Fulminators or concussors?

[Jupiter]

So I have a box of draconian guard. I cant decide if i want to assemble them as concussors or fulminators. Which one is better on the table top? The rest of the army is very balanced: judicators liberators and some paladins.

[Nico]

Probably Fulminators as cheaper, better ranged attack and hard counter to gun lines - they also play like cavalry should do.

[Rex]

I've been debating the same thing myself and have decided to magnetize their arms, which turned out to be easy enough. Not sure if 2 fulminators have enough power on the charge to not get stuck for to long, but will hopefully soon get a chance to test this.

[Siegfried VII]

50 minutes ago, Nico said:

Probably Fulminators as cheaper, better ranged attack and hard counter to gun lines - they also play like cavalry should do.

This. The lower cost combined with the +1 save for shooting which is crucial makes up for a better all around unit. In my opinion even Desolators are a better choice than Concussors. If you use 6 of them their damage is greater and for 120pts less...

[kozokus]

I prefer the Concussor over all because of the special rule of the hammer.

If you make a six to hit, you inflict a nice mortal wound AND more important the ennemy cannot move 3" before attacking. Engage a big blob, hit hard and have few answers.

That beeing said the fulminators are my second choice (the dracoth breath attack is better btw). They are terrible in the second round of combat but if you combine them with the heraldor they are very nice.

I wont consider Desolator unless playing 8 of them. They have to be at least 6 to be better than concussors and they loose 1/3 of their power once you only have 5 of them. That is too big of an investment fo a game.

[Dracothjay]

I'll add my 2 pence. Fulminators all the way. The breath attack alone is amazing, especially combined with the Vexillor to teleport them 3" away from the enemy. Shooting phase comes up and you get your 2 mortal wounds for each wound success, then followed by a devastating charge. I think they are simply great.

[kozokus]

1 hour ago, Dracothjay said:

I'll add my 2 pence. Fulminators all the way. The breath attack alone is amazing, especially combined with the Vexillor to teleport them 3" away from the enemy. Shooting phase comes up and you get your 2 mortal wounds for each wound success, then followed by a devastating charge. I think they are simply great.

Great they are. But even charging, they are inferior to concussors in terms of dammage. The breath attack is the same unless they are in close combat.

It is just a choice between  :

Concussor : +40 pts, much  more dammage, hammer rule of non-pile in

Fulminators : , better save against shooting. better breath attack if you are in close combat.

The real issue with fulminators is that they are terrible in close combat if they are charged or in the 2nd round of close combat and they are only decent if they charge.

[Zen]

4 hours ago, Dracothjay said:

I'll add my 2 pence. Fulminators all the way. The breath attack alone is amazing, especially combined with the Vexillor to teleport them 3" away from the enemy. Shooting phase comes up and you get your 2 mortal wounds for each wound success, then followed by a devastating charge. I think they are simply great.

Fairly sure you won't be able to get 2 mortal wounds per wound success unless you're actually within 3" of the enemy unit, and the Knight-Vexillor sets up the unit more than 3" away from an enemy model. So the 2 wounds per wound success basically only comes into play when shooting while already in melee.

[Nico]

Quote

Fairly sure you won't be able to get 2 mortal wounds per wound success unless you're actually within 3" of the enemy unit, and the Knight-Vexillor sets up the unit more than 3" away from an enemy model. So the 2 wounds per wound success basically only comes into play when shooting while already in melee.

Edited 42 minutes ago by Zen

 

Exactly right. It's your reward for getting a double turn.

[Dracothjay]

Fair point, I brushed over the 'within 3"' wording. Thanks for the correction, would hate to cheat. 

[Dracothjay]

Also, I've posted a topic about fulminators and a Vexillor, but I'll ask on here.

 

is the vex + 4 concussors/fulminators more powerful than the vex + 10 retributors combo? And reading this topic it seems there is mixed advice about which is better. What unit am I better off with using if I want the vex + 4 dracothian guard? 

[Jupiter]

Thx alot for all the advise, its still a mixed result but perhaps that is a good sign. Iam probably leaning towards concussors due that I dont plan to use a vex.

Desolators are out of the question atm since I wont be buying more anytime soon. 

[Nico]

The Retributors strike me as guaranteed mortal wounds and more mortal wounds per point. 

Teleporting Cavalry always seems a bit counter-intuitive.

[kozokus]

13 hours ago, Nico said:

The Retributors strike me as guaranteed mortal wounds and more mortal wounds per point. 

Teleporting Cavalry always seems a bit counter-intuitive.

This.

They also have more Wounds. But 2D3 assured Mortal wounds is where the power lies. Let the dracoths run, their dirty movement is made for that.

[Jupiter]

2 hours ago, kozokus said:

This.

They also have more Wounds. But 2D3 assured Mortal wounds is where the power lies. Let the dracoths run, their dirty movement is made for that.

How do you mean they have more wounds? In the app they are all 5 wounds, which is pretty decent with their 3+save.

[Nico]

I think he means 5 wounds per model vs 3 per model for Retributors (not Concussors who are the same as Fulminators).

[kozokus]

Was talking about retributors(15) vs concussors(10) Another hot topic ^^

Back to fulminators vs concussors they all have the same resilience except vs shooting.

In terms of power they have the same impact per point cost But only the turn you charge. After that, the concussors are twice more powerful for only a 17% increase on price.

Lets say you are charging and shooting an ennemy with a 4+sav (quite common) :

Concussors : 9.4 wounds unsaved (rapported to a cost of 240 it means 8.1 wounds)

Fulminators 8.1 wounds unsaved

Then in the second turn :

Concussors : 9.4 wounds unsaved

Fulminators 4.6 wounds unsaved

 

[Jupiter]

Ah thx for clearing that up ^^. Also an interesting topic, but why not use both retributors and consuccors  (I will)

[kozokus]

33 minutes ago, Jupiter said:

Ah thx for clearing that up ^^. Also an interesting topic, but why not use both retributors and consuccors  (I will)

It is age of sigmar, you can use whatever you like there is almost no bad choice and an infinity of bad utilisations.

[AaronWilson]

I'm in the Fulminator camp, for the reasons Nico stated.

[Jupiter]

Alright I've build them as Concussors, reasons that they are more flexible strategically as they can be just as strong when they don't get the charge off. In my limited experience of AOS this can be very useful (dicegods are fickle). Fulminators are still high on my list when I eventually buy a new box.

[Dracothjay]

I've bought 4 dracothian guard and building fulminators. 

[Knight-Errant]

My 2 cents.....

Concussors all the way unless you have a Knight Heraldor close enough.  4-6 of them plus a Castellant

 

[Dracothjay]

A knight heraldor is what I will pair with fulminators. Get them to retreat then re-charge. Tasty.