Please help me purchase iron jaw army

[bigpaul0909]

Okay this is now my second time around purchasing some AOS, my first time i started with SCE and after purchasing the start set. i was basically told i wasted my money, and to purchase the battleforce, so i did.  Starting out i wanted to play a melee heavy army, quickly found out SCE are not good for this. So now im here, i sent back my battleforce box back, gave up on furthering my SCE army, can use it for practice 1000 pt games now. 

 

So after much frustration i am here asking for your help.  I was to play a melee heavy semi competitive army, what would YOU tell me to buy right out of the gate. unlike the SCE i read the ironjawz starter set is a great value, possibly worth purchasing twice? i would like to get the pros here opinions before i waste my money and time again, thanks guys!

[TALegion]

Ironjawz are the opposite of SCE in terms of unit selection, imo. SCE have a lot of units, but a small handful of them outshine the rest. Ironjawz have very few units, but they're all fairly even and useful. This gives you few options and you often use most/all of your units, just in different proportions.

That being said, your best first purchases would likely be 2 SC! boxes. Gore-gruntas, ardboyz, and warchanters are arguably the three best units in the whole army and many, many Ironjawz armies use 2 SC! boxes-worth of the models in them. 2 SC! boxes gives you 900 points of core units, so you can't go wrong.

After that, the choice comes down to what you want to play with. In terms of hero selection, many armies choose to run a weirdnob shaman for Hand of Gork (a teleport/deepstrike spell). Most lists only bring one megaboss, either on foot or on a maw krusha. A maw krusha seems expensive for a single model, but he is actually worth more 10 more points than an entire SC! box (or 90 more, if you take Gordrakk). The benefit of a footboss is basically that he's cheaper, so using them gives you more points to put towards battleline while still getting megaboss utility (command traits, his command ability, Waaagh!, etc.).

For battleline, again, it's up to whatever you want to run. A third SC! box is a fine options because more GGs, boyz, and WCs are all useable. It's either that, more ardboyz, or brutes. Pretty much never buy GGs by themselves, since the SC! box is like $10 more for 10 ardboyz and a WC.

And this doesn't even touch on Big Waaagh! lists, which can be made of anywhere between 0-100% Ironjawz units. You can comfortably use many Ironjawz lists as Big Waaagh! with few-to-no changes.

[bigpaul0909]

2 hours ago, TALegion said:

Ironjawz are the opposite of SCE in terms of unit selection, imo. SCE have a lot of units, but a small handful of them outshine the rest. Ironjawz have very few units, but they're all fairly even and useful. This gives you few options and you often use most/all of your units, just in different proportions.

That being said, your best first purchases would likely be 2 SC! boxes. Gore-gruntas, ardboyz, and warchanters are arguably the three best units in the whole army and many, many Ironjawz armies use 2 SC! boxes-worth of the models in them. 2 SC! boxes gives you 900 points of core units, so you can't go wrong.

After that, the choice comes down to what you want to play with. In terms of hero selection, many armies choose to run a weirdnob shaman for Hand of Gork (a teleport/deepstrike spell). Most lists only bring one megaboss, either on foot or on a maw krusha. A maw krusha seems expensive for a single model, but he is actually worth more 10 more points than an entire SC! box (or 90 more, if you take Gordrakk). The benefit of a footboss is basically that he's cheaper, so using them gives you more points to put towards battleline while still getting megaboss utility (command traits, his command ability, Waaagh!, etc.).

For battleline, again, it's up to whatever you want to run. A third SC! box is a fine options because more GGs, boyz, and WCs are all useable. It's either that, more ardboyz, or brutes. Pretty much never buy GGs by themselves, since the SC! box is like $10 more for 10 ardboyz and a WC.

And this doesn't even touch on Big Waaagh! lists, which can be made of anywhere between 0-100% Ironjawz units. You can comfortably use many Ironjawz lists as Big Waaagh! with few-to-no changes.

thanks this is exactly what im looking for!i dont know much about the orcs or what a army of big waaagh is, guessing its mixing old orc tribes with ironjaws? ive been told brutes arent worth getting? just stick to basically everything in the sc boxes, add a boss on for or mount and maybe the shaman.  Seems like a good beginner army which is what i am.

[FatherTurin]

10 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:

thanks this is exactly what im looking for!i dont know much about the orcs or what a army of big waaagh is, guessing its mixing old orc tribes with ironjaws? ive been told brutes arent worth getting? just stick to basically everything in the sc boxes, add a boss on for or mount and maybe the shaman.  Seems like a good beginner army which is what i am.

Disclaimer: I’m just getting into Orks myself, so this is from what I’ve read and watched, not personal experience.

The new battletome, “Orruk Warclans” has rules for Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz (tribal orks), or a Big Waagh! (which mixes the two).

Ironjawz are a good army to start with because you have an army with limited choices (helps to focus on a few units and learn their rules), relatively simple rules, an easy to grasp playstyle, and the book gives you plenty of options to branch out in the future.

The start collecting for Ironjawz is a fantastic deal, and getting two of them gets you 6 Gore Gruntas, 20 Ardboys, and 2 Warchanters.  Add a shaman and you have just about 1000 points to start learning the game and the army with.  You will eventually want a Maw-Krusha or 2, they are awesome models and the cornerstone of the more competitive builds Ironjawz can put together.

Brutes get a bad rap, but picking up some in the future may be worth it. The problem is that they are less flexible than Ardboys since they don’t have the special rules that Ardboys get from the drummer and standard bearer.  However, they put out more attacks and if your opponent has models with a lot of wounds, Brutes will take it down fast.  I play Ogors and Kharadron Overlords, and Brutes are one of the scarier things I can think about facing on the other side of the table.  Ultimately though, yes, most of your army will be Gore-Gruntas and Ardboys, so buying as many as 4 start collecting sets (eventually) is not a bad idea.

Also, get a shaman.  Magic is a BIG deal in AoS, and the Shaman would be worth it for the ability to unbind (counter) an enemy spell even if he had nothing else.  On top of that, he can pick a spell from the Ironjawz spell lore, generally the Hand of Gork, which gives you the ability to teleport a unit anywhere on the battlefield (more or less, I’m not trying to over-complicate stuff for a new player).

Welcome to AoS, and have fun!  Just bear in mind that, as a new player, you are absolutely going to lose a lot of games, especially if your opponent has played for a while.  Don’t get discouraged, talk over games afterwards to see what your opponent thought you could do better, and keep learning!

[FatherTurin]

With 2 Start Collecting boxes and a Shaman, you can put together this 1000 point army for starters:

Warchanter (General)

Weirdnob Shaman

15 Ardboys

3 Gore-Gruntas

3 Gore-Gruntas

Ironfist Battalion

Alternativey, if you don’t want to mess around with battalions this early, get a Megaboss on foot.

[bigpaul0909]

23 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

Disclaimer: I’m just getting into Orks myself, so this is from what I’ve read and watched, not personal experience.

The new battletome, “Orruk Warclans” has rules for Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz (tribal orks), or a Big Waagh! (which mixes the two).

Ironjawz are a good army to start with because you have an army with limited choices (helps to focus on a few units and learn their rules), relatively simple rules, an easy to grasp playstyle, and the book gives you plenty of options to branch out in the future.

The start collecting for Ironjawz is a fantastic deal, and getting two of them gets you 6 Gore Gruntas, 20 Ardboys, and 2 Warchanters.  Add a shaman and you have just about 1000 points to start learning the game and the army with.  You will eventually want a Maw-Krusha or 2, they are awesome models and the cornerstone of the more competitive builds Ironjawz can put together.

Brutes get a bad rap, but picking up some in the future may be worth it. The problem is that they are less flexible than Ardboys since they don’t have the special rules that Ardboys get from the drummer and standard bearer.  However, they put out more attacks and if your opponent has models with a lot of wounds, Brutes will take it down fast.  I play Ogors and Kharadron Overlords, and Brutes are one of the scarier things I can think about facing on the other side of the table.  Ultimately though, yes, most of your army will be Gore-Gruntas and Ardboys, so buying as many as 4 start collecting sets (eventually) is not a bad idea.

Also, get a shaman.  Magic is a BIG deal in AoS, and the Shaman would be worth it for the ability to unbind (counter) an enemy spell even if he had nothing else.  On top of that, he can pick a spell from the Ironjawz spell lore, generally the Hand of Gork, which gives you the ability to teleport a unit anywhere on the battlefield (more or less, I’m not trying to over-complicate stuff for a new player).

Welcome to AoS, and have fun!  Just bear in mind that, as a new player, you are absolutely going to lose a lot of games, especially if your opponent has played for a while.  Don’t get discouraged, talk over games afterwards to see what your opponent thought you could do better, and keep learning!

wow thank you so much for the info this is all great stuff, and yes i could care less about losing, i just want to find a army that "can" win playing it aggressively which is what i would like to do, so they seem like a great choice for me.

[bigpaul0909]

19 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

With 2 Start Collecting boxes and a Shaman, you can put together this 1000 point army for starters:

Warchanter (General)

Weirdnob Shaman

15 Ardboys

3 Gore-Gruntas

3 Gore-Gruntas

Ironfist Battalion

Alternativey, if you don’t want to mess around with battalions this early, get a Megaboss on foot.

im still learning rules but how do the battalions work?

[FatherTurin]

21 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:

im still learning rules but how do the battalions work?

Battalions are really just collections of units.  Think of them like buying extra abilities for your units.  Almost every battletome (army book) has a collection of them.  They list a bunch of units that you have to take in order to take the battalion.  

For example, the Ironjawz Battalion “Ironfist” requires you to take 3-5 Brutes, Ardboys, or Gore-Gruntas in any combination.

Once you have those units in your army, you can take the battalion.  Every battalion costs points, just like units.  Once you buy a battalion, you get a number of benefits:

1: The battalion gives you a benefit or extra rule.  This is specific to the Battalion in question and generally only affects the units in the battalion.

2: Every battalion lets you select one more artifact and gives you one command point.  You will find out more about these as you learn the game, but more of both is always good.

3: When you deploy your army at the start of the game, a battalion counts as one deployment, no matter how many units are in the battalion.  This is very important because the first person to finish deploying chooses who goes first.  You will see this all over the place as the number of “drops” your army has.  Ordinarily, the list I laid out is 5 “drops,” that is, you have five units to deploy.  You deploy one, your opponent deploys one, you deploy one, etc. until one person is done.  With the battalion, your army is only 3 “drops,” the battalion, and each character.  Generally, the lower the number of drops, the better, and the local meta will determine what the right number of drops is.  Obviously a “1 drop” army (all the units in a single battalion) is the best, but only a few armies can do this well.  Normally the battalions are missing a few key pieces that you really want.  With one notable exception (Tzeentch) the armies that can do a 1 drop don’t usually do it because they miss out on too much.

Personally, I prefer battalions for the extra artifact and command point.  The benefits from the battalion itself are nice, and of course going to lower drops is good, but unless it is dramatic, that is a fringe benefit.  For example, using a specific battalion in my Ogor army takes what would be a 6 drop army and makes it a 3 drop army.  That’s good.  But if you have 10 drops and the battalion only makes it 8 drops, that’s meh.  The other benefits are usually worth it, and with that many drops you really don’t have to worry about who chooses first turn...because it won’t be you 😜.

[Kasper]

10 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

With 2 Start Collecting boxes and a Shaman, you can put together this 1000 point army for starters:

Warchanter (General)

Weirdnob Shaman

15 Ardboys

3 Gore-Gruntas

3 Gore-Gruntas

Ironfist Battalion

Alternativey, if you don’t want to mess around with battalions this early, get a Megaboss on foot.

I will echo the value of Ironjawz Start Collecting boxes. I have personally bought 4, but 2 is a very good start.

Fyi our artefacts and traits are seperated in 2: Megaboss (both foot and Maw Krusha) and then Weirdnob. That means you cant give the Warchanter any from the Ironjawz book. The only option is to look for the Malign Sorcery artefacts for your Warchanter.

[svnvaldez]

The optimal meta list can change at anytime. Repointing every 6months, FAQ, new battletomes that shape the meta, etc.

2 general rules I find helpful are:

1) Buy models you like.

2) Have the goal of collecting 1 of each kit in the range and put it on your shelf painted.

 

But as others said... start by buying 2 start collecting boxes for IJ. 6 pigs with the warchanter buff and some ardboyz to fill out an ironfist will be solid stuff for a long time.

Pick up a Megaboss on foot next probably (or Mawcrusher... but understand he might die in a lot of games and if that makes you mad/sad since he costs $$$/points maybe wait a bit or leave out completely).

Edited January 25, 2020 by svnvaldez

[bigpaul0909]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:56 PM, FatherTurin said:

Battalions are really just collections of units.  Think of them like buying extra abilities for your units.  Almost every battletome (army book) has a collection of them.  They list a bunch of units that you have to take in order to take the battalion.  

For example, the Ironjawz Battalion “Ironfist” requires you to take

Once you have those units in your army, you can take the battalion.  Every battalion costs points, just like units.  Once you buy a battalion, you get a number of benefits:

1: The battalion gives you a benefit or extra rule.  This is specific to the Battalion in question and generally only affects the units in the battalion.

2: Every battalion lets you select one more artifact and gives you one command point.  You will find out more about these as you learn the game, but more of both is always good.

3: When you deploy your army at the start of the game, a battalion counts as one deployment, no matter how many units are in the battalion.  This is very important because the first person to finish deploying chooses who goes first.  You will see this all over the place as the number of “drops” your army has.  Ordinarily, the list I laid out is 5 “drops,” that is, you have five units to deploy.  You deploy one, your opponent deploys one, you deploy one, etc. until one person is done.  With the battalion, your army is only 3 “drops,” the battalion, and each character.  Generally, the lower the number of drops, the better, and the local meta will determine what the right number of drops is.  Obviously a “1 drop” army (all the units in a single battalion) is the best, but only a few armies can do this well.  Normally the battalions are missing a few key pieces that you really want.  With one notable exception (Tzeentch) the armies that can do a 1 drop don’t usually do it because they miss out on too much.

Personally, I prefer battalions for the extra artifact and command point.  The benefits from the battalion itself are nice, and of course going to lower drops is good, but unless it is dramatic, that is a fringe benefit.  For example, using a specific battalion in my Ogor army takes what would be a 6 drop army and makes it a 3 drop army.  That’s good.  But if you have 10 drops and the battalion only makes it 8 drops, that’s meh.  The other benefits are usually worth it, and with that many drops you really don’t have to worry about who chooses first turn...because it won’t be you 😜.

Again thank you so much for the info this helps me out a ton! Im going to have to read more about the drops but this is great info. 

[bigpaul0909]

thanks everyone for the info, im sending back my sce battleforce box today so that will be enough for 2  sc boxes of IJ, and then ill add a megaboss on foot for now to get me started.  Thanks everyone!

[OkayestDM]

 

On 1/24/2020 at 3:15 PM, bigpaul0909 said:

wow thank you so much for the info this is all great stuff, and yes i could care less about losing, i just want to find a army that "can" win playing it aggressively which is what i would like to do, so they seem like a great choice for me.

I've owned Ironjawz since before their update. I've never actually played them myself, but I used them to teach some friends how to play the game, so I'm still very familiar with them.

If you want to go aggressive, they're one of the best options to pick. The sheer number of attacks they get is stunning, and all of their abilities and synergies either help you close in on the enemy faster, or make you stronger when in combat with them.

If what you want most from the game is to have your little plastic guys punch their little plastic guys REALLY hard, these are the guys for you.

Their only real weakness is Mortal Wounds. They don't deal that many, and they have very little defense against them, but their high wounds help mitigate that. (One of the secret benefits of Brutes, at 3 wounds apiece they're surprisingly tanky. Definitely worth investing in at least 1 unit of them.)

 

[bigpaul0909]

2 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

 

I've owned Ironjawz since before their update. I've never actually played them myself, but I used them to teach some friends how to play the game, so I'm still very familiar with them.

If you want to go aggressive, they're one of the best options to pick. The sheer number of attacks they get is stunning, and all of their abilities and synergies either help you close in on the enemy faster, or make you stronger when in combat with them.

If what you want most from the game is to have your little plastic guys punch their little plastic guys REALLY hard, these are the guys for you.

Their only real weakness is Mortal Wounds. They don't deal that many, and they have very little defense against them, but their high wounds help mitigate that. (One of the secret benefits of Brutes, at 3 wounds apiece they're surprisingly tanky. Definitely worth investing in at least 1 unit of them.)

 

thanks for the info, this sounds exactly like the army i was looking for so im very happy i started doing research post buying the SCE ****** lol.(not that its ****** its just not how id like to play).

[OkayestDM]

1 minute ago, bigpaul0909 said:

thanks for the info, this sounds exactly like the army i was looking for so im very happy i started doing research post buying the SCE ****** lol.(not that its ****** its just not how id like to play).

SCE was the army I first collected. I like them, but they've never been what I hoped they would. Ironjawz ended up being that😛

Honestly, Ironjawz are much more new/starter player friendly than Stormcast are. You're gonna have a lot of fun!

[Malakree]

47 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

Honestly, Ironjawz are much more new/starter player friendly than Stormcast are. You're gonna have a lot of fun!

Definately agree, they are probably the best starting army in the game. They are simple, solid, uncomplicated warscrolls which get a lot of depth from the allegiance abilities.

Rob from the honest wargamer has described Ironjawz as the army which keeps everyone else honest. If you try to do much gamey stuff Ironjawz will just come in and mess you up.

Tzeentch at heat 1 was an amazing example. Everyone hated duplicitous host but the one time I faced it I rolled over it.

[bigpaul0909]

One last thing, i saw somwhere on here people are now shying away from BRUTES,  what recently changed that made people shy away form them? just straight point cost compaired to ardboys? they are still battleline on my app it says which is what i thought was the recent issue.

[svnvaldez]

5 hours ago, bigpaul0909 said:

just straight point cost compaired to ardboys?

This imo. Pigs and Boys are better for the model per point.

[bigpaul0909]

Welp after a few weeks i went all in, got a 5 brutes. warchanter/ and megaboss on mawcrusher form ebay. and x2SC boxes/shaman/tomb new, I think i went all in for my first real army and all thanks to you guys, thanks for all the help guys!