big monster with high saves have no mortal wound protection and hate Protectors. Most other things in the list fall over if you look at them! Play the scenario as well. You can normally kill of the non monsters very quickly and stop them scoring in lots of scenarios. In others smash the monsters and ignore the troops. I find that shooting of 3 x Judicators, LC and C-P very useful here for picking off the small stuff. Drop centrally and you can react to any jumping about. Concentrate fire until stuff dies though as their heal spells are annoying. That's the first principal against Sylvaneth. Overal though I don't think they're that strong an army, particularly against Stormcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Skyborn Slayer doesn't have very hard counters, that the most attractive part of it. Only those lists that run fast, with many wounds and don't rely on certain HQ can put Slayer in tough situation. The more elite troop and monster you put in your army, the more difficult you fight Slayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said: Skyborn Slayer doesn't have very hard counters, that the most attractive part of it. Only those lists that run fast, with many wounds and don't rely on certain HQ can put Slayer in tough situation. The more elite troop and monster you put in your army, the more difficult you fight Slayer. I'd say most horde armies are a tough match. You can get through them but not before they win scenarios. Moonclan are a nightmare with all the fanatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Beardyface said: I'd say most horde armies are a tough match. You can get through them but not before they win scenarios. Moonclan are a nightmare with all the fanatics. Fanatics might be a hard counter to any non-shooting table. Also the Bone splitz has sooooooo many wounds that I dont know how they are designed... Actually i believe if you want to do better in Tournament you need some luck by getting the right opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skevin Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Why pick a knight-venator and not an other hero ? why not knight-questor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Aeonotakist said: Fanatics might be a hard counter to any non-shooting table. Also the Bone splitz has sooooooo many wounds that I dont know how they are designed... Actually i believe if you want to do better in Tournament you need some luck by getting the right opponents. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardyface Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, Skevin said: Why play a knight-venator and not an other hero ? why not knight-questor ? Personal preference really though the army benefits from his ranged attacks and speed in grabbing objectives. Personally I don't really rate the Knight-Questor. Tanky but no damage output. Relictor is cool in a defensive list. Offensive lightning is more mortal wounds and -1 to hit which is even better. Castellant is also great but I think more so in a defensive list or one with the banner. He's left behind in SBS. Azyros has lots of utility. He's a mini nuke against Chaos and essential in Warrior Brotherhood. Banner does it's thing. Heraldor is cool in creating no go regions but making stuff run and charge potentially more powerful. Great with Dracoths. Errant-Questor has some cool rules and potentially uber tanky! Has taken out a Durthu for me before! Really depends on what you intend to achieve with your list and personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeonotakist Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 14 hours ago, Skevin said: Why pick a knight-venator and not an other hero ? why not knight-questor ? Knight Questor is quite OK in 1000 pts game with a relic to +1 damage. If you want to put battlion in 1000 game and have extra relic to spare, could consider Knight Questor. He is like a tough Pawn that keep moving towards enemy's HQ. If enemy targets him that is most likely waste of damage, if not, he is highly risky to enemy HQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zitroni Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 On 10/8/2016 at 8:37 PM, Beardyface said: Skyborne Slayers 1. Were you finishing set up first often? What did you do when you set up first? Let the other player have the first turn and then drop in the middle of the Objectives? 2. Do you have to protect your Lord Celestant? 3. What Artefacts are you using? 4. Counts "Hurled by Sigmar's Hand" as being moved in the movement Phase? I am thinking about Crossbows for Judicators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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