AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[vinnyt]

@DocKeule that is an extremely good list. I think you're really going to like it! 

[Derek]

@DocKeule   Think you’re still short one unit to take that second aetherwings unit,  I was flipping through the core rules and you indeed can only take one  allied unit for every 4 units in your list.  It’s weird that nobody’s caught that but I guess it hasn’t been an issue since most people only take one allied unit. 

[Liquidsteel]

7 hours ago, Derek said:

@DocKeule   Think you’re still short one unit to take that second aetherwings unit,  I was flipping through the core rules and you indeed can only take one  allied unit for every 4 units in your list.  It’s weird that nobody’s caught that but I guess it hasn’t been an issue since most people only take one allied unit. 

You have misinterpreted the rule. 

It's 1 in 4 units can be allies.

Not 1 ally for every 4 regular units.

So his list is fine.

 

 

[Derek]

You’re right,  I second guessed myself.  

[Derek]

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Briomdar
    - Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

LEADER

Isharann Soulscryer (150)*

Isharann Soulscryer (150)**

Isharann Soulscryer (150)**

Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Lord of Storm and Sea
    - Artefacts: Armour of the Cythai

BATTLELINE

Namarti Reavers (170)*

Namarti Reavers (170)*

2 x Namarti Thralls (390)**

2 x Namarti Thralls (390)**

Namarti Thralls (130)**

Namarti Reavers (170)**

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1980/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

don’t know if this will play out well but a null deployment deepkin list could be fun

[umpac]

So IDK had a good showing at the Grand Clash CanadaGT, a 120+ people event, getting two 5-0s and taking 1s and 2nd. The lists were (don't know the subfactions):

1st: 30 thralls, 3x10 reavers, leviadon, lotann, eidolon, soulrender

2nd: Soulrender, Lotann, 10+10 reavers, 10+10 thralls, leviadon, turtle, 2+2 sharks

An IDK-player also won Sidney GT with: Blender king with flaming weapon, thrallmaster, tidecaster (gloomtide), 6 eels, 20 reavers, 10+10 thralls, Leviadon in Nautilar. He went for hunters and warlord so its an 8 drop.

Interesting to see that they all went for a turtle and 20-30 reavers. Also interesting to see 3 lists that all look VERY different all go 5-0. Namarti heavy, eels, sharks, all seem to work very well. Really says a lot about the internal balance of the book.

Edited April 27, 2022 by umpac

[Derek]

Im also noticing a trend that a lot of the really good players are drifting away from 1 drops. So many players that I hear talk to aos coach or warhammer weekly end up with 1 drops or 5-13 drops.   So I’m glad we’re finally getting away from gotta go first gotta go first outside of specific armies that want or need to be going first 

[Derek]

@umpac  sub factions for the two lists for the Canada tournament were mor’phann and nautilar.   Second place was the nautilar list and the player was Jordan from season of war.   

[Liquidsteel]

The FAQ is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/N6S9BeaUVFYCE1NT.pdf

The main bits:

 - King Lord of Tides confirmed once per game, period

 - Tsunami of Terror confirmed to be stackable

 - Aspect of Sea gets TOTEM keyword, same as the Storm

 - Lotann's once per game Ritual confirmed to not require the corresponding Tide to be in effect

 - Rune of Surging Gloomtide confirms you can still choose 1 big or 2 small boats to place

 

[Derek]

@Liquidsteel  well good thing that most people played as only one king could pull off that ability so nobody is going to be really upset by it lotann just got a big buff,   Yay namarti with the 5+ ward turn 1.    

[umpac]

23 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

 - King Lord of Tides confirmed once per game, period

 - Tsunami of Terror confirmed to be stackable

 - Aspect of Sea gets TOTEM keyword, same as the Storm

 - Lotann's once per game Ritual confirmed to not require the corresponding Tide to be in effect

 - Rune of Surging Gloomtide confirms you can still choose 1 big or 2 small boats to place

Wow, really didnt expect to have the Tsunami and Lotann ruled that way. Thats BIG.

[woolf]

so lotann can now basically pull old cloak anti shooting shenanigans rigth?

[Liquidsteel]

25 minutes ago, Derek said:

@Liquidsteel  well good thing that most people played as only one king could pull off that ability so nobody is going to be really upset by it lotann just got a big buff,   Yay namarti with the 5+ ward turn 1.    

I've been playing Lotann this way at club games since they ruled it that way at the WHW event so was half expecting it to go this way, still it's great to see it confirmed!

[Liquidsteel]

Just now, woolf said:

so lotann can now basically pull old cloak anti shooting shenanigans rigth?

No because Forgotten Nightmares requires targets to be eligible, and if you pop this on a unit they would not be eligible, so it would default to the second closest target.

[Derek]

@Liquidsteel  lotann is still out of stock in the US and I refuse to pay triple digits for a 35 dollar model to buy him off eBay.  Might just see if I can find a 3d print one until I can pick up the plastic one. 

[woolf]

4 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

No because Forgotten Nightmares requires targets to be eligible, and if you pop this on a unit they would not be eligible, so it would default to the second closest target.

rigth, makes sense. still really significant improvement in lotann who was already good in this iteration :)

[woolf]

btw what was the change to Namarti Savages rule?

[umpac]

1 hour ago, woolf said:

btw what was the change to Namarti Savages rule?

They changed the wording on the retreat part of the rule from "pick 3 units" to "use it 3 times". Before you had to use a single hero to give (up to) 3 different Namarti units the redeploy command, which was kind of awkward since they all needed to be within 9" of an enemy finishing its move. Now you can use it  in multiple locations and activating it from different heroes in the same phase, making it easier to use effectively.

Edited April 27, 2022 by umpac

[Derek]

Local commission painter of mine found lotann at his local store so yay I get to start playing with the cheap as chips absolute buff hero.  

[Siorra]

Were people not already playing Lotann this way? I thought the edit was just for added clarity but it was pretty widely accepted he can give out any buff to any unit once.

The biggest surprise for me is they haven't changed his aura to exclude mounts. Must be intentional if they didn't FAQ it. Either that or I'm overestimating GW's competence. 😅 

[Derek]

@Siorra   I was surprised too and as far as I understood it not everyone played lotann that way.  I’m just happy I finally got him and that I can use him that way.   Got my boats this week got all my thralls and characters this week got lotann.  It’s like the stars are lined up perfectly for me lol

[Chronos]

Had my first game in a while and first game with new IDK against my friend's Blade of Khorne. I took an Eel heavy list with King, Lotann, 6 Morsarr, 3 Morsarr, 20 Reavers, and 2x2 Sharks all in a one drop.

Quick synopsis, we were both pretty rusty, but his turn two he failed a re-rollable 9" charge with his 'Thirster which really hurt, although probably wouldn't have changed things too much. I took out about half his army on one side by the bottom of turn 2 using the King's ability, and won the roll off for turn three and he conceded. Lucky, but that was actually part of my gameplan: go one drop, give him first turn in the first two rounds and try for winning three.

My takeaways are pretty obvious: Blender King is ridiculous but very susceptible to mortal wounds and chip damage, Reavers do some really nice damage, they killed about 13 Blood Warriors in 1.5 turns including them getting charged, Sharks are nice damage but I didn't really get them into combat, and 6 Eels is just impossible to all get into combat effectively dropping their damage output.

I think going forward I may change things up and take more Namarti. 20 Reavers wil probably be a staple for me, they just add a nice element to keep my opponent honest. I'd also like to keep close to four Sharks. Need to get my Turtle painted up too and try it out.

I'm kind of leaning towards a lot of Vinny's conclusion in that IDK seem like a good shooting army with decent melee damage to sprinkle around. I'm also not 100% sure the King is an auto include, but I don't have enough games in to know for sure.

Two lists I may build towards without Eels that are similar but different Enclaves, please let me know what you think!

Nautilar: Blender King, Lotann, Leviadon, 20 Reavers, 20 Thralls, 3x1 Allopexes in a one drop.

Morphann: Soulrender, Lotann, 20 Reavers, 20 Thralls, 10 Thralls/Reavers, Leviadon, 2 Allopex, 1 Allopex, one drop, possible turn the Tides.

Both are 1960 or 2000 if I sub in the extra Reavers instead of Thralls.

I feel like the Nautilar list gives me three good hammers and the Sharks to harass, and a good amount of shooting.

The Morphann is interesting, especially flipping the Tides, it makes my opponent either wait for turn three to really engage and get shot, or if they do get into me turn two which seems to be when things start to go down, I've got my Namarti on probably 4+/5++, making it 3+ if needed and near the Turtle, and then bringing 4-6 back, with the ability to throw out another 5+ Ward if needed, pluuuuus getting a cover save in round one if alpha'd. Not that the Namarti become HGB of old, but could probably surprise an opponent and then get striking first probably on 3/2/-1/2.

What I'm not sure about is bringing in two Soulrenders. I worry it wouldn't be worth it but then again, bringing back 8-12 Namarti automatically over two units is pretty decent.

I'll have to get moving on my Turtle and get some games in.

 

[Chronos]

I just realized that Jordan at Season of War posted a recap of his 5-0 list and games on their youtube, and he touches on some of the things I had considered. Since he's an infinitely better player than me I'd definitely say go have a watch/listen. He used the two boats really well and I hadn't even considered them in my plans, hah.

 

[vinnyt]

Alrighty, here's my latest attempt at some lists after getting in a few more reps with the book. I still believe nautilar is the best enclave for how I like to play the game. 

 

Akhelian King w/ Polearm

Tidecaster general w/ tideflip and bonus boat

 

10 Thralls

10 Thralls

10 Reavers

Ancient Tortle (Hunters)

2x2 Sharks (Hunters)

 

Rest is in battle regiment as a 4 drop army. Flipping the tides is super cool, not necessarily because you get to fight first in combat (although that is super cool), but also because it basically forces opponents to stay out of combat with you. Nobody wants to charge 2 sharks that always fight first and can unleash hell. Which means that I get another entire shooting round out of them without having to worry about losing output before high tide comes around. 

Granted, I have to forsake the blender king to do this, but the amount of times he died to chip damage was getting annoying. He still hits pretty hard with the polearm and lets me keep the high tide effect rolling onwards in turn 1 (if a good opportunity presents itself) or turn 3. 

I've always been a fan of bonus boat and I'm still a fan of bonus boat. 

As for the ever-delightful deepkin shooting, this list packs 34 reaver equivalents, which is a moderate amount, but hopefully sufficient to ruin some days at range. 

20 Thralls to screen and asf in turn 2 is fairly spicy, as they'll be quite defensible in turn 1. Reavers do reaver things. 

 

Now, if you want to embrace the skew/are playing against nurgle where combat is less than ideal and there aren't many monsters about...

Polearm King

Tidecaster with tide flip and bonus boat

Ancient Tortle

2x10 reavers

2x2 sharks

Lifeswarm

 

This list brings the shots. 44 reaver equivalents will put in WORK and the lifeswarm can heal the tortle/sharks/return models to the reavers. You can also hide the reavers in boats to make them tougher to take out. Meanwhile, the core of the list is really 2x2 sharks and the ancient tortle. 

This army is a 1 drop because either I get to perform a reasonable alpha strike with shooting while not worrying so much about being doubled since I asf in turn 2, or I choose to go second, still shoot a lot, and then my opponent has to contend with possibly being doubled and absorbing 88ish reavers worth of shooting before 4 sharks and a nautilar leviadon hit them in combat. 

 

I'll be testing these lists out on saturday against some competitive tournament lists to see how they do! 

[Chronos]

11 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

Alrighty, here's my latest attempt at some lists after getting in a few more reps with the book. I still believe nautilar is the best enclave for how I like to play the game. 

 

Akhelian King w/ Polearm

Tidecaster general w/ tideflip and bonus boat

 

10 Thralls

10 Thralls

10 Reavers

Ancient Tortle (Hunters)

2x2 Sharks (Hunters)

 

Rest is in battle regiment as a 4 drop army. Flipping the tides is super cool, not necessarily because you get to fight first in combat (although that is super cool), but also because it basically forces opponents to stay out of combat with you. Nobody wants to charge 2 sharks that always fight first and can unleash hell. Which means that I get another entire shooting round out of them without having to worry about losing output before high tide comes around. 

Granted, I have to forsake the blender king to do this, but the amount of times he died to chip damage was getting annoying. He still hits pretty hard with the polearm and lets me keep the high tide effect rolling onwards in turn 1 (if a good opportunity presents itself) or turn 3. 

I've always been a fan of bonus boat and I'm still a fan of bonus boat. 

As for the ever-delightful deepkin shooting, this list packs 34 reaver equivalents, which is a moderate amount, but hopefully sufficient to ruin some days at range. 

20 Thralls to screen and asf in turn 2 is fairly spicy, as they'll be quite defensible in turn 1. Reavers do reaver things. 

 

Now, if you want to embrace the skew/are playing against nurgle where combat is less than ideal and there aren't many monsters about...

Polearm King

Tidecaster with tide flip and bonus boat

Ancient Tortle

2x10 reavers

2x2 sharks

Lifeswarm

 

This list brings the shots. 44 reaver equivalents will put in WORK and the lifeswarm can heal the tortle/sharks/return models to the reavers. You can also hide the reavers in boats to make them tougher to take out. Meanwhile, the core of the list is really 2x2 sharks and the ancient tortle. 

This army is a 1 drop because either I get to perform a reasonable alpha strike with shooting while not worrying so much about being doubled since I asf in turn 2, or I choose to go second, still shoot a lot, and then my opponent has to contend with possibly being doubled and absorbing 88ish reavers worth of shooting before 4 sharks and a nautilar leviadon hit them in combat. 

 

I'll be testing these lists out on saturday against some competitive tournament lists to see how they do! 

Definitely thinking along the same lines. I'll be really interested to see how you do.