Stormcast Help

[Coganaut]

Hey everyone, i ahve been trying out matched play a lot lately and cant seem to ever pull out a win with my stormcast. Was hoping you all could help out some. We have been doing around 1250pt games and roll for the missions and terrain set up. Im not sure if i need list building or tactics help to be honest. I would like to stay completely as stormcast. Dont mind using the extreamis stuff, just would need to purchase it. 

 

Here is a list of duders I have ready to go:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth

Lord Celestant

Lord Castellant

Gryph hound

Lord Relictor

Knight Questor

5 Judicators

15 liberators

5 Retributors 

6 Prosecutors

I can build 5 more liberators if it would help out any, which i doubt it will.

 

I have played a lot of Chaos players. One dude uses Skarbrand just about every game, another that runs Vanguard with a bunch of blood reavers and skullcrushers. Needless to say i normally need to throw everything at skarbrand/vanguard to kill it while the little guys grab objectives, or grab objectives and let them slaughter units one by one. 

Also played dwarves for the first time the other day and learned to power of an engineer and flame cannon combo is terrifying against my army, as is anything that can dish out mortal wounds it seems. 

I dint mind losing but losing 11 out of 11 games is a bit discouraging. I can do fine with my my blood bound but they are completely different and stormcast are the ones that have the models and story that I like. Have honestly been debating on just switching to a different army all together. Thanks for any help you all can offer.  

[amysrevenge]

You're missing a couple of the key pieces that make Stormcast work, especially at small sizes.

Here's something I threw together, that would need two more pieces you don't already have.

The Vexillor will teleport the Retributors to help clear out your Skarbrands or your warmachine batteries.  And the Heraldor can really help blast away at clumped up enemies, make them spread out.

It could be better yet - I'm assuming you have the hammer Prosecutors, but I actually like the javelin ones better.

Leaders
Lord Celestant (100)
Knight Vexillor (200)
Knight Questor (100)
Knight Heraldor (120)

Units
Judicators x 5 (160)
Paladin Retributors x 5 (220)
Liberators x 10 (200)
Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers x 3 (100)
Gryph-Hound x 1 (40)

Total: 1240

[Coganaut]

Hey thanks for the help! I am not opposed to buying new units as long as i know they are worth buying. You are correct about the prosecutors, I should have specified in my op. I do have a few questions if you wouldnt mind helping a bit more. 

With the Prosecutors are they also best used to hunt down specific units/heros ect? Normally i send them in to take something down quickly and then afterwards they get taken down. Is this the best way to use them or just a waste of points on my part?

I notice that the javelin version is best used for staying back and throwing the javelins. So if their primary use is shooting would you say these are more useful than judicators as they are more mobile?

Finally, is there a reason to run the liberators in a group of 10 over 2 groups of 5? Typically I use them in 2 groups of 5 and was just curious if there was any benifit to doing it one way or the other. 

Thanks again!

[amysrevenge]

Almost any of the Heroes are worth their weight. A Knight Venator might also be a good addition, depending on how you want to go.

I actually wouldn't know what to do with the hammer Prosecutors - I haven't been able to find a way to make them work.

I do like the way Judicators and javelin Prosecutors work together; they give some target selection flexibility.

I feel naked when my "anvil" unit is minimum sized.  Probably a psychology thing. 

[Turragor]

Hammer Prosecutors are often used wrong. I'm guilty of it but that's mostly as I've only 3 starter set boyos painted. Need to get me another 3 at least.

They're:

Cheap at 6 for 200

Fulfill the 'skirmish' role (can harry and hunt and take objectives)

Ranged 2 attacks (weak but can pepper and pick off)

Melee 2 attaks (with rerolls on 1s for dual hammers. Take with 2 x Grand Hammers/Swords they pack more punch)

2 wounds a piece (can benefit from heals and such)

Decent save at 4+ for a skirmish unit

I want to get more use out of them. To do so I need minimum units of 6 (hammers)

Javelins, now they're different. Used right I believe they're more damage per model than judicators (it might be more damage than a full unit of judicators outside 9" but don't quote me)

The only reason I haven't more now is that they're a pain to paint and transport!

Story time. Clever use I've seen for them within the past week gaming (against me this was unfortunately) was an opponent that:

Cast mystic shield and castellant ability on them - they've now a 2 plus save healing on a 5+ iirc. They've 12 inch move and run/up to 18" charge, he placed them in a real nice spot forcing me to engage to reach an objective which a castellant took behind them together with the wiz.

I couldn't shift them honestly. The castellant could recast along with the wiz and they had a continuing save of 2+. When SC pack -1 rend at most it means that I wasn't shifting them fast. I charged concussors in after 3rd turn and even they were having issues.

In the end it required retributors (free after blasting another unit) exploding the castellant and my own prosecutors (3 no special) driving the wizard off to allow me to down them.

I lost as they were such an effective shield wall - which I'd never seen before.

And yes, a lot of units would do better as a shield wall with the same buffs but getting that wall into position with the speed of the prosecutors was the real cute thing here, I liked that.

[Mikosan]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Hammer Prosecutors are often used wrong. I'm guilty of it but that's mostly as I've only 3 starter set boyos painted. Need to get me another 3 at least....

Story time. Clever use I've seen for them within the past week gaming (against me this was unfortunately) was an opponent that:

Cast mystic shield and castellant ability on them - they've now a 2 plus save healing on a 5+ iirc. They've 12 inch move and run/up to 18" charge, he placed them in a real nice spot forcing me to engage to reach an objective which a castellant took behind them together with the wiz.

I couldn't shift them honestly. The castellant could recast along with the wiz and they had a continuing save of 2+. When SC pack -1 rend at most it means that I wasn't shifting them fast. I charged concussors in after 3rd turn and even they were having issues.

In the end it required retributors (free after blasting another unit) exploding the castellant and my own prosecutors (3 no special) driving the wizard off to allow me to down them.

I lost as they were such an effective shield wall - which I'd never seen before.

And yes, a lot of units would do better as a shield wall with the same buffs but getting that wall into position with the speed of the prosecutors was the real cute thing here, I liked that.

Thanks for sharing this!  I may have finally found a use for my 6 prosecutors, you know, other than dying.  Think you are right about the speed being a big plus, flying to an objective or just getting in the face of a unit you need to stall seems a pretty legit use of the buffs.  Gonna try it this weekend

[Coganaut]

4 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Almost any of the Heroes are worth their weight. A Knight Venator might also be a good addition, depending on how you want to go.

I actually wouldn't know what to do with the hammer Prosecutors - I haven't been able to find a way to make them work.

I do like the way Judicators and javelin Prosecutors work together; they give some target selection flexibility.

I feel naked when my "anvil" unit is minimum sized.  Probably a psychology thing. 

Im going to be honest, everyone raves on how good judicators are but I haven't seen it. This could be because i run only one unit of them. Normally they are shot off the board first turn or taken out by some other shenanigans.

I can understand that about your anvil unit. My thoughts were run two min units vs a unit of 10 to assist in caping obj. 

3 hours ago, Turragor said:

Hammer Prosecutors are often used wrong. I'm guilty of it but that's mostly as I've only 3 starter set boyos painted. Need to get me another 3 at least.

They're:

Cheap at 6 for 200

Fulfill the 'skirmish' role (can harry and hunt and take objectives)

Ranged 2 attacks (weak but can pepper and pick off)

Melee 2 attaks (with rerolls on 1s for dual hammers. Take with 2 x Grand Hammers/Swords they pack more punch)

2 wounds a piece (can benefit from heals and such)

Decent save at 4+ for a skirmish unit

I want to get more use out of them. To do so I need minimum units of 6 (hammers)

Javelins, now they're different. Used right I believe they're more damage per model than judicators (it might be more damage than a full unit of judicators outside 9" but don't quote me)

The only reason I haven't more now is that they're a pain to paint and transport!

Story time. Clever use I've seen for them within the past week gaming (against me this was unfortunately) was an opponent that:

Cast mystic shield and castellant ability on them - they've now a 2 plus save healing on a 5+ iirc. They've 12 inch move and run/up to 18" charge, he placed them in a real nice spot forcing me to engage to reach an objective which a castellant took behind them together with the wiz.

I couldn't shift them honestly. The castellant could recast along with the wiz and they had a continuing save of 2+. When SC pack -1 rend at most it means that I wasn't shifting them fast. I charged concussors in after 3rd turn and even they were having issues.

In the end it required retributors (free after blasting another unit) exploding the castellant and my own prosecutors (3 no special) driving the wizard off to allow me to down them.

I lost as they were such an effective shield wall - which I'd never seen before.

And yes, a lot of units would do better as a shield wall with the same buffs but getting that wall into position with the speed of the prosecutors was the real cute thing here, I liked that.

Ha i love the idea of a castellant buffing up some hammer prosecutors. This seems like a good use of them, wwill give it a go next game. Plus if they are grabing obj, that frees up my unit of liberators to be a more useful anvil. 

Hmm which is better though a single castellant and a wizzard or could I just use dual castellants to double buff them or even the Retributors before i zap them in at a unit? Only ask because i do want to keep it all as stormcast.

 

One other question for everyone. Are formations useful at all? It seems like some of them are great. Also seems that everyone i bought on the AoS app didnt get any points in the Generals handbook.

[Darin Paul]

I had a similar question in a previous thread regarding points after purchasing the generals handbook in the AoS app.  Once you've added a unit within the my battle in the app, hit the profiles option in the top right.  

[Coganaut]

9 hours ago, Darin Paul said:

I had a similar question in a previous thread regarding points after purchasing the generals handbook in the AoS app.  Once you've added a unit within the my battle in the app, hit the profiles option in the top right.  

Thats interesting. Kinda wish i purchased the book through the app now. Sadly i got a hard copy so it wont show me the points. I noticed some of the formations that I want to use, such as the Azyrite Hunt-team, says "Not yet avaliable". Does this possibly mean that these will get points down the road? If so why not release them with the Generals Handbook?

 

Alright back on topic. When we start to play larger point games should i invest some moeny into a Cellestat Prime, or one of the Star Drake fellows? I of course like the look of the prime more but which is a better purchase?

[rokapoke]

5 minutes ago, Coganaut said:

Alright back on topic. When we start to play larger point games should i invest some moeny into a Cellestat Prime, or one of the Star Drake fellows? I of course like the look of the prime more but which is a better purchase?

You answered your own question. The better purchase is the one you like the look of -- don't make it any more complicated than that. The Prime makes for a wonderful centerpiece and he mops up the battlefield very, very well.

[Nico]

The formations from the campaign books are very unlikely to receive points.

More generally - Stormcast live or die by their formations.

[Coganaut]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

More generally - Stormcast live or die by their formations.

Interesting statement. Which have you seen that works the best so far?

On paper the ones that involve them deepstriking in seem to be the best. Havent actually tested those though.

[Nico]

The deep striking ones are the ones to look at. Skyborne Slayers and Hammerstrike Force are the go-to formations. 

The former is a more rounded army with hard counters to chaff and to monsters plus shooting. The latter is a combo of Prosecutors and Retributors. The good thing about the latter is you can move the Prosecutors forward (or even teleport them), then drop off one unit of Retributors who smash face (and even get a one turn buff). Then in the next turn you can fly somewhere else to drop off the other unit of Retributors. All the while the Prosecutors can add support fire.  

[Forgebellows]

The strong units for SE is paladins, judicators, dracothian guard, celestant on foot, vexillor, heraldor, prime, and stardrake. Most of these are the key units that armies are built around, such as a gunline of judicators or a 10 man unit of retributors flung forward with a vexillor. Whatever you decide to use, you need a way to get your hard-hitters into combat, such as a deep-striking formation. Then, you build the rest of your points around it to support it. Right now you have a great starting group of units, but no umph...you need some umph.