AoS 2 - Archaon / Everchosen Discussion

[Revan123]

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Oh cool, i am trying to fiure out the basis, the  varangyr are the main reason why i am starting AoS though.  I used to be an really aggressive WFB player so i feel this is a good set up

The problem of varanguard is the lack of FNP mostly and big cost per wound. So any shooty army will be a big problem, especially Haradrons or Fyreslayers (30 beard faces that drop in front of you with -1 rend shooting). Death is not that problem because they ignore spells on 4+ and they can deal with blobs of skeleton (with spears). But Nighthaunt will be a problem because of their invulnarable save. 

Khorne with letters just smash all of them, unless you will be out of reach somehow. Nurgle will be not that big deal, especially if you will be able to put at least a mystic shield on squad. Tzeench is not a problem, only skyfires will be nasty with mortal wounds and big range. 

The Daughters of Khaine always a walking nightmare, so most of the armies suffer from them. 

For the rest I can't say for sure, can be really good or it will end badly, 

Also there are a problem with scoring objectives of course. 

[Marauder Mitch]

True, so there is no way i could get an ok Competitive force with varangyr and Archaon.  I was speaking to Tom Lyon about it and he ssaid they are lacking something.  Originally with the 3 Battleline i was toying with fateweaver in the force.  Shame as i feel it could be an awesome idea.

[Revan123]

I was thinking now about khorne list with archaon, which will be more tanky. So one unit of varanguard as allies, 10 chaos chosen, juggalord, aspiring death bringer, bloodsecretor, two slaughter priest with bronze flesh, which will make two of this squad really tanky. But probably I could not get gore piligrims because of the cost, becayse I need to fill three battleline with bloodreavers

[Marauder Mitch]

Oh thats a good idea as allies and then go another Chaos God.  I will be toying around with ideas before starting to buy them.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

Weird that he can't join the one truly undivided allegiance but ah well, guess I won't be picking him up any time soon unless the darkoath release let's us take him.

[Xasz]

2 hours ago, Revan123 said:

In my list Archaon is paired with GUO and 60 plaguebearers, so he is not only fearsome for opponent, but with buffs (cogs, +1 attack, +2 to wound because of juglord and the wheel of Nurgle) he can be a threat to the opponent's middle line and sometimes even backline. Especially when I put a tree or even two on the field, so he can charge after advance. 

Yeah, that setup has been around for a while but it doesn't really fit my playstyle. I kind had my fill on death stars and semi-death stars from my 40k days.

 

30 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Weird that he can't join the one truly undivided allegiance but ah well, guess I won't be picking him up any time soon unless the darkoath release let's us take him.

The community/hive mind more or less expects that Everchosen and StD will merge somehow. If Darkoath takes part in this or will be an entirely new faction is everyone's guess. My personal dream would be a simple merge plus new Darkoath models replacing (something GW rarely does) StD Marauders. In contrast to Warriors or Knights (which seem timeless), they've aged terribly and building them should fall under Geneva conventions.

So, some keyword shifting is not unlikely but obviously one should take these whispers with a grain of salt as there is currently no substance to them.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

13 minutes ago, Xasz said:

 

The community/hive mind more or less expects that Everchosen and StD will merge somehow. If Darkoath takes part in this or will be an entirely new faction is everyone's guess. My personal dream would be a simple merge plus new Darkoath models replacing (something GW rarely does) StD Marauders. In contrast to Warriors or Knights (which seem timeless), they've aged terribly and building them should fall under Geneva conventions.

So, some keyword shifting is not unlikely but obviously one should take these whispers with a grain of salt as there is currently no substance to them.

Well since the ordinator heralded the sacrosanct chamber and knight of shrouds heralded nighthaunt as a double release, it stands to reason that moonclan and darkoath would get a double release as well. Albeit this will likely come after the big slaanesh/khorne push for 40k since daemon models are cross compatible.Also as someone who recently built marauder horsemen i can agree, the models need a new redesign, this will hopefully come with the darkoath nightvault warband that's been teased. And hopefully when a battletome eventually drops it will incorporate elements of everchosen because that battletome seems like a rip off. Lorewise at least the war queen is going around enslaving other god worshipping warbands into one big undivided warband so we'll see what comes from that.

[Tasman]

4 hours ago, Revan123 said:

But I still think that Slaanesh will be not that great compare to Daughters of Khaine, because they can damage properly and suffer through a lot of damage. Slaanesh can do only damage. So why not take Khorne instead then, unless you really like those girls? 

Daemonettes=/>DoK IMO. Bravery 10, banner for possible unit region, double pile ins. I'm playing DoK now while waiting for the REAL murderesses.

[Xasz]

1 minute ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

 And hopefully when a battletome eventually drops it will incorporate elements of everchosen because that battletome seems like a rip off.

I can't really blame them on that one.

It was a very early battletome, long before GW had figured the direction of battletomes and AoS as a whole out.

I'm hopeful that we will see some kind of undivided/generic/mark-able Chaos-tome next year. Something to properly represent the legions Archaon has fostered over the centuries.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

6 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I'm hopeful that we will see some kind of undivided/generic/mark-able Chaos-tome next year. Something to properly represent the legions Archaon has fostered over the centuries.

Well any markable unit can join any god aligned army, so stuff like chaos warriors and ungor make for a good backbone for folks that want to run different armies since you don't have to invest in many god specific units. But still and undivided specific allegiance is what I like, hence why I currently run STD, but a proper battletome supported army has to happen eventually. Probably after the rest of the chaos factions get proper battletomes since now skaven may have to be included. Great horned rat mark when gw?

[Xasz]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Probably after the rest of the chaos factions get proper battletomes since now skaven may have to be included. Great horned rat mark when gw?

An Everchosen/StD update or merge will still be mortals only.

I wouldn't expect an LoN-style battletome either as Chaos sub-factions are not lacking models and Skaven are a very different kind of chaos worshiper. Not to mention that lore-wise mortals consider Beastmen and Skaven to be lesser than themselves and really, the ratmen deserve their very own book (there the LoN-style would make sense)

[Lightbox]

How's this for a Tzeentch archaon list? Trying the idea of the 2 fatemasters for shenanigans with rerolls from their command ability. Can't say I'm sure it'll do much though. Good beatstick potential though!

 

ArchaonTzeentch2k.pdf

 

My only problem though is the lack of giving any + to wounds to make destiny dicing for slayer of kings easier. One of my friends brings a frostfire pheonix so -1 to wound is a realistic problem for me. Though I suppose vs him I can swap out the varanguard to ally in a khorne juggerlord. I also need to look through spells again as been a while since I brought out my tzeentch.

[Revan123]

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Though I suppose vs him I can swap out the varanguard to ally in a khorne juggerlord. I also need to look through spells again as been a while since I brought out my tzeentch.

You can't take jagga lord, Khorne is not  Tzeench's ally. I can say about the list, that  against Nagash spells are almost useless. And you don't have enough force to kill something big or survive it's strike, aside from Archaon, who is not one man army. At least not in this list with mediocre level of buffs

[Lightbox]

1 hour ago, Revan123 said:

You can't take jagga lord, Khorne is not  Tzeench's ally. I can say about the list, that  against Nagash spells are almost useless. And you don't have enough force to kill something big or survive it's strike, aside from Archaon, who is not one man army. At least not in this list with mediocre level of buffs

I'll be honest. I don't play in a competetive envinronment. Nagash is not going to be something I'll encounter. My main opponents will likely be khorne mortals, mixed elves (with a frostfire pheonix which is annoying for Archie) and possibly deepkin eels (they'll be a pain)

I'll agree on low buffs, it'll come down a lot to spells really alas but I'm not entirely sure on how much buffs tzeentch can really throw out. If they do have some good stuff I've somehow forgotten about do tell! Otherwise I know nurgle can pack some nice buffs for archy but I'm sure he can work in other alleigances too.

 

As for damage 20 tzaangors can be surprisingly effective at knocking down units, they've yet to let me down. And spear varanguard can really pack a punch on the charge. Though it is a small amount I'll agree.

 

I do find archaon difficult to build with, even in my more casual environment. Just need to get used to working with lower points.

 

Also cheers on the no juggerlord, rarely have my books to hand when I'm able to check tga ?

 

As much as I like to get archy using his command ability I am thinking the whole 2 fatemaster gimmick is too costly for what it could possibly do. May be better to drop them for more bodies.

 

Taking some of that on though here's a list rewrite potentially packing a bit more punch and threat. Alas I've had to drop my beloved Varanguard TzeentchArchaon2.pdf

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

So I'm considering getting Archaon in the next couple months as a christmas present to myself ?

I normally run slaves to darkness when I play chaos but since Archaon for some reason not even known to tzeench can't join slaves to darkness, I'm going to run him in a khorne list (mostly because khorne is the only one who can use their points mechanic for something other than daemons).

I'm thinking warriors as battleline, probably 3X10, not sure whether i want to do dual weapon or shield.

A warshrine to give archaon any buff he needs since he has every keyword he benefits from the reroll fails and not just reroll 1s.

A bloodstoker because of course archaon wants more charging and wounding potential.

Some knights and maybe a gorebeast chariot for mobile damage.

Valkia so I have another good stabby hero.

And probably use marauders as fodder (I know reavers would be better in this case but i don't want to buy reavers for a list I'll only occasionally run  and the marauders are cheaper points wise anyways).

I've also got magores fiends, a lord of chaos on foot and marauder horsemen but i'm not sure if any of those would be worth running in a khorne list themed around archaon. I suppose the lord of chaos could work since he's basically 2 free bloodpoints between him and the chaos spawn that replaces him after he dies. 

I haven't gotten around to making a proper list yet as I've just been kicking the idea around (and most of my focus atm is on an upcoming 40k tournament).

Any thoughts? Would it be worth running khorne with only a couple khorne heroes? 

[Kevlar1972]

16 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Valkia so I have another good stabby hero.

I'd consider the daemon prince over valkia. He's fairly mobile and quite a nice beat stick when tooled up.   Give him an artifact that will buff him and archaon.  Crimson crown or mark of the slayer are nice.   You could even make the prince the general since archaeon gets no benefit from it in AoS 2.0, and give him a nice battle trait like immense power or devastating blow.  Though it would be almost criminal to take archaon and make someone else the general lol.

 

[Lightbox]

@Lucky Snake Eyes just remember the shrine can't change buffs in game. You have to select what mark it has at the start. But otherwise yes it's useful to buff archaon as he does get to be a khorne hero.

 

The juggernaut lord is good for buffing his wound rolls if you have one so he can get slayer of kings easier.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

3 hours ago, Lightbox said:

@Lucky Snake Eyes just remember the shrine can't change buffs in game. You have to select what mark it has at the start. But otherwise yes it's useful to buff archaon as he does get to be a khorne hero.

 

The juggernaut lord is good for buffing his wound rolls if you have one so he can get slayer of kings easier.

Thanks for the advice, I'll probably look into getting a jugg lord since I can double it as a lord on daemonic mount when i run my slaves to darkness.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

7 hours ago, Kevlar1972 said:

I'd consider the daemon prince over valkia. He's fairly mobile and quite a nice beat stick when tooled up.   Give him an artifact that will buff him and archaon.  Crimson crown or mark of the slayer are nice.   You could even make the prince the general since archaeon gets no benefit from it in AoS 2.0, and give him a nice battle trait like immense power or devastating blow.  Though it would be almost criminal to take archaon and make someone else the general lol.

 

I run valkia partially because of good burst damage on the charge and for the reroll failed battleshock which helps hold my marauders together.

[Revan123]

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which helps hold my marauders together.

You don't need hold marauders in check, if you have bloodsecrator. He is too good for his 140 pts

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

7 minutes ago, Revan123 said:

You don't need hold marauders in check, if you have bloodsecrator. He is too good for his 140 pts

I don't own a bloodsecrator, nor am I willing to buy any of the boxes he comes in since I don't want the mighty lord of khorne or all the stuff that comes in the khorne start collecting. There are also no khorne players in my area that i could split the box with. For the time being Valkia is my go to khorne hero, especially since my one daemon prince is kept off the board for the event that my lord of chaos get's his apotheosis.

[Tasman]

18 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

I don't own a bloodsecrator, nor am I willing to buy any of the boxes he comes in since I don't want the mighty lord of khorne or all the stuff that comes in the khorne start collecting. There are also no khorne players in my area that i could split the box with. For the time being Valkia is my go to khorne hero, especially since my one daemon prince is kept off the board for the event that my lord of chaos get's his apotheosis.

Surely you can kit bash something together?

[will pollock]

hey all, this is just a fun list i tried but having used it i havent lost a game, the main focus is making archaon into an absolute powerhouse, any advice?

heroes:

archaon-660

aspiring deathbringer-80

bloodsecrator-140

slaanesh lord on mount- 140

great unclean one- 340

glottkin-420

battle line:

reavers x 10 - 70

reavers x 10 - 70

reavers x 10 - 70

general idea is to use all command abilities on archaon and just wreck everything, are there any ways i can buff his save?

 

[Xasz]

36 minutes ago, will pollock said:

hey all, this is just a fun list i tried but having used it i havent lost a game, the main focus is making archaon into an absolute powerhouse, any advice?

heroes:

archaon-660

aspiring deathbringer-80

bloodsecrator-140

slaanesh lord on mount- 140

great unclean one- 340

glottkin-420

battle line:

reavers x 10 - 70

reavers x 10 - 70

reavers x 10 - 70

general idea is to use all command abilities on archaon and just wreck everything, are there any ways i can buff his save?

 

The ADeathbringer and Bloodsecrator seem rather pointless considering the game plan of this archetype.

You could switch to a different battleline setup and run Nurgle allegiance for Gnarmaws (run and charge) plus Wheel of Corruption (movement+, toWound+...). The Slaanesh Lord, Bloodstoker and Mighty Lord on Juggernaut can still be taken as allies and are a boon for Archaon.

[will pollock]

30 minutes ago, Xasz said:

The ADeathbringer and Bloodsecrator seem rather pointless considering the game plan of this archetype.

You could switch to a different battleline setup and run Nurgle allegiance for Gnarmaws (run and charge) plus Wheel of Corruption (movement+, toWound+...). The Slaanesh Lord, Bloodstoker and Mighty Lord on Juggernaut can still be taken as allies and are a boon for Archaon.

idk i find he is fast enough as is, the general plan is to buff the attacks for the instakill slayer of kings