Soulsnare shackles and bonuses to movement

[gronnelg]

How does Soulsnare shackles interact with bonuses to movement?
If I have 4 base move, and get +2 to move, is my totalt move halved so 3  move totalt in this case, or is only the base move halved, so 4 move total in this case?

[Isotop]

First of all, you always apply multiplication/division before addition:

 

"Q: If two abilities affect a value, and one adds a modifier to the value and the other either multiplies or divides the value, do you apply the modifiers before or after multiplying or dividing the value? A: Apply the modifiers after multiplying or dividing the value."

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en.pdf, page 6)

 

1 hour ago, King Taloren said:

Soulsnare shackle halve only the movement characteristics not the total movement so your bonuses are not affected by the shackles.

I think a lot (if not the most) movement boni add to the movement characteristic anyways. This whole "characteristic" vs "total value" does not really make a lot of sense, as far as I can see:

 

"Q: Some abilities and spells require you to take a test against another unit’s Bravery characteristic. When this is the case, do you use the Bravery characteristic after any modifiers have been applied, instead of the unmodified characteristic on the unit’s warscroll? A: Yes."

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en.pdf, page 2)

 

I realize they talk about Bravery in particular here, but this is kind of a precedence for other characteristics as well, is it not?

Edited June 4, 2019 by Isotop

[King Taloren]

Soulsnare shackle halve only the movement characteristics not the total movement so your bonuses are not affected by the shackles.

[King Taloren]

17 minutes ago, Isotop said:

First of all, you always apply multiplication/division before addition:

 

"Q: If two abilities affect a value, and one adds a modifier to the value and the other either multiplies or divides the value, do you apply the modifiers before or after multiplying or dividing the value? A: Apply the modifiers after multiplying or dividing the value."

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en.pdf, page 6)

 

I think a lot (if not the most) movement boni add to the movement characteristic anyways. This whole "characteristic" vs "total value" does not really make a lot of sense, as far as I can see:

 

"Q: Some abilities and spells require you to take a test against another unit’s Bravery characteristic. When this is the case, do you use the Bravery characteristic after any modifiers have been applied, instead of the unmodified characteristic on the unit’s warscroll? A: Yes."

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en.pdf, page 2)

 

I realize they talk about Bravery in particular here, but this is kind of a precedence for other characteristics as well, is it not?

First off the Soulsnare Shackles state explicitly that they halve the MOVE CHARACTERISTIC it does not say movement

[Isotop]

3 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

First off the Soulsnare Shackles state explicitly that they halve the MOVE CHARACTERISTIC it does not say movement

Yeah I think everyone here is aware of that. I am not sure what you want to tell me here, but feel free to explain...

[King Taloren]

Returning it over we now have the new president of how effects are applied. 

If soulsnare shackles activates at the start of the hero phase any bonus movement that is added afterward will not be affected because the shackles is applied before the bonus is. 

[EMMachine]

Even if we have multiple modifiers on the Move Characteristic, the Soulsnare  shackles would come first because of point before line. There is also a question in the Rules FAQ Page 6.

Quote

Q: If two abilities affect a value, and one adds a modifier to the
value and the other either multiplies or divides the value, do
you apply the modifiers before or after multiplying or dividing
the value?
A: Apply the modifiers after multiplying or dividing
the value.

Edit: Okay, I had overlooked that @Isotop posted this part of the FAQ already.

Edited June 4, 2019 by EMMachine

[Isotop]

24 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

Returning it over we now have the new president of how effects are applied. 

I am not sure why you are so aggressive but I would like you to respond to every part of my arguments if you want to discuss with me. Often times you simply cherry-pick what suits your reaction best. If you do not want to argue on a certain (deeper) level, the discussion does not make a lot of sense to me.

24 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

If soulsnare shackles activates at the start of the hero phase any bonus movement that is added afterward will not be affected because the shackles is applied before the bonus is. 

It is added "afterwards" because the division is applied first (see the FAQ I posted). There is not "timing" in the application of modifiers. You simply check what modifiers affect the model in the moment you move it. It does not matter in which order they were applied. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Isotop