AoS 3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

9 minutes ago, woolf said:

guys I have a new theory, could it be that they playtest batches of battletomes? so we don't actually have battletome power creep, we rather have "batch-creep". so eg idobeth and FS were part of an earlier batch while, KO, HoS, BoK, OBR, SBGL were all tested together and mainly against each other, hence they kinda stack up between themselves but as a group they are just stronger than the older books?

I've definitely heard that is a practice on the 40k playtesting team, albeit not from a direct source. However, Idoneth and Fyreslayers have high performing, good-throughout-the edition on either side of their releases, so it's hard to credit that as a sole or even dominant cause for balance issues.

[Ganigumo]

The idk tome has fallen hard, not sure why though since i'm not familiar with the book. They certainly have the tools to succeed but maybe they're overcosted or something. Fyreslayers are doing fine though.

Although even though what you suggest is probably somewhat right, kruleboyz have been bad from the start. Stormcast have fallen a bit but are still mostly fine if you ignore the unsolveable internal balance issue of that many scrolls. Ironjawz have fallen on hard times too and bonesplitterz have issues too. The one strong BS list was a skew drakkfoot big stabba spam list in a meta with prevalent ward saves and the whole army got nerfed hard for it, plus nobody plays the army so the sample size was always too small to really tell if its a problem.

 

I think its mostly that the warclans book was rushed out unfinished. It really needed a few more balance/editing passes.

[woolf]

yeah was just a thought mainly on basis of current pace of releases. I think its probably likely though that KB and SCE were tested against each other and that KB did fairly well in that matchup (not accounting for skew dragon/shootlists that probably had more limited testing), issue I'd that while the VEW mechanic makes us able to deal with low model count, fairly slow, high save but no ward save SCE, we really lack the tools to deal with other armies. think u are rigth that the book was a bit rushed without proper and broader testing, also clear that they were more cautious about abilities early on which has since relaxed a bit. IDK is another example were there are a lot of ifs and buts written into their abilities I think (far from as bad as KB ofc)

as for IDK dropping competitively it's likely that they were never that strong outside eelspam which was kinda killed with the changes to Akhelian King cmd ability (removed stacking) and pts increases (they were 140 iirc in the "glory days"), they did okish early but as books have now become stronger they don't really hold up, just too squishy to take punch and not killy enough to delete things as they used to, also smaller maps and other armies getting faster (or fast armies getting strong like NH) probably makes it harder to survive to t3.. sry wrong thread maybe but just some thoughts

cheers

[Popisdead]

Hi folks.  Long time, old git here and was gifted the ltd ed Kruleboy with the spear, shield, and vulture on his shoulder for Christmas.  

Is this a hero or basically unit champ?

 

I'm 100% new to Kruleboyz but their aesthetic harkens back to the old 1983 era Citadel Orcs which well,.. nostalgia is a cruel mistress (krule?).  

Before I paint this guy up should I spend an hour painting him or 5 hours? (hero level).

 

Thanks kindly!

[Ganigumo]

5 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Hi folks.  Long time, old git here and was gifted the ltd ed Kruleboy with the spear, shield, and vulture on his shoulder for Christmas.  

Is this a hero or basically unit champ?

 

I'm 100% new to Kruleboyz but their aesthetic harkens back to the old 1983 era Citadel Orcs which well,.. nostalgia is a cruel mistress (krule?).  

Before I paint this guy up should I spend an hour painting him or 5 hours? (hero level).

 

Thanks kindly!

He's a gutrippa unit champ, he might work as a killaboss on foot if you can find a stab grot and a 40mm base for him.

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

Hi folks.  Long time, old git here and was gifted the ltd ed Kruleboy with the spear, shield, and vulture on his shoulder for Christmas.  

Is this a hero or basically unit champ?

 

I'm 100% new to Kruleboyz but their aesthetic harkens back to the old 1983 era Citadel Orcs which well,.. nostalgia is a cruel mistress (krule?).  

Before I paint this guy up should I spend an hour painting him or 5 hours? (hero level).

 

Thanks kindly!

Like @Ganigumo said he's an alt gutrippaz champion but he's a bit weedy compared to others with slight differences in anatomy. I wonder if it was a different sculptor. 

Great sculpt with loads of character and worth a few extra mins of paint time. 

I actually hacked mine up for conversion bits as he just seemed too weedy. I used the helmet for a custom champion and the vulture will replace the little crow on the underworlds hero. I'd like to get another for a custom banner bear at some point. 

[Popisdead]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

Like @Ganigumo said he's an alt gutrippaz champion but he's a bit weedy compared to others with slight differences in anatomy. I wonder if it was a different sculptor. 

Great sculpt with loads of character and worth a few extra mins of paint time. 

Thanks both kind gents.

[Skreech Verminking]

On 4/18/2023 at 4:24 AM, Ganigumo said:

The idk tome has fallen hard, not sure why though since i'm not familiar with the book. They certainly have the tools to succeed but maybe they're overcosted or something. Fyreslayers are doing fine though.

Although even though what you suggest is probably somewhat right, kruleboyz have been bad from the start. Stormcast have fallen a bit but are still mostly fine if you ignore the unsolveable internal balance issue of that many scrolls. Ironjawz have fallen on hard times too and bonesplitterz have issues too. The one strong BS list was a skew drakkfoot big stabba spam list in a meta with prevalent ward saves and the whole army got nerfed hard for it, plus nobody plays the army so the sample size was always too small to really tell if its a problem.

 

I think its mostly that the warclans book was rushed out unfinished. It really needed a few more balance/editing passes.

I don’t think that idk are bad.

i’ve played against them a lot of games and lost every so gle one, while winning most against fyreslayers.

considering the amount of players currently playing idk, I would probably say that they have a similar problem as the seraphons do,

that being that they are just boring to play.

 

[Vasshpit]

Whatcha think about hobgrots going to min unit 20 for say 120? 

Was just thinking about little changes we could see. 

With some of the new scrolls coming out maybe even our vulchas will get the reserve treatment like the zombie dragon. I'd appreciate that. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Vasshpit

[woolf]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:01 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

I don’t think that idk are bad.

i’ve played against them a lot of games and lost every so gle one, while winning most against fyreslayers.

considering the amount of players currently playing idk, I would probably say that they have a similar problem as the seraphons do,

that being that they are just boring to play.

 

think its mainly a dmg (rend) issue, they don't really cut through high saves very well (no MW output either). If you match them with something that is light in the armour save department (looking at your dear rats there ^^) they will perform strongly. 

[Ganigumo]

55 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Whatcha think about hobgrots going to min unit 20 for say 120? 

Was just thinking about little changes that could we could see. 

With some of the new scrolls coming out maybe even our vulchas will get the reserve treatment like the zombie dragon. I'd appreciate that. 

hobgrots going to 20 for 120 would be a nerf I think, sure its more wounds/models per point, but the reason we're so reliant on hobgrots is because they're the cheapest screen we can get our hands on. If they went that way I'd be looking to gitz for spider riders again I think. It might open up some heavy hobgrot builds though, and I know when dominion came out some people wanted to do that with the army.

I could see vulcha's getting a reserve rule yeah, I'd like to see some put into the dirty trick options as well, like a board's edge ambush (like BoC) or hiding infantry units in terrain at the start of the game.

If we don't get a larger rewrite, I was thinking that maybe just making the grinnin blades subfaction ability an army-wide one, and rewriting/rebalancing the subfactions could do a lot. Meta-wise KB are almost more defined by that than they are by anything else.

25 minutes ago, woolf said:

think its mainly a dmg (rend) issue, they don't really cut through high saves very well (no MW output either). If you match them with something that is light in the armour save department (looking at your dear rats there ^^) they will perform strongly. 

I got smashed by them on the weekend with my gitz, which was mostly squigs so I guess that makes sense. 3 back-to-back combat phases of them fighting first was more than my list could deal with (high tide + d3 activate alongside the king).

[Vasshpit]

43 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

If we don't get a larger rewrite, I was thinking that maybe just making the grinnin blades subfaction ability an army-wide one

Thought about this as well. Like maybe start at 8-10" and add 2" for every shammy or just straight 12"  

[Vasshpit]

Seems we've got an event exclusive boss. 

I want one.  

 

[woolf]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

Seems we've got an event exclusive boss. 

I want one.  

 

gah hate it when they release these and living in a country with none of these events... was the shaman last time 😫

[Vasshpit]

3 hours ago, woolf said:

gah hate it when they release these and living in a country with none of these events... was the shaman last time 😫

Right there with ya. There's a big official event by me in June (Kansas City) and If its possible I'll grab a bunch of these for my TGA Kruleboyz fam. 

I'll try guys. 🤘

[woolf]

2 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Right there with ya. There's a big official event by me in June (Kansas City) and If its possible I'll grab a bunch of these for my TGA Kruleboyz fam. 

I'll try guys. 🤘

epic!

[Someravella]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:24 PM, Vasshpit said:

Right there with ya. There's a big official event by me in June (Kansas City) and If its possible I'll grab a bunch of these for my TGA Kruleboyz fam. 

I'll try guys. 🤘

In which events is this model sold? Only UK and US events?

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, Someravella said:

In which events is this model sold? Only UK and US events?

Not entirely sure. Read this off reddit this morning. 

However I have read about folks getting these commerative series models at different official events and as I've got one coming up very soon in my area I'm hoping. 

Like I said if I can I'll grab a bunch of the Kruleboyz ones and hook up the Kruleboyz tga fam. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Vasshpit

[Vasshpit]

Decently priced Mugruk Da Watcha up on Ebay currently. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145058723601?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=nn4w_VjHQt2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=26CORIaKQma&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited May 5, 2023 by Vasshpit

[Skreech Verminking]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:44 PM, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I've definitely heard that is a practice on the 40k playtesting team, albeit not from a direct source. However, Idoneth and Fyreslayers have high performing, good-throughout-the edition on either side of their releases, so it's hard to credit that as a sole or even dominant cause for balance issues.

I thought the same thing.

but then skaven got the book.

and with just disappointment, the book at least had no power creep at all

Edited May 6, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[woolf]

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I thought the same thing.

but then skaven got the book.

and with just disappointment, the book at least had no power creep at all

at least u got an updated model range! ...oh yeah that was the lizards too.. erhm yeah.. but hey u got cool lore!

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, woolf said:

at least u got an updated model range! ...oh yeah that was the lizards too.. erhm yeah.. but hey u got cool lore!

We did?

I must have missed it😂

seriously, I think your a few years to early with that joke

[woolf]

46 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

We did?

I must have missed it😂

seriously, I think your a few years to early with that joke

skaven always have a bit of special place as was my first models as a kid some 20+ yrs ago... at least I suppose some of those sculpts are still relevant 🙃

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, woolf said:

skaven always have a bit of special place as was my first models as a kid some 20+ yrs ago... at least I suppose some of those sculpts are still relevant 🙃

Funnily enough probably almost all of them are still in production😂

[Vasshpit]

I friggin hate limited edition... 

Can I just buy the damn thing, Geedubs...