Skyborne Slayers - The Thread

[baiardo]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:38 PM, Juicy said:

For an example, the skaven battalion "Congregation of Filth" has a unit entry of  a "Plague priest on plague furnace". Here the sub-heading is "on plague furnace". And it can't be ignored

This is the same for skyborne slayers, it states Lord celestant. That is the full name. There is no sub-heading cause the full name is described. Heck it even came with a battlebox.  It states : Unless it included in the entry for the unit. On both casus the full name is described. 

I feel like we be rule bending to our advantage here. And going with a lord celestant on stardrake cause the unit entry is lord celestant and we want it to be any lord celestant is kind of lame. With battalions in our battletome these discussions are fixed but now we be talking about a very old battalion and we know the intention of that battalion. That intention didnt change with the new wording.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by baiardo

[Archibald]

What do you guys think of allying in a Krakeneater?

That would give us a punshy resilient anvil and/or hammer.

[Juicy]

i like it. my biggest worry is still objective play. Since there are a lot of senario''s where we have to protect 3 and try to get a fourth.  The kraken eater does only count as 1 model for allies outside of SOB. It means we still keep our biggest weakness trying to control the objective part.

[Juicy]

i playtested a unit of 10 protectors against the big new gargants. It doenst look good. i feel we do need 15 atleast to charge in with rerolls of 1 to try and take one down in 2 turns.

[Evantas]

15 hours ago, Juicy said:

i playtested a unit of 10 protectors against the big new gargants. It doenst look good. i feel we do need 15 atleast to charge in with rerolls of 1 to try and take one down in 2 turns.

Just to double check, how many starsoul maces did the protectors have? 4 or 0? 

Were the judicators able to make enough of an impact as well? 

[Juicy]

5 hours ago, Evantas said:

Just to double check, how many starsoul maces did the protectors have? 4 or 0? 

Were the judicators able to make enough of an impact as well? 

10 dudes with 6 glaves and 4 starsouls.  its super random. If the starsoul maces flop with rolling a 1 it does nothing. And the glaves need 6 to hit and then a wounding roll and a failed armoursave. And then its swingy with a d6. Its hard

5 judicators with bows doing around 2 damage vs a 4+ save and judicators with xbows 3 ex the special bow.

my 2x5 with xbows doing around 6 damage average against a unit with a 4+ save. without using the special xbow. So that helps.

 

[Archibald]

On 10/11/2020 at 12:07 PM, Juicy said:

i like it. my biggest worry is still objective play. Since there are a lot of senario''s where we have to protect 3 and try to get a fourth.  The kraken eater does only count as 1 model for allies outside of SOB. It means we still keep our biggest weakness trying to control the objective part.

Yes, but we would have a beatstick who can take and give a punch (At least better then paladins) and block some area.

[Juicy]

7 hours ago, Archibald said:

Yes, but we would have a beatstick who can take and give a punch (At least better then paladins) and block some area.

super true, cause paladin damage isnt great these days

[Evantas]

With the new Stormkeeps allegiance abilities, I think Skyborne Slayers is worth a relook? 

I would probably start now with the base 1430-pt building block as:

2x 10 liberators

2x 5 bow judicators

1×10 protectors

1x5 decimators 

1 lord-celestant

Stormkeep brotherhood seems decent as a 2nd battalion for just 60pts, and making it a 2-drop list. But what ~510pts of heroes would you bring? 

 

Currently looking at:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth (200)

- because I have to bring a Lord Celestant, dracoth seems more mobile for this purpose. 

Knight Heraldor (100) / Vexilor (110) for some mobility 

Knight Venator w/ Luckstone (110)

- to pick off/weaken a key unit 

Lord Exorcist (90) 

- some token casting 

 

With 4 heroes in the battalion, it gives an average of 2 extra CP every turn. Worth it? 

[Juicy]

4 hours ago, Evantas said:

With the new Stormkeeps allegiance abilities, I think Skyborne Slayers is worth a relook? 

I would probably start now with the base 1430-pt building block as:

2x 10 liberators

2x 5 bow judicators

1×10 protectors

1x5 decimators 

1 lord-celestant

Stormkeep brotherhood seems decent as a 2nd battalion for just 60pts, and making it a 2-drop list. But what ~510pts of heroes would you bring? 

 

Currently looking at:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth (200)

- because I have to bring a Lord Celestant, dracoth seems more mobile for this purpose. 

Knight Heraldor (100) / Vexilor (110) for some mobility 

Knight Venator w/ Luckstone (110)

- to pick off/weaken a key unit 

Lord Exorcist (90) 

- some token casting 

 

With 4 heroes in the battalion, it gives an average of 2 extra CP every turn. Worth it? 

I like that we have better liberators in the stormkeep. Reminder is they need to start on the board to be able to have that 3+ save and +1 to hit.
Your list is mobile but you lack punch. The only punch you have is 1x10 protectors. That is not enough.  Where protectors are awsome they dont win the game by themselves.

With this list you have a shitload of CP what is nice but mayb dont need it. I did tournaments and games where i had 2 from the battalion and + for 50 points so i started on 4. And always only needed like 2.  Reroll 1 to hit or reroll saves of 1. Lord celestant +1 to hit feels not needed 90% of the games i play. With the Sword of Judgement gone he is more of an extra tax.. ( i use him to be able to spend CP to keep close to my protectors )

Ways to improve this list are. Going ham on liberators. and put in a lord relictor with translocation prayer. You can teleport liberators in the hero fase and buff them with a lord castellant to have a blob of x amount of liberators on an objective or as a net/screen/kongoline with a 2 up reroll 1 save. Its pretty decent against enemy's that dont spam mortals and you are battleshock immume. 

xbow crossbows are only worth it if you can use scoins of the storm so with the stormkeep you want 2x5 bows so thats fine. 

Decimators: my favorite unit but they dont do much in any of the games ive played. I used to play them as a roadblock meat shield and do some damage with the starsoul maces. 1x5 is fine but you could go 1x10 if you like another pair of maces in the front. beware that the axes hardly do any damage because hordes is not the meta and most hordes these days got good enough saves that -1 rend 1 damage doesnt kill a lot. i mean i faces 1x10 into 15 ardboiz and couldnt even wipe the unit with average rolling.

most heroes we have a kind of bad on there own in current meta. So the lord celestant on dracoth is super cool but doenst have to punch to provide  as another hammer. You need something bigger. Pre 2020 the Prime would fit in perfect but with the new objective game you need some body's and leaders. 
my advice, drop the battalion and invest in some punch. Like dracoths for speed and punching. You dont need the lord celestant on dracoth and dont need to waste 140 points on extra CP that you hardly use. Keep the vexillor as you can drop them near the skyborne slayers to reroll those 5 inch charges. If you go dracoths go with a knight heraldor. Knight venator with luckstone is hardly worth it these days sadly.

With skyborne slayers its nice to decide the first turn but if you cant you can always keep stuff in the sky and go for the next double turn change. I had games where i got outdropped and stayed in the sky for 2 whole turns to drop in the third. 

Hope you got something

[boombyeyeah]

6 hours ago, Evantas said:

Stormkeep brotherhood seems decent as a 2nd battalion for just 60pts,

i think you are mistaken here, 60pts is the superbattallion, the one you talk of is 130pts?

 

also keep in mind, that you lose shock and awe, -1 to hit on the turn you shock in.

[rogue_michael]

6 hours ago, Evantas said:

With 4 heroes in the battalion, it gives an average of 2 extra CP every turn.

The Wardens of the Stormkeep extra CP is only on your first turn, I'm afraid.

[Marcvs]

2 hours ago, Juicy said:

With skyborne slayers its nice to decide the first turn but if you cant you can always keep stuff in the sky and go for the next double turn change. I had games where i got outdropped and stayed in the sky for 2 whole turns to drop in the third.

I am curious about this, since I am in the process of learning how to play with Skyborne Slayers (list-wise I have put everything in the battallion and go 1-drop). Since the problem with the list is that you lack "punch" isn't waiting a problem? I mean: if the enemy is already on the objectives and can also zone you out a little more, isn't it difficult for you to retake them quick enough? So far my success with the list has come from taking the initiative, charging the enemy in the deployment zone with the paladins (+ using judicators to clear a narrow path) while dropping on the objectives with all the rest to outscore the opponent in the first 3 turns.

Btw thanks for all the stuff you're sharing, I wouldn't have thought of this list otherwise

[Juicy]

3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I am curious about this, since I am in the process of learning how to play with Skyborne Slayers (list-wise I have put everything in the battallion and go 1-drop). Since the problem with the list is that you lack "punch" isn't waiting a problem? I mean: if the enemy is already on the objectives and can also zone you out a little more, isn't it difficult for you to retake them quick enough? So far my success with the list has come from taking the initiative, charging the enemy in the deployment zone with the paladins (+ using judicators to clear a narrow path) while dropping on the objectives with all the rest to outscore the opponent in the first 3 turns.

Btw thanks for all the stuff you're sharing, I wouldn't have thought of this list otherwise

No thanks Marcvs, i love the conversation we have in this thread. Would be nice if we can somehow get a podium on a 5 game tournament once;) to make us known. 

1 drop is nice but on a 5 games tournament you auto lose on 3 places of arcane power so thats 4-1 the best. The other one that is hard is the game where leader models score extra. Things get nasty pretty quick. Then we have total commitment where we cannot start the game in the sky. so that is 3 bad senario's already. Cause of these 3 reasons i skipped the prime and invested more into body's and it payed of my last tournament. 

in most games against players who dont screen i hit them turn 1 in the face take objectives and position well to survive a double turn. I feel this battallion punish people who leave gabs open. For example if any one leaves a mawcrusha at the frontline. 10 protectors kill it with ease. But playing tournaments people bring nasty stuff.. 1 hero wont do, you want atleast 3 so you become a 3 drop at minimum. its still enough to go first against mid tier army's but the top tier i face a lot are 1 drop tzeentch, 2 drop kharadron or 4 drop armies.. We can handle the 4 drop. and KO we can handle if he has to many boots and doenst screen. If any of these players played a skyborne slayer list before we in for some trouble;) What we can do is start with the liberators/bowjuds on the field and take objectives with them and wait to punch the rest of the battalion in when he leaves a gab. Most games i want to keep scoring in the beginning of the game to start pressure. So you're right about that. When you stay in the sky to long you lose this advantage. But you can also just put the protectors and lord celestant on foot in the sky and put the rest on the table at the beginning of the game. This way you got an alpha strike with a very small front and the opponent need to think about how to avoid getting an important unit destroyed by 10 protectors and the celestant. A trick here is play with a knight vexillor and teleport the 10 protectors back to another part of the board in the next movement fase. 

hope it helps.

[Evantas]

On 11/10/2020 at 5:06 PM, boombyeyeah said:

i think you are mistaken here, 60pts is the superbattallion, the one you talk of is 130pts?

 

also keep in mind, that you lose shock and awe, -1 to hit on the turn you shock in.

 

On 11/10/2020 at 5:25 PM, rogue_michael said:

The Wardens of the Stormkeep extra CP is only on your first turn, I'm afraid.

Dang. I got a better screenshot of the rule. Wardens of the Stormkeep is 140 points(!), and generates CP only on turn 1.

It's only slightly cost efficient if you wanted ~3 CP and 1 artefact for 140pts. 

Really meh. 

[Juicy]

Allegiance: Celestial Sentinals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
Lord-Castellant (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Vexillor (110)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer

Battleline
30 x Liberators (480)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (140)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Judicators (140)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows

Units
10 x Protectors (340)
- 4x Starsoul Maces
5 x Decimators (170)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Battalions
Skyborne Slayers (180)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156
 

Oke guys, small update. Ive played and tryed this list many times before but with the new Celestial Sentinal i feel Shield of Civilisation fits perfect. 
last game my lord relictor teleported 30 lantern buffed liberators like a net around the enemy. These liberators went down on a 2+ reroll 1 save. Was super anoying to chew trough. My protectors hit a flank and kept decimators+ 5  libs on home field objectives. It felt pretty okay. Any one els trying liberator bombs ? i want to know if people have succes with it.

 

another trick is making the lord celestant the general with staunch. and drop him with the liberators to have them dropping anywhere in the hero fase for a 1+ reroll 1 save. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Juicy

[Evantas]

3 hours ago, Juicy said:

Any one else trying liberator bombs ? I want to know if people have success with it.

I don't feel like 30 liberators add much value.

Even with 20, I've found that it's very hard to get value out of the Sequitors, even with all the grand hammers in front. I think dropping 15 liberators seems ideal, and you save the points for 5 more protectors who can actually fight in a huge stack?

[Juicy]

1 hour ago, Evantas said:

I don't feel like 30 liberators add much value.

Even with 20, I've found that it's very hard to get value out of the Sequitors, even with all the grand hammers in front. I think dropping 15 liberators seems ideal, and you save the points for 5 more protectors who can actually fight in a huge stack?

i did play with 15 protectors, they did good but the problem was to many points in 1 unit that is super immobile and hard to place at a flank/or in the back. I hardly place the protectors in the front cause they get wiped pretty easy. With a lot of senario's we have 5 objectives. For me atleast 10 did just as good as 15. And got just as much focus.

With Shield of civilisation liberators can drop to an 3+ save and hittig on 3's. there damage is way better now. I feel like if i want to play Celestial sentinals with skyborne slayers i need to look at the strengths of both the battalion and the allegiance ability. As i look at it now it seems both benefic a lot from liberators.  battleshock immume is pretty huge.

2x 15 liberators might be better. I try some games with both. I have the luck of playing 2 times a week right now so can testplay a lot.
why i like 30 liberators is i can buff staunch, shield of civilisation and lantern on them. for a 1 up reroll 1 save with battleshock immume. Thats 1 though unit to crack and if you dont focus these 2 heroes its insane

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Juicy

[Marcvs]

I played a TTS tournament this Saturday (Hammertime V, 3 games, around 36 players). I finished 12th with 2-1 playing with this list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
30 x Liberators (480)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (140)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (140)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Decimators (170)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
20 x Protectors (680)
- 8x Starsoul Maces
Skyborne Slayers (180)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170
 

Game 1 was Scorched Earth against Tzeentch with Archaon in the Chicken Summoning allegiance. The player was playing his first tournament with a less "optimised" list (no changehost). I placed the 30 liberators on the table, too far for a t1 charge from Archaon, + the 5 liberators on a side objective (where I would have started to remove losses from the big unit). 2 units of judicators in the sky, the rest in the special sky. He was too cautious with archaon, I could steal one objective with the judicators and when archaon advanced I stole another with the protectors. By now I was too ahead with points and we called it.

Game 2 was Knife to the heart against Sons of Behemat, takers tribe, 3 megas 3 smalls. It was my first game vs giants so I didn't know exactly what to expect. What I found very hard to play against: the possibility to retreat over my troops, which meant that I had to fill a lot of gaps on the table, and the fact that all the units could (potentially) kill a specific model, which made lines a no-go. Ultimately, I could not kill the giants fast enough (protectors where not very lucky) and he just needed to put a foot on my objective (since he counted for 30) to win.

Game 3 was Blade's edge against Slaanesh, heroes and chariots. I kettled him completely with the 30 liberators, charging the chariots to avoid impact hits. He killed all the libs by t2 but the protectors where still holding the second line and I scored 18 pts over the first 3 turns, with my opponent scoring only 2. When he failed a charge with the summoned demonettes he couldn't mathematically come back and we called it.

EDIT: fun fact, the list was briefly mentioned on the HWG towards the end of Monday's show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grewTj6XW4s&t=1h11m58s

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Marcvs

[Marcvs]

Another update with the same list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
30 x Liberators (480)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (140)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (140)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Decimators (170)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
20 x Protectors (680)
- 8x Starsoul Maces
Skyborne Slayers (180)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170

I am currently playing a TTS league here in France. First phase is pools of 4 players, 3 games, top two go to the final phase (standard round swiss two dayer). So far I have won all my three games in the pool, we'll see in the finals but I am not very optimistic (I have been lucky with Battleplans and opponents so far, I'd say). Anyway the path so far:

Game 1 was against Ossiarch, a crazy list in Crematorians with 120 mortek guards in Total Conquest. I used the liberators to kettle them by engaging all units but trying to minimize both the amount of damage done and the number of models the opponent could get in combat. It took 2 turns for the mortek guards to evade the trap, but then they met the lines of protectors and other MSU. The bonus point for retaking objectives made this quite close and I won by 2 points. Minor victory (because of the tournament rules). Picture of the beginning of the battle:

Game 2 was Blade's Edge against Lumineth, with teclis, 30 and 20 wardens, 10 and 10 sentinels, dawnriders and the vanari legion. Again used the liberators to kettle (no charging to not give the wardens extra attacks) and charged the protectors in the big unit of wardens, deleting them completely, mainly thanks to 19 MW from the maces 😮 from there the MW output thinned down my ranks but having lost most of the wardens meant my opponent could only deal damage in his own turn, so it wasn't enough. Major victory by some margin, as the battleplan gives a big advantage to early game scoring. Picture at the end of the game:

Game 3 was Forcing the Hand against Slaanesh, but with a purely mortals build (Karkadrak, Sorcerer on Manticotre, lots of knights in vengeful throng, I think that's the name of the battalion). My objective was to try and avoid the charges from the knights, since without them my opponent would not have the output to come out of the trap. I managed to delete a screen of marauder horsemen and tie up a unit of knights using the pile in. I was less lucky on the other side, so liberators died in t2. Still, I had scored 8 points to 1 in t1 and 5-2 in the second, so from there I just defended three objectives with the protectors and the remaining MSU and got a Major Win. Picture of the first turn:

[Juicy]

Nice! good stuff i like it! How did you feel about the 20 protectors? Is 1 hammer unit enough?
 

Did u play the 30 liberators with the stormkeep?
How did u feel about only taking 1 hero?

Cheers mate! good to see some skyborne slayer love. 
Im trying a lot of stormkeep patrol games but so far lost al 6 games hard. Like scoring early but get overrun around turn 3 and losing hard then. 

[Marcvs]

36 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Nice! good stuff i like it! How did you feel about the 20 protectors? Is 1 hammer unit enough?
 

Did u play the 30 liberators with the stormkeep?
How did u feel about only taking 1 hero?

Cheers mate! good to see some skyborne slayer love. 
Im trying a lot of stormkeep patrol games but so far lost al 6 games hard. Like scoring early but get overrun around turn 3 and losing hard then. 

Hey dank je wel!

So, broken realms rules were not out yet when this league started so no stormkeep.

Only taking one hero was absolutely fine... because I didn't get to play in Places of Arcane Power But I did play in Total Conquest which gives bonus points to leaders and I still managed to outscore my opponent by a sufficient margin to counter this. The bonus points from the Celestant were useful, so probably it would have gone differently if the opponent could have sniped him. For the rest, I tend to consider that I will lose him after t1 so I just burn all CPs as soon as I have them.

I loved the 20 protectors. Apart from the maces they are really underwhelming in terms of damage but having 20 of them is another big block of wounds which can be strung across two objectives and let me choose where to put the losses. I try to give them rr1 to save as much as possible when they are targeted, if the Celestant is still around. Another great use is to tag shooting units and force them to shoot at -1. When I get to test the Stormkeep rules, they would probably be the first wave of attack, to soak up the early damage and get my liberators to t2 where I can activate the shield of civilisation.

As I said, I feel I have been lucky so far in terms of opponents (no teleportation, very few flying units, no absolute killer melee units) and battleplans (no Places of Arcane Power, no ****** Total Commitment)

As for the patrol battalion, I am really cooling down about the whole idea, mainly because it has less flexibility than the Skyborne build in terms of positioning and (above everything else) battleshock is just too painful with 2 wounds models. The lord veritant and other support heroes are too easy to snipe to stick around for the immunity, and even then, you might have other uses for those CPs. So, for the moment I don't see how I could make an effective list with the patrol and I'd rather run the Slayers in a Stormkeep with the following:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: God-forged Blade
30 x Liberators (480)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
30 x Liberators (480)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (140)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
10 x Judicators (280)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Decimators (170)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
5 x Protectors (170)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
Skyborne Slayers (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 185
 

Hammers of sigmar  might be worth it for the chance of resurrecting (and redeploying) a pack of 30 liberators (2 of them give you 66% chance), otherwise Hallowed Knights for the 6+ against spells.

A possible variation is to reduce the xbow judicators back to 5 and take another hero (a vexillor for the redeployment, a veritant for prayer + bonus dog, or a cities of sigmar hero to get the command trait for the pre-move for units not placed in deepstrike, since we would lose the normal deepstrike), or some mobile objective grabber like the new DoK warband. This however is also an extra drop and this army just needs to have the choice of priority in the stormkeep, as you cannot split units between the special and the normal deepstrike

Edited November 27, 2020 by Marcvs

[jhamslam]

 I feel like protectors really do need a warscroll change. Either make em do d3 MWs in additiion to damage on 6s. Because having to pass a 6 up hit roll, 3 up wound roll, then a save roll then a swingy damage roll just feels bad.

Need to get some more paladins. Only have like 10 Retributors and 5 decimators for now lol

 

[Marcvs]

58 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

 I feel like protectors really do need a warscroll change. Either make em do d3 MWs in additiion to damage on 6s. Because having to pass a 6 up hit roll, 3 up wound roll, then a save roll then a swingy damage roll just feels bad.

Need to get some more paladins. Only have like 10 Retributors and 5 decimators for now lol

 

I decided that after the decent results I wanted to have this option so I am now building and painting towards 20 protectors ^^"

and yes, that rule on 6s to hit is really really bad

[Juicy]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

I decided that after the decent results I wanted to have this option so I am now building and painting towards 20 protectors ^^"

and yes, that rule on 6s to hit is really really bad

nice style!

The rule on 6 is indeed terrible. I always explain them to my opponent as monster slayer units. But i never tell the part that they hardly killing any monster out there with the glaves. This design is terrible for monster slaying. To many checks to pass.

Same with decimators.. Yeah they get loads of attacks but most of the time they fail to kill even a lot of horde dudes and get destroyed after. I wish they got damage 2 so they can finely hit like the blender they should be. These guys even in units of 10 hardly get anything done.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Juicy