Chaos army also usable in 40k?

[Big Rob]

Hi all, 

Is it possible to build a mono god daemon army for AoS (fan of Tzeentch or Khorne) that also would work in 40k? Not expecting top tier but having both lists at least "ok" on a competitive level would be the goal, prioritizing AoS (though 40k is just more popular in my area, hence army playable in both systems). Mono god because AoS allegiances + fluffy.

After the 2.0 points increases, I'm thinking Tzeentch daemons would be weaker than Khorne. I like the cavalry idea (bloodcrushers) the most, though I'm unsure which battalion to use-Stampede for better bloodcrushers vs Murderhost for better army movement. Probably a mandatory 30x bloodletter unit since they're effective in both systems and let you do bloodletter bombs in 40k with cp.

Does anyone have any ideas or even army lists for building a decent Khorne or Tzeentch AoS army that could also be used in 40k? (Obviously it's unlikely the armies will perfectly sync up in points across both game systems, but as long as the bulk of the army is useable in both. ..)

Thanks! 

[kenshin620]

Well AOS Khorne is pretty good with Bloodletters, though their cavalry is a little sucky.

Daemon Tzeentch is a little more tricky since Horrors are expensive point wise due to their splitting rule, in which you'll also need blue horrors and brimstone horrors. It doesn't help many Tzeentch lists rely on Tzaangor battleline.

 

I am in no way a daemon expert, I mostly parrot the general trend of the topics!

[Big Rob]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Well AOS Khorne is pretty good with Bloodletters, though their cavalry is a little sucky.

Daemon Tzeentch is a little more tricky since Horrors are expensive point wise due to their splitting rule, in which you'll also need blue horrors and brimstone horrors. It doesn't help many Tzeentch lists rely on Tzaangor battleline.

 

I am in no way a daemon expert, I mostly parrot the general trend of the topics!

From what I'm seeing, the crushers are great in 40k and overshadowed in AoS with their mortal versions. I guess I want to know if they are still playable in AoS, especially with a battalion to buff them and enough daemon heroes for babysitting loci. 

Good call with Tzeentch, in AoS the horrors are costly. Technically I could run a tzaangor/cultists list for 40k thousand sons that would be disciples of Tzeentch for AoS (minus the thousand sons hq choices, which all except daemon princes would be marine I guess)

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Big Rob said:

From what I'm seeing, the crushers are great in 40k and overshadowed in AoS with their mortal versions. I guess I want to know if they are still playable in AoS, especially with a battalion to buff them and enough daemon heroes for babysitting loci. 

Good call with Tzeentch, in AoS the horrors are costly. Technically I could run a tzaangor/cultists list for 40k thousand sons that would be disciples of Tzeentch for AoS (minus the thousand sons hq choices, which all except daemon princes would be marine I guess)

Yes in 40k they are fantastic.

Having more than just 1attack with their hellblades and a strength 6-7 makes them rather useable and good.

The problem in aos with them is, that they cost about 40points more then the beloved Skullcrushers.

the next problem, is that they literally are not worth their points at all.

everything they can do, Skullcrushers will do better.

paying 180p for bloodcrusher , which might do 1-4 mortal wounds per round, just sucks.

id rather take a unit of 20-30Bloodletters and both em up with some prayers.

in such a way they might do 15-20mortal wounds per round.

 

 

[Big Rob]

10 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes in 40k they are fantastic.

Having more than just 1attack with their hellblades and a strength 6-7 makes them rather useable and good.

The problem in aos with them is, that they cost about 40points more then the beloved Skullcrushers.

the next problem, is that they literally are not worth their points at all.

everything they can do, Skullcrushers will do better.

paying 180p for bloodcrusher , which might do 1-4 mortal wounds per round, just sucks.

id rather take a unit of 20-30Bloodletters and both em up with some prayers.

in such a way they might do 15-20mortal wounds per round.

 

 

Thanks for the insightful reply. 

I'm surprised there's such a discrepancy in damage. Skullcrushers essentially have 2 hellblade attacks instead of 1, but they don't get the mortal wounds and the loci for rerolls. For only a10 point difference (140 vs 150?) I'd imagine their offense would be similar. Defense-wise the skullcrusher would definitely pull through though.

[kenshin620]

Maybe its me but I'd be perfectly fine with someone using bloodcrushers as count as skullcrushers! (heck I think it'd be cool to see a unit of skullcrushers made up of both mortals and daemons) ?

If it's friendly games of course. Tournies is probably a nono.

[GeneralZero]

can we extend this to other chaos daemons such as nurgle and slanesh (well, this one will be refresh start2019)

I mean, what's about a nugle daemon list for both 40k and aos?

[kenshin620]

7 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

can we extend this to other chaos daemons such as nurgle and slanesh (well, this one will be refresh start2019)

I mean, what's about a nugle daemon list for both 40k and aos?

Well I don't know much about mono daemons in 40k, but in aos Nurgle is pretty good with Plaguebearers tanking and plague drones doing the damage (but non flying nurgle units are SLOW so be careful of the drones out pacing everyone else). Although generally might want to bring a rotbringer wizard to have blades of purification on hand.

Slaanesh from what I can tell are actually in a pretty decent spot with their GHB summoning update. Fill up on high wound heroes and use big blocks of daemonettes to get right in the enemies face really fast. I think pure daemon slaanesh isn't a bad way to run them.

[Big Rob]

3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Well I don't know much about mono daemons in 40k, but in aos Nurgle is pretty good with Plaguebearers tanking and plague drones doing the damage (but non flying nurgle units are SLOW so be careful of the drones out pacing everyone else). Although generally might want to bring a rotbringer wizard to have blades of purification on hand.

Slaanesh from what I can tell are actually in a pretty decent spot with their GHB summoning update. Fill up on high wound heroes and use big blocks of daemonettes to get right in the enemies face really fast. I think pure daemon slaanesh isn't a bad way to run them.

Admittedly I'm not a Nurgle fan, mostly because of the aesthetic. Slaanesh could be cool but I'd wait for the new rules.  Looks like a fast army, new KoS would seal the deal.

[Hannibal]

Nurgle is prety fine in both AoS and 40k. In AoS you might invest in some mortal heros too just to gain access to some special rules. 

Plaguebearers are hard to shift in both games. They won't do much damage, but they will last long. Good for objective grabbing. 

 

Nurglings are some of the best objective grabbers in 40k, in AoS they help with their deployment rules. They are more resilent than one might think. 

 

Daemonprinces are the shiny toy of 40k, never seen them being played in AoS. 

 

Great Unclean One: the one with bell is the best supporting one in both games. Lacks damage output. Good command ability in AoS. 

 

Rotigus. Good damage output in 40k. No experience in AoS though. 

 

Poxbringer. Good low level hero in both games. 

 

Bilepiper. Depending on your army it could be worth it in 40k. 

 

Scrivener. Really good in 40k, never played in AoS. 

 

Plague Drones. In 40k they are used to screen Daemonprinces, in AoS they are one of the deadliest units (if not the deadliest) Nurgle Daemons have access to. 

 

Overall: right now you can't go wrong with Nurgle Daemons in both Systems!

 

While mixing Chaos marks might be a good idea in 40k, it doesn't really work in AoS. 

Therefore stick to one god, Nurgle and Tzeentch might be the best ones. Tzaangors can be played in both games and they  even will be part of the upcoming beastmen book in AoS. 

[erasercrumbs]

Nurgle daemons are pretty good in 40k. Nurglings are troop choices so you can really go nuts with them. Plaguebearers are slow but can be given once per game buffs that will let them chew through almost anything for one crucial turn. The biggest weakness with Nurgle in 40k is a lack of anti-armor, so you have to rely on mortal wounds and masses of one damage pings to stop tanks. Speaking of mortal wounds, the Nurgle psychic powers are arguably the best overall in Chaos, with a solid mix of offensive and defensive abilities. Beasts of Nurgle have poor stats but are way cheaper than in AoS, and a unit of three will frustrate your opponent to no end. Just like in AoS, Poxbringers are your workhorses and I always take at least two, no matter the point size of the game.

Never played with or against Tzeentch, but he seems good on paper, and offers a psychic power that grants a reroll that might be the most utilitarian power in the game, even more so than Smite.