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AoS 3 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chumphammer

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23 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Seems like there‘ll be bad times ahead then

I'm just worried that the combination for MorathiBowSnakes and how good DoK were for most of the lifespan of the previous book has convinced GW that DoK are still a fundamentally good army that just needs a few tweaks.

This is not the case. The last battletome was an almost exact reprint of the first book, except with an across the board, numerical nerf for the melee components of the army. The transition into 3rd saw extremely aggressive point changes compared to the rest of the field. A DoK book that's expected to compete on Aelfs being largely the same as they are right now, is going to be extremely suspect.

I would argue that our core Cauldron+WE+SoS+Blood Sisters+Khinerai setups from the olden days are Slaanesh level, if not worse thanks to all the nerfs we've gotten in the 4 years since our original book dropped.

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1 hour ago, LeviathanL said:

I think if Umbraneth are planned anytime soon, the dok battletome will have them listed as allies or coalition. I saw that tease as the only reason to update their battletome so soon.

While I'd love that, I'd also be happy with darkling covens as coalition option, perhaps in a har kuron subfaction. Based on the underworld band males are less discriminated against now maybe.

naa they would just add it in the future FAQ's 

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12 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Well, today's Warhammer Community article suddenly made a 5x Avatar (2x Cauldrons, 3x Avatar) list sound pretty exciting to me...

The one unit...the ONE unit in the book I didn't want to be good. It's not even a model, it's just a chunk of the Cauldron they broke off and gave a datasheet to avoid having to make a new mold.

Also, Cauldrons are behemouth's now (leaked earlier) so 4 max.

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5 minutes ago, Rebluff said:

The one unit...the ONE unit in the book I didn't want to be good. It's not even a model, it's just a chunk of the Cauldron they broke off and gave a datasheet to avoid having to make a new mold.

I have a 3D printer, lots of cool Dark Elves that can be scaled up to look good on a 40mm and painted like obsidian.  Its a good day for me!

I also have a stack of extra 'official' avatars from all my start collecting kits for folks that don't like 3d prints.  

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11 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

I have a 3D printer, lots of cool Dark Elves that can be scaled up to look good on a 40mm and painted like obsidian.  Its a good day for me!

I also have a stack of extra 'official' avatars from all my start collecting kits for folks that don't like 3d prints.  

It ebay/print small Morathi Models and cut up old avatar models to make it look like someone tore down the old Avatar Statue and built a Morathi statue on top of it. Even then i'm still very 'meh' on them.

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21 minutes ago, Rebluff said:

Also, Cauldrons are behemouth's now (leaked earlier) so 4 max.

I'm pretty sure I saw a larger version of the Pitched Battles Profiles entry that included Cauldrons as Behemoths that included a note for Hagg Narr that allows for an extra Cauldron that doesn't take a Behemoth slot... which would allow for 5, so long as one of them is a Cauldron.

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30 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

I'm pretty sure I saw a larger version of the Pitched Battles Profiles entry that included Cauldrons as Behemoths that included a note for Hagg Narr that allows for an extra Cauldron that doesn't take a Behemoth slot... which would allow for 5, so long as one of them is a Cauldron.

Yes, HaggNar gives a SQ cauldron or HQ cauldron for "free" in terms of behemoth

My HaggNar list is 
HaggNar
HagQueen on Cauldron 
HagQueen on Cauldron 
Bloodwrack Medusa 
Bloodwrack Medusa 
10 Witch Aelves 
10 Witch Aelves 
10 Witch Aelves 
10 Blood Sisters 
Avatar of Khaine 
Avatar of Khaine 
Avatar of Khaine 
Heart of Fury 
Emerald Life Swarm 


 

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There is a number of key changes in the book

We have a ton of diversity and options now and all subfactions will see play

Haggnar 5++ is confirmed gone though 

We also have a ton of ways to get +1 to blood rites now so you can easily have 1 or 2 units on turn 2/3 at max rites

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20 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

There is a number of key changes in the book

We have a ton of diversity and options now and all subfactions will see play

Haggnar 5++ is confirmed gone though 

We also have a ton of ways to get +1 to blood rites now so you can easily have 1 or 2 units on turn 2/3 at max rites

You got access to sources, or links for more information?  

I'm dieing to start putting together a fuller picture of things, and the trickle I've gotten so far is just frustrating :)

I know they implied the Medusas are going to have a mechanism for +1 Blood Rites, but what is it?

Avatars seem a lot better in general now, but what sort of cost increase is attached?

Devoted Disciples being gone is unsurprising, but what Command Traits made the cut?

Did any of the subfactions see surprising changes from their current basic trait?

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Just now, KrispyXIV said:

You got access to sources, or links for more information?  

I'm dieing to start putting together a fuller picture of things, and the trickle I've gotten so far is just frustrating :)

I know they implied the Medusas are going to have a mechanism for +1 Blood Rites, but what is it?

Avatars seem a lot better in general now, but what sort of cost increase is attached?

Devoted Disciples being gone is unsurprising, but what Command Traits made the cut?

Did any of the subfactions see surprising changes from their current basic trait?

Yes...but cant share atm. Nda lifts Sat

medusa do have a mechanic to give a unit of snakes +1 (can only go on 1 unit, but 2 can put on different units)

No surprises to sub factions, they all got knocked down to 1 thing really. Hagg nar is +1 to rites, Khelibron is teleport, draichi run and charge yadda yadda yadda

 

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1 hour ago, Chumphammer said:

We have a load of options and lots of outside options also 

All sub factions have play

While I would love that to be the case, people have said that about a lot of the books GW has released and it hasn't really been true for a 6 subfaction book yet. Heck, people said that about the DoK book and Hagg Narr and Khellebron were the only ones that weren't just a straight up meme.

 

2 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Yes...but cant share atm. Nda lifts Sat

medusa do have a mechanic to give a unit of snakes +1 (can only go on 1 unit, but 2 can put on different units)

No surprises to sub factions, they all got knocked down to 1 thing really. Hagg nar is +1 to rites, Khelibron is teleport, draichi run and charge yadda yadda yadda

 

Ooof.  Not being locked into a terrible relic is nice but losing Devoted Disciples and the -1 to hit in shooting is A LOT of army-wide power that's going to need to be made up elsewhere.

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11 minutes ago, Mutton said:

How hard was Morathi bonked?

I really hope they focused on the CA interaction and not Morathi herself. Morathi is an awesome character, but she saw the representation she did because her CA let blood stalkers vomit out 60 shots per turn.

Without that Command Ability, I personally think she'd probably be too expensive now. Let alone after some nerfs.

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28 minutes ago, Rebluff said:

I really hope they focused on the CA interaction and not Morathi herself. Morathi is an awesome character, but she saw the representation she did because her CA let blood stalkers vomit out 60 shots per turn.

Without that Command Ability, I personally think she'd probably be too expensive now. Let alone after some nerfs.

CA stayed the same but its once a game now 

The faction heroic action cant be used by monster so shadow queen doesnt benefit from it 

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1 hour ago, Eternalis said:

But ?... The "core" units of this temple already run and charge !
Maybe that would be the new melee melusai temple.

I presume this meant "retreat and charge" as per current, but "run away and charge" was abbreviated and the confusion missed. 

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This stuff went up on the whattsapp group. Added notes on stuff that wrong or question mark

 

 

Temples:

Hagg Nar: +1 Blood Rites, can have a cauldron as a free behemoth
Khelt Nar: retreat and charge 
Khailebron: CA teleport at end of movement
Draichi: extra -1 rend on WE and SoS 
Zainthar Kai: snakes attack when they die (and snakes battleline)
Kraith: SoS can fight again on 4+

Other generic stuff:
Spell lore: mirror dance got changed back to 1.0 version
New command trait: 4+ rally 
New artefact: shutting down inspiring presence and rally within 9", goes to 15" if you kill a model. (Not new but old crown of woe rewritten)

Leaders:
Morathi: 680 points, CA is 18” now, no more +1 to cast.
Hag Queen: Witchbrew back to automatic again, but changed to +1 to blood rite.
SQ on Cauldron: has +1 to prayers now (wholly within 9")

Units:
Witch Aelves and SoS: Bucklers give +1 to save characteristic now.
Spear snakes: Doing mw’s on 2+ now (if within 1 after unit attacks)
Heartrenders: no more extra rend when set-up.
Lifetakers: no more extra rend on the charge. (Also still 4+ to move)

Points:
680 Morathi
110 Hag Queen
90 Gladiatrix
315 SQ on Cauldron
130 Medusa
115 Ironscale
150 Khainite Shadowstalkers
180 Blood Stalkers
140 Blood Sister
120 Witch Aelves (actually 115)
95 Khinerai Heartenders

 

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