mmimzie Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Summonable terrain is fine, and it give more to wizard. Its a game about magic after all. Though the summoning risk should match the reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 I think just the basic strategy with the Balewind now will be as follows. Am I within range of any offensive spell? If not what if my range is doubled? if not, will my support spell be effective? if not, do I attempt a cast balewind to try my offensive spell? Did it succeed ? if yes then again, is my offensive spell going to be worthwhile? if yes, upon who? If not, where will my support spell be best spent. Did the attempt fail ? ok move wizard. Compared to previously, trying it regardless of if it was worth the attempt or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucimus Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Anyone noticed that the Balewind is now worth 100 points! https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/ENG_Silver_Tower_PB.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Brucimus said: Anyone noticed that the Balewind is now worth 100 points! Now we can shift the discussion from ban or not ban to what is really important, is it really worth 100pt. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 It is for Kroak. Underlined ones are no longer able to use it. Daemonsmith (debuff) - maybe Drazhoath (borderline - for one turn only) Dark Elf Sorceress (debuff) - probably not Grey Wizard (debuff) - maybe Skink Starseer (debuff) - no Luminark (Burning Gaze - Very strong - makes it immune to melee and cover save - limits its shooting attack significantly Teclis - maybe Kroak - Very strong - makes it immune to melee and cover save Branchwraith (Reaping Bomb - Silverwood Circlet) - still very strong. Alarielle (borderline - for one turn only) Be'Lakor (debuff) New Gaunt Summoner (bye bye blocks of chaff) Arch Warlock (Chain Lightning) - maybe - but a less reliable Thundertusk or Warp Lightning Cannon. Lord of Change (Infernal Gateway - a less reliable Thundertusk) Count Mannfred (Wind of Death) - Good. Moonclan Grot Shaman (Curse of Da Bad Moon) Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, Nico said: It is for Kroak. Underlined ones are no longer able to use it. Daemonsmith (debuff) - maybe I am building a legion of azgorh army and I am thinking of leaving 100pt to either summon some fireborn or maybe a balewind if I am up against strong shooting and I dont need the range on my magma cannons. The option is probably good to have (ie I am gong to buy the model) but I think most of the time I am going to summon fireborns in the opponents backline if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 The fact they've nerfed it with the rules and added an 100 point cost to it makes it completely worthless I think for the vast majority of units. Good job games workshop you caved to peer pressure from a minorty % who don't know how to play. How do they justify the points cost on top of the nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 The far better solution would have been to make it a garrisoned building so you could still charge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 I liked the one before. as it didn't break immersion, fixed the abuse and made it a risk/reward spell. On a 7 it's not a easy cast for most and if it fails you get nothing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, Arkiham said: The fact they've nerfed it with the rules and added an 100 point cost to it makes it completely worthless I think for the vast majority of units. This is true, now it wount be a given. But IMO this will end all the ban discussions and we can start having the "normal" discussion, is it priced correctly which I think is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Good job games workshop you caved to peer pressure from a minorty % who don't know how to play. I am not sure if this is true. But I dont think we will ever know this for sure so lets leave that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Gunna note re "scrubs shouldn't alter rules," some factions just don't have an answer to it. What does an army with no Ranged do against Lord Kroak on one of these things, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Quote Gunna note re "scrubs shouldn't alter rules," some factions just don't have an answer to it. What does an army with no Ranged do against Lord Kroak on one of these things, for example? Kill all the scoring units and sit on the objectives - what you normally do vs Kroak - 620 points with this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucimus Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Gunna note re "scrubs shouldn't alter rules," some factions just don't have an answer to it. What does an army with no Ranged do against Lord Kroak on one of these things, for example? People would argue to leverage everything possible from your grand alliance to counter it, but that doesn't help armies which are sticking to an allegiance and don't have the units for it. Bloodbound and Ironjawz spring to mind. But i'm more fluffy when I organise my armies, so what do i know about competitive play. At least it wont shape the competitive meta by every army having it for free. At least there will be less need to force armies to bring a very long range counter to this specific scenario. Good balance in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Just now, Brucimus said: People would argue to leverage everything possible from your grand alliance to counter it, but that doesn't help armies which are sticking to an allegiance and don't have the units for it. Bloodbound and Ironjawz spring to mind. But i'm more fluffy when I organise my armies, so what do i know about competitive play. At least it wont shape the competitive meta by every army having it for free. At least there will be less need to force armies to bring a very long range counter to this specific scenario. Good balance in my book. I play Death, our Ranged potential is screaming at stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 It does kill off the ranged Death army where you add the Balewind to Count Mannfred with a Catapult and some Ushabti. Ironjawz actually have a good spell for using with their own Balewind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucimus Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said: I play Death, our Ranged potential is screaming at stuff. All the more need for GW to try and balance for all factions. But at the end of the day, at least it shows that GW are putting effort into balance after the fact. I think GW are doing the same with Bloodbowl teams by only releasing official rules after doing large amounts of play testing, hence player cost tweaks on human catchers and an additional ability on a Skaven player (cant remember which). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 With points the vortex is the only scenery/unit, which can be dismissed in the Hero phase.... Do i get the points back or do I have to pay every time 100 points a wizard summons a vortex (for example if the wizards want to move)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 no you dont need to pay as the BWV says in it's war scroll it can be dismissed and resummoned. However, your vortex and be irreverisble destroyed by the destruction ability to do. In which case you'd need to pay for another. I think the points are cool and make the piece very fair in matched play. As effectively it turns your wizards into a mortal wounding bolt thrower that ignores combat with +1 cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxk Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 100 Points is very harsh. Sure, on some Heroes its still useable....but instead of summoning it with a branchwych i'd rather get a second one from the start of the game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I think it's way to costly. There were ways to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I think 100 points seems fair. You boost any character by making them charge-immune and doubling their range (not to mention allowing them to look over some LOS blocking terrain). That alone would be worth 100 points on a profile buff, so I think it's fine overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 4 hours ago, Requizen said: I think 100 points seems fair. You boost any character by making them charge-immune and doubling their range (not to mention allowing them to look over some LOS blocking terrain). That alone would be worth 100 points on a profile buff, so I think it's fine overall. If it was easier to cast, or didn't take up a spell slot on failure, I might agree. As it stands, you have to pay 100pts, then attempt to cast on a 7+, if you fail that's one (normally your only) casting attempt used up. Frankly, I'm not sure many players would bother to risk that even if it was free. Bear in mind it also makes them immobile, and allows them to be seen over the same LoS blocking terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I find it interesting to note that the old warscroll is still up on the website as well, though — in the scenery rules pdf. Makes it a little harder to argue that it's not still legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Ignore the pdf off the website. they've not been updated since release. I belive the chaos lord still summons units on a 4+ from that. There's no point using the old warscrolls as tournaments won't allow it, if you want to use it with your mate, sure, go for it. but no one else will let you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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