Are Grave Guard competative in AoS2?

[DessTelain]

So I got some plans in the works to convert my old tomb king army into a Legion of Sacrament one. And I wonder if I should bother rebasing my tomb guard into counts as grave guard, or if they are outperformed point for point by grimghast reapers.

[Skreech Verminking]

I don’t really know if Heimfahrt reapers are better than grave guard,

nor am I really a death player 

but i can assure you that grave guard are still very efficient in killing horde units and greater monster/hero’s.

they are also a good looking unit (especially if you take tomb guards instead (its a shame Gw stopped producing them))

and can be a great unit which will tell good story in your army.

this is my perspective of a narrative, or friendly (depends I guess) game.

as from a competitive view, I’ve seen that many deathplayers like to use Skeleton’s and Nagash’s special elite unit more at tournaments.

 

 

[Honk]

In small units I wouldn’t bother, wolves are the best speed bumps ever.

But a big unit of 30 with a necromancer close by or even a coven throne... they do dish out buckets of pain. And if they get deleted somehow, resummon  XD

[BarrowLord]

From a strictly competitive sense Grimghast Reapers are, point for point, better than stock Graveguard.  They lose out on double damage on to wound rolls of sixes, but gain double movement, a better save, they ignore rend, can still fight in two ranks, and are just as easy to resummon.  All the while being twenty points cheaper for a unit of ten.

That said, before Nighthaunt the go to killy unit was often Graveguard.  They are still a great unit.  In a Deathrattle themed force you can buff them up to pretty crazy levels.  A large unit will kill whatever it touches.  Heck, I've had units of ten hack large monsters to death in a single turn.

[Ravinsild]

40 minutes ago, BarrowLord said:

From a strictly competitive sense Grimghast Reapers are, point for point, better than stock Graveguard.  They lose out on double damage on to wound rolls of sixes, but gain double movement, a better save, they ignore rend, can still fight in two ranks, and are just as easy to resummon.  All the while being twenty points cheaper for a unit of ten.

That said, before Nighthaunt the go to killy unit was often Graveguard.  They are still a great unit.  In a Deathrattle themed force you can buff them up to pretty crazy levels.  A large unit will kill whatever it touches.  Heck, I've had units of ten hack large monsters to death in a single turn.

So... they’re 2nd place best Killy unit?

[BarrowLord]

1 minute ago, Ravinsild said:

So... they’re 2nd place best Killy unit?

I'd say that is a fair statement to make.  A unit of thirty in an optimal situation can toss out 151 3+/3+/Rend-1 attacks that do double damage on sixes (say a line of 15 two deep to take advantage of two rank fighting).  The biggest downside to that is their speed and relative fragility.  They play on the field like a unit designed to work in close knit formations.

Reapers on the other hand are fast, more resilient, and operate better unsupported (or with minimal support).  That makes them great for objective based scenarios or lists that try to overload their opponent with multiple high value threats. 

[themortalgod]

My feelings on the subject:

- They have seen play at the tournament level on top-tier tables. Thus, yes, they are competitive. 

- As Honk said, only in max size units, anything less and they are inefficient. I also think their points per model is a bit high when they aren't getting the max unit discount. They are not an effective MSU unit. 

- I'd say that they only really work in Grand Host where they have access to some powerful force multiplying buffs. 

- Ravinsild is right, point for point Reapers are better. In Grand Host, though Graveguard will outpace in certain situations where they are able to enjoy buffs that the Reapers cannot. Graveguard are also on smaller bases so even though model for model Reapers are more efficient, Graveguard pack more densely which can be a superior option in some situations as it allows them to be less vulnerable while packing more attacks into a smaller space. Their poorer mobility compared to Reapers, though, is a notch against them. 

- The models also are more sturdy and pack more densely for travel. Which actually is relevant if you plan to play competitively. If your goal is to win every tournament then yeah, you need to optimize to utter perfection but if your goal is to just attend events, have fun while doing reasonably well a competitive army that packs and travels well actually is probably better than a fragile one that is a nightmare to travel with. It may perform a bit better but it skyrockets stress. 

[Ravinsild]

58 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

My feelings on the subject:

- They have seen play at the tournament level on top-tier tables. Thus, yes, they are competitive. 

- As Honk said, only in max size units, anything less and they are inefficient. I also think their points per model is a bit high when they aren't getting the max unit discount. They are not an effective MSU unit. 

- I'd say that they only really work in Grand Host where they have access to some powerful force multiplying buffs. 

- Ravinsild is right, point for point Reapers are better. In Grand Host, though Graveguard will outpace in certain situations where they are able to enjoy buffs that the Reapers cannot. Graveguard are also on smaller bases so even though model for model Reapers are more efficient, Graveguard pack more densely which can be a superior option in some situations as it allows them to be less vulnerable while packing more attacks into a smaller space. Their poorer mobility compared to Reapers, though, is a notch against them. 

- The models also are more sturdy and pack more densely for travel. Which actually is relevant if you plan to play competitively. If your goal is to win every tournament then yeah, you need to optimize to utter perfection but if your goal is to just attend events, have fun while doing reasonably well a competitive army that packs and travels well actually is probably better than a fragile one that is a nightmare to travel with. It may perform a bit better but it skyrockets stress. 

Honestly I’ve been tinkering with lists that can bring my Grave Guard up to 13” movement without running. It’s just a gimmick I think but Ianob won an event with a similar list but his is way better. 

 

[Honk]

On 10/5/2018 at 5:43 AM, Ravinsild said:

I think but Ianob won an event with a similar list but his is way better

Well, doing the deathmarch, you might as well do it right, so why waste points on reapers, when your forced to bring guards.

and never forget it’s ianob... high competitive gaming, kick a** and chew bubble gum, and he‘s all out of gum  XD