Taketheskull Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Having had a look at Stormcast points, something that stuck out for me was the 200pt tag on the Knight-Vexillor. Now the K-V looks pretty dam decent, but when you compare the cost other Stormcast heroes he seems quite pricey for a average combat profile, a nice charging buff and a excellent once per game ability. My experience with using/opposing Stormcast is limited to the starter contents, so maybe I'm missing how good his buffs are. I'd be interested in your thoughts on why this cost is fair, or is GW just trying to make Stormcast heroes with puny warblades more attractive by overcosting warhammer armed heroes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Imagine taking a unit of, say, 10 Retributors. Now imagine dropping them 3.1" out from the most dangerous unit on the enemy's back lines. Now imagine you're that enemy. 200 points sounds about right, eh? In all seriousness, it's definitely the teleportation rather than the other ability that drives up his point value. And he's a bad mamma-jamma because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Yep, he's expensive because he can teleport a unit (usually a big unit of retributors with mystic shield/warding lantern, maybe damned or mystical buffed) right into the most vulnerable part of an enemy, with the bonus that nearby enemies then also potentially take damage. Same trick with big units of protectors/decimators or a suitably buffed stardrake is no less horrific. Its a shame though because the other version of his banner (once per game comet) is not worth anything near 200 points. So if you are paying those points it'd be a waste not to use the teleportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taketheskull Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 Thanks Gents ? In summary, guy with hammer makes other guys, with even bigger hammers, better! I'll call that another win for pro-hammer Stormcast camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Taketheskull said: Thanks Gents ? In summary, guy with hammer makes other guys, with even bigger hammers, better! I'll call that another win for pro-hammer Stormcast camp. Lol, he's not fussy, hammer guy doesn't discriminate against axes or spears either. He's not that big a fan of swords though. Hammertime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Quote Imagine taking a unit of, say, 10 Retributors. Now imagine dropping them 3.1" out from the most dangerous unit on the enemy's back lines. Now imagine you're that enemy. Don't you mean 20 Retributors? Someone dropped the ball on the wound caps. With +2 to saves. Where's that Be'Lakor model of mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I think eventually most will make the move towards a Knight Heraldor once everyone learns the Vexillor combo. At least in smaller points games. If you don't pull off something special with the teleport you waste a good few points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Turragor said: I think eventually most will make the move towards a Knight Heraldor once everyone learns the Vexillor combo. At least in smaller points games. If you don't pull off something special with the teleport you waste a good few points. Like reliably deleting the opponents best unit? It's pretty consistent at doing exactly this, having played with and against it quite extensively. As long as you're sensible at keeping the Vexillor out of threat range anyways. 200 seems a lot but it is still cheaper than he was in the last version of SCGT comp (which had him at an equivalent of 240) and he was still finding his way into all Stormcast lists. It's also easy to forget his charge buff, which is also super sweet. So once he's used that banner, be sure to run him up with your frontline units to get the most out of it (admittedly, I forget this a lot myself!!). In short; 200 points well spent. @Nico - I had not noticed that! Thankfully its so expensive to do that I'm not sure we'll see it much at 2k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlzee Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Don't forget the Hammerstrike Formation. 100 points and you can use your Prosecutors to bring down two units of Retributors. You don't get the Mortal wound damage on arrival, but it's a cheaper option at moving your Paladins upfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 40 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: Like reliably deleting the opponents best unit? It's pretty consistent at doing exactly this, having played with and against it quite extensively. Do you think that we'll continue to be able to do so reliably though? I mean it's the most obvious trick in the Stormcast playbook and there are a lot of interesting ways to try to counter it very early from a lot of factions. Do you think he'll always be a way to delete the opponents best unit (I just don't see that being the case)? /Edit - or maybe you think he won't be - sure a clever opponent will be cautious of that combo - but the threat distracts the enemy and that gives you a benefit. So he's worth 200 in any case. Also would you take him below 2000 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 @Turragor I think all players, clever or otherwise, will (and should) be cautious of the combo. It's probably the most obvious, simplest, yet potentially destructive things in AoS. It can be counted and indeed some armies are able to reach out and get rid of the Vexillor, wherever he is, before you've had a turn. The problem is the Retributors without the banner (or Battalion movement tricks) are just too slow, though obviously still pose a threat, this definitely leads people to run the Vexillor. I hope in time lists will evolve and we'll see other things. In general though, regardless of counters and the such, it's still a super strong combo and makes your opponent play in a reactionary fashion (which is arguably worth the 200 points!). Pretty much what you said to be fair!! Under 2,000 points, it would be difficult to include him I agree. Actually, to be honest, now that I think about it I have not yet written a General's Handbook list for my Stormcast!! I think after a quick look I worked out my list wouldn't really change too much though (unlike my Chaos .... but that's another story ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metzombie Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Yeah the 200 points for the teleportaion are ok. The one problem I see is that ther is no extra pricetag for meteor banner and 200 is a bit to much for that one I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 19 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: @Turragor I think all players, clever or otherwise, will (and should) be cautious of the combo. It's probably the most obvious, simplest, yet potentially destructive things in AoS. It can be counted and indeed some armies are able to reach out and get rid of the Vexillor, wherever he is, before you've had a turn. The problem is the Retributors without the banner (or Battalion movement tricks) are just too slow, though obviously still pose a threat, this definitely leads people to run the Vexillor. I hope in time lists will evolve and we'll see other things. In general though, regardless of counters and the such, it's still a super strong combo and makes your opponent play in a reactionary fashion (which is arguably worth the 200 points!). Pretty much what you said to be fair!! Under 2,000 points, it would be difficult to include him I agree. Actually, to be honest, now that I think about it I have not yet written a General's Handbook list for my Stormcast!! I think after a quick look I worked out my list wouldn't really change too much though (unlike my Chaos .... but that's another story ). Take what I say with a pinch of salt. I'm a fluffy player who plays a pal about once a month and has his first tournament in October I have a theory that the heraldor is a great alternative albeit with much less mobility offered. I mean 4 + 3d6 inches isn't exactly racing toward the enemy. Maybe as @Bowlzee said formations are a great alternative. I wonder if it's overkill to take a formation, heraldor and a vexillor? Definitely at 1000. Probably at 2000 too! Of course, currently Stormcast can look to any other order factions buffs to suit their needs. Until the stormcast allegiance bonuses rear their heads. That said, mobility isn't on offer really from order buffs really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skevin Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Why everyone want TP Retributors with Vexillor and not dracothian guards ? It's good to no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 27 minutes ago, Skevin said: Why everyone want TP Retributors with Vexillor and not dracothian guards ? It's good to no ? Dracothian guard don't have the same super slow speed as retributors so will reach a target anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 @Skevin yeh, it's pretty much as simple as @Turragor says, all down to speed really. That said, I have used the Vexillor banner on a unit of 4 Concussors on a couple of occasions (usually if there is an objective to be held in your own territory that the Retributors can comfortably camp for you) and it can be pretty effective/intimidating. Whilst it didn't play out in my examples, you could conceivably make good use of their rule that stops piling in by teleporting onto a flank etc. Definitely worth consideration in some battleplans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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