Model-Base Duality

[Isotop]

Is its base considered to be a part of a model? The specific scenario I have in mind is the following: I want to attack a model in the shooting phase (or generally have to draw line of sight to it) but I can only see the base of the model, not the "actual model" itself. I know it would take some weird piece of terrain or a weirdly on its base placed model to make such a scenario happen - but what would follow if it did? Could I shot/draw line of sight to the target or not? I know that measurements are taken from the base, but I guess line of sight is no measurement, is it? As far as I read the rules they don´t really tell us if a "model" is just the entity mounted on the base or the sum of both of it.

 

[BaldoBeardo]

16 minutes ago, Isotop said:

Is its base considered to be a part of a model? The specific scenario I have in mind is the following: I want to attack a model in the shooting phase (or generally have to draw line of sight to it) but I can only see the base of the model, not the "actual model" itself. I know it would take some weird piece of terrain or a weirdly on its base placed model to make such a scenario happen - but what would follow if it did? Could I shot/draw line of sight to the target or not? I know that measurements are taken from the base, but I guess line of sight is no measurement, is it? As far as I read the rules they don´t really tell us if a "model" is just the entity mounted on the base or the sum of both of it.

 

The fact they have separate names might be a clue...

But seriously, definitely a discuss-with-opponent or TO.

Because then you're into the realm of "I can see the tip of that spear" or "I can see the edge of that billowing cloak".

[Overread]

This is one of those things that the short rules we have no leave us abit confused on as GW doesn't go into any specific detail. I would say that the model is not the base because the rules do somewhat define them both as separate thing. 

That said true line of sight where you can shoot even if you can see just a spear tip is one of those areas where "true line of sight" starts to become a bit silly and where variations in interpretation can get quite complicated. Many people often treat it as the core body - head arm to the elbow, legs and torso. Whilst weapons, banners, spears etc.. often don't get counted. 

[Kramer]

Funnily enough we do the exact opposite to what @BaldoBeardo & @Overread said. We count the base as the thing you need to see. Or a cone upwards to head height in some rare cases. It prevents players having tot turn models into or out of cover and deciding if you can see enough. With that we close to never have issues on line of sight. 

[Overread]

@Kramer see I wish GW would adopt something like that. Far more fair to most models and means that the conversion or model design doesn't come into play. I agree as it stands there are clear ways to abuse the model rule - eg having a model that is posed quite far forward being turned so that it doesn't overhang  the edge of terrain and get shot at. Little things like that which some players iwll pick up on and use as tactics when the rules clearly are not designed to operate with that level of finesse. 

 

 

It's not cheating nor even being "that guy" its following the game rules as they allow you to play at a high level - even if its rather daft. 

 

A bit like in MK2 of Warmachine/Hordes when experienced players knew to declare charge targets  no matter if you were in range or not so that you could move further than if you told a unit or monster to run. 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

It's not cheating nor even being "that guy" its following the game rules as they allow you to play at a high level - even if its rather daft. 

 

For us it's not even that. It's a dumb thing to have to think about, kills emersion and restricts modelling like you said. But I understand how it would impact tournament setitngs. 

[JackStreicher]

I have to admit that concerning vision I like the rules they use for some Spells: Base middle has to be able to see the enemies middle of the base (and or a model part atop that middle)