AoS 2 - Archaon / Everchosen Discussion

[Gaz Taylor]

Here is the new thread for discussing Archaon / Everchosen. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Archaon / Everchosen in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section. But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

[Xasz]

Thanks @Gaz Taylor!

9 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

On 7/23/2018 at 11:00 AM, Xasz said:

@Luke1705

I personally don't like the lack of a 3rd wizard.

Every round you pretty much want to cast:

• Plague Squall
• Blades
• Fleshy Abundance
• Regenesis to set the wheel back to 5 or if need be 2

There is no room for Geminids, although there is an argument to be made to cast them over Plague Squall, unless they are already on the board. Either way, there is still no 'optional' or 'open' cast to get rid of an endless spell that already hit the board.

It's probably a play style/preference thing.

Concerning the FAQ... I'm just waiting for it to finally drop, so I can order the rest of my army.

I worked out various variants of the Archaon/Nurgle list...

• with Plaguetouched (for the unlikely event of an 180 on the previous FAQ)
• with Sorcerer Lord/Balewind/Geminids
• with Sorcerer Lord/a unit Blightkings instead of endless spells 
• with Nurgle Sorcerer/a unit of Blightkings/Geminids
• no Sorcerers/no endless spells/2 units of Blightkings
• no Sorcerers/a unit of Blightkings/2 full units of Marauders/Geminids (although this on is not really a consideration, as I would hate to buy another 40 dudes which are likely to be discontinued and haven't aged that well model-wise)

So, FAQ please.  

I feel you. I’m thinking that what I’ll gravitate towards is this:

Archaon (plague squall, wheel)

Glottkin (blades, fleshy)

Harbinger of decay (witherstave)

Lord of blights

40 marauders

40 marauders

10 plaguebearers

Geminids

1940

It does require me to sacrifice either the wheel or plague squall when I summon the geminids, but I’m really ok with that  to bring on the geminids, even if I can’t stack the debuffs any more. I could sacrifice the geminids for a squad of blight kings, but I’m not really a fan of that. The debuffs are too important.

Maybe it's not a big deal in the game.

I'll probably roll with one of these for my first couple games with this army:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
Sorcerer (120)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

I really do not like the double Marauders, but that's more a logistic issue than anything else.

[Drib]

Does someone have any insight or opinion if the Varanguard with Slaanesh keyword (obviously asigned in the game) get the Seeker Host Bonuses?

I would say yes, as the requirement is only the keyword.

[Xasz]

41 minutes ago, Drib said:

Does someone have any insight or opinion if the Varanguard with Slaanesh keyword (obviously asigned in the game) get the Seeker Host Bonuses?

I would say yes, as the requirement is only the keyword.

I'd gravitate to yes, but I'm not sure if I missed something. (like, allegiance abilities never apply to allies or likewise)

[EMMachine]

1 hour ago, Drib said:

Does someone have any insight or opinion if the Varanguard with Slaanesh keyword (obviously asigned in the game) get the Seeker Host Bonuses?

I would say yes, as the requirement is only the keyword.

Sadly Varanguard can't profit from Allegiance Abilities like Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Khorne or Nurgle.

The problem is, they get the Keyword during the herophase, not during set-up.

Only units that have there keyword from the beginning or get it during set-up (like Slaves to Darkness) count towards the Allegiance.

The Varanguard will most likly be an allied unit (if it's not an Grand Alliance Chaos or Everchosen army) and will therefor never profit from the Allegiance Abilities of the 4 Chaosgods.

[Luke1705]

1 hour ago, Xasz said:

I really do not like the double Marauders, but that's more a logistic issue than anything else.

Trust me I feel you, I had the seem thought and came up with both of your lists. What I found is that with one blob of marauders, you really need an extra command point for inspiring presence, especially for those armies that can reach out and touch them turn 1 before you get any buffs up. So I’m functionally capped at 1950, which got rid of the sorcerer lord since the lord on slaanesh mount took me down from 1960 to 1940.

The second brick of marauders I do feel is necessary competitively, but to be fair I’m still learning how to maximize the buff auras while maintaining a maximal board presence. I’ve also only played a handful of games of 2.0, so that feeling may change with time.

[Xasz]

1 hour ago, Drib said:

Does someone have any insight or opinion if the Varanguard with Slaanesh keyword (obviously asigned in the game) get the Seeker Host Bonuses?

I would say yes, as the requirement is only the keyword.

Found the ruling for what I feared.

Quote

Q: Some spell and prayer allegiance abilities say that can be used by Wizards or Priests in the army. Does this include allied Wizards or Priests?

A: No. Allied models cannot use or benefit from allegiance abilities

The question is different, but the answer covers your case.

It can be found in the Designer's Commentary for the Core Rules on page 7.

[EMMachine]

@Xasz

In the end, the corerules itself say in the Corerule PDF on Page 17, Allies:

Quote

Allied units are treated as part of
your army, except that they are not
included when working out your
army’s allegiance, and can therefore
be part of a different Grand Alliance
or faction. In addition, an allied
model cannot be the army’s general,
and cannot use or benefit from your
army’s allegiance abilities.

 

[kurtces]

19 hours ago, Xasz said:

Thanks @Gaz Taylor!

Maybe it's not a big deal in the game.

I'll probably roll with one of these for my first couple games with this army:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
Sorcerer (120)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

I really do not like the double Marauders, but that's more a logistic issue than anything else.

Hi,

and, what about horticulous slimux in this nurgle armies? In the third turn, you can have a lot of contagion point to summon a lot of deamons, having 3 trees en turn 2.

[Xasz]

54 minutes ago, kurtces said:

Hi,

and, what about horticulous slimux in this nurgle armies? In the third turn, you can have a lot of contagion point to summon a lot of deamons, having 3 trees en turn 2.

Haven't really thought about him.

He doesn't have a lot of synergies with the rest, but he certainly has his niche. Although I find him rather expensive for what he does.

[kurtces]

1 hour ago, Xasz said:

Haven't really thought about him.

He doesn't have a lot of synergies with the rest, but he certainly has his niche. Although I find him rather expensive for what he does.

It's expensive, it's true, but with this guy you can get easily 33 contagion points in the third turn and summon a lot of deamons.

I don't tested him. Has someone tested him in a battle?

[Drib]

48 minutes ago, Drib said:

  Hide contents

6 hours ago, BradReligion said:

Morning friends,

Messing around with some lists for my Slaanesh Daemons and this one struck me. 

Allegiance: Slaanesh
Leaders
Archaon (660)
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
- General
- Trait: Devotee of Torment 
Keeper Of Secrets (260)
Daemon Prince Of Slaanesh (160)
Lord Of Slaanesh On Daemonic Mount (140)
Herald Of Slaanesh on Exalted Seeker Chariot (160)
Battleline
5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)
- Claw spear
5 x Hellstriders Of Slaanesh (100)
- Claw spear
10 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (100)
Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

So the basic jist of it is (and assuming I've got the hang of Allegiances and Allegiance abilities)....
- I have 4 heavy-hitting units (Archaon, 2xKoS and the Daemon Prince) who move a minimum of 16 inches each turn and charge 2D6+4; an average of 27 inches for the slowest of those 4 models assuming the Cogs go off
- Using Archaon's Command Ability activating all of the other Command Abilities, I have 3 units of my choice (obvs Archaon and the 2 KoS) that can pile in and attack twice in the combat phase. And one of those Keepers can pile in from 6" away for both activations
- I get the summoning ability from the Depravity Points system for wounds caused on my Slaanesh heroes (of which they all are), and wounds caused on enemy heroes (of which there will be plenty of).

All of this is assuming I've got Allegiance Abilities right which there is a really strong chance I don't. Can you guys confirm any of this for me?

Cheers in advance, y'all!

 

I also like the Slaanesh-way for Archaon, but I am taking a different aproach. But first considering the Allegiance:

- Archaon needs to be your General for his Command Ability (Or Invader Host).

- You get Depravity points for every non-killing wound not only on Heroes.

So considering your list, I don't like the Keeper of Secrets as he is not worth his 260 point, in my opinion. I would also sugguest to include more Bodies to get a hold on objectives.

My Archaon Slaanesh list looks like this:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Seekers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
The Masque Of Slaanesh (80)
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- Artefact: Fallacious Gift
Chaos Lord Of Slaanesh (100)

Battleline
20 x Chaos Warriors (360)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Daemonettes Of Slaanesh (100)

Units
3 x Varanguard (280)
- Daemonforged Blade
- Allies

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 280 / 400
Wounds: 122

It has a good amount of wounds and Bodies, good synergy with Command Abilities and the Varanguard on top of it. I aspecially like the Fallacious Gift, used on an enemy's ranged weapon, to give him a choice. 

1 hour ago, Trayanee said:

Ok, maybe I am just silly, so please correct me If necessary...first, they changed many CAs to work in different phases and after that changed Archaon's CA to only effect hero phase CAs? Really?

That's true!But I am happy it did not hit Slaanesh so far. Nurgle should be ok(?) and Tzeentch does only have two still in the hero phase. But on the Skaven side there were some cut-offs. I am not too sure for the other factions like Khorne or Slaves to Darkness haven't checked them yet as I am more into Tzeentch and Slaanesh.

As @Xasz pointed out, this discussion should be held in one spot (here).

[Snakeb1te]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_everchosen_designers_commentary_en.pdf

 

Anyone had a look at this yet? It seems like you can't use these battalions for wholly nurgle/khorne/slaanesh/tzeentchian armies anymore. That's kind of ****** isn't it? I wanted to build a StD army of khorne, with these battalions but now they've decided they're allies only? Come on. - obviously you can't ally all the points required to fulfil the requirements of the batallions.

[Arkiham]

8 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_everchosen_designers_commentary_en.pdf

 

Anyone had a look at this yet? It seems like you can't use these battalions for wholly nurgle/khorne/slaanesh/tzeentchian armies anymore. That's kind of ****** isn't it? I wanted to build a StD army of khorne, with these battalions but now they've decided they're allies only? Come on. - obviously you can't ally all the points required to fulfil the requirements of the batallions.

they're killing them off. 

they're basically doing to them what they done to compendium armies 

[Xasz]

20 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_everchosen_designers_commentary_en.pdf

 

Anyone had a look at this yet? It seems like you can't use these battalions for wholly nurgle/khorne/slaanesh/tzeentchian armies anymore. That's kind of ****** isn't it? I wanted to build a StD army of khorne, with these battalions but now they've decided they're allies only? Come on. - obviously you can't ally all the points required to fulfil the requirements of the batallions.

Yeah, this is an additional clarification to the one from the Core Rules Commentary, to make absolutely sure the message is coming across.

Reason for this is most likely that GW wants clearer borders between allegiances/books/armies and not enforce cherry picking from different sources (it's easier to balance this way as well).

To be honest, it wouldn't be such an issue if the Everchosen book would be a lot more well rounded, which will happen eventually. At some point big daddy Archaon is gonna make his move and they can do very interesting things with Everchosen... like rolling some Slaves to Darkness into this, give it summoning but only for the lesser daemons, a unique ally system so Everchosen can consist of a majority of allies with some additional restriction (take more nurgle, have less access to Tzeentch...), spells, artifacts and so on. Could become a rather interesting book if they decide to rework it in time.

[Xasz]

45 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Playing around with Nurgle and archaon on warscroll builder and came up with this. It is pure lol

Archaon

Kayzk the befowled

Harbinger of decay

Lord of Blights

Lord of Blights

40 Maruaders with axe and shield, mark of nurgle

40 Maruaders with axe and shield, mark of nurgle

10 Blightkings.

1940

Leaves 60 points for +1 cp or cogs. 

Cogs turn one would make the marauders base move 8, run d6 +1 , charge (feculant gnarlmaws)  2d6+3.

80 marauders which are all 5+/5++, -2 to hit vs shooting and -1 to hit vs melee, and immune to battlshock. Alternatively take out one of the LoB for Gutrot to ambush with the 10 kings. 

In this case I can see the Cogs, the additional command point doesn't offer much in a Archaon list. Nevertheless I'm not a big of the majority of endless spells and Cogs is one of them. I'm still convinced that they are mostly a trap and points grave.

Kayzk isn't especially killy and his ability can be more or less substituted with an additional CP and use of Inspiring Presence (if you expect Archaon not being around or the crown not being enough). The unit doesn't have to be wholly within 14" for that either. Maybe I'm missing something.  (Ah, I missed that it affects all units and not just one, interesting)

Otherwise super solid list for sure, kinda miss the Glottkin and Blades though.

[RoyalDachshund]

Any ideas for Tzeentch oriented Archaon list?

I have a Nurgle army and so far it is a no-brainer to make Nurgle-Archaon list.

But I'm getting tired of painting rot and rust all the time so I've thought to myself "some bright magic mumbo-jumbo can be good". 

[Cambot1231]

14 minutes ago, RoyalDachshund said:

Any ideas for Tzeentch oriented Archaon list?

I have a Nurgle army and so far it is a no-brainer to make Nurgle-Archaon list.

But I'm getting tired of painting rot and rust all the time so I've thought to myself "some bright magic mumbo-jumbo can be good". 

Having a tzeentch archaon  list with 2 Fatemasters to insure re-rolls could be a thing. Gives you more opportunities to delete heroes with king slayer and they each can keep up with him and are pretty tanky. 

[Tasman]

Obviously a LoC.  Or Kairos to get the one time dice shenanigan for kingslayer,

[Rob Ellis]

With Varanguard, if you were to assign them a mark at the beginning of the hero phase then surely command abilities/spells that effect said keywords would be able to be used on them? If not in that hero phase, in subsequent ones?

[Xasz]

33 minutes ago, Rob Ellis said:

With Varanguard, if you were to assign them a mark at the beginning of the hero phase then surely command abilities/spells that effect said keywords would be able to be used on them? If not in that hero phase, in subsequent ones?

That's correct and you choose the order of the abilities in your hero phase. So you can activate Archaon's Command right at the start.

The issue are command traits or in more general terms allegiance abilities as a whole.

[Xasz]

Two Archaon-lists made it into the top 5 of Blackout.

I parsed them into a more readable format

3rd place:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Lord of Blights (140)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Lord of Blights (140)

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)

Battalions
Plaguetouched Warband (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 171
 

5th place:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- General
- Trait: Cult Demagogue 
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Herald Of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (440)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
 

The second one used Paradoxical Shield on the Shaman, which made the list illegal. I hope this was an honest mistake, as several people had issues processing the FAQ. Specifically the part where a section from the Khorne and Tzeentch book regarding artifacts was replaced and people falsely believed that the mortal/daemon restrictions were no longer active for them. (although, it's kinda suspicious, given the release date of said FAQ)

I hope I didn't make any mistakes, the Nurgle list was almost impossible to read.

[Tasman]

38 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Two Archaon-lists made it into the top 5 of Blackout.

I parsed them into a more readable format

3rd place:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- General
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Lord of Blights (140)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Lord of Blights (140)

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)

Battalions
Plaguetouched Warband (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 171
 

5th place:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Archaon (660)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- General
- Trait: Cult Demagogue 
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Herald Of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (440)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
 

The second one used Paradoxical Shield on the Shaman, which made the list illegal. I hope this was an honest mistake, as several people had issues processing the FAQ. Specifically the part where a section from the Khorne and Tzeentch book regarding artifacts was replaced and people falsely believed that the mortal/daemon restrictions were no longer active for them. (although, it's kinda suspicious, given the release date of said FAQ)

I hope I didn't make any mistakes, the Nurgle list was almost impossible to read.

Just being a nitpicker here, but wouldn't the Ungors in list one be considered allies?

[Xasz]

8 hours ago, Tasman said:

Just being a nitpicker here, but wouldn't the Ungors in list one be considered allies?

No, it was GA: Chaos.

That's why he could run Plaguetouched Warband like that.

[Chris Tomlin]

11 hours ago, Xasz said:

The second one used Paradoxical Shield on the Shaman, which made the list illegal. I hope this was an honest mistake, as several people had issues processing the FAQ. Specifically the part where a section from the Khorne and Tzeentch book regarding artifacts was replaced and people falsely believed that the mortal/daemon restrictions were no longer active for them. (although, it's kinda suspicious, given the release date of said FAQ)

I hope I didn't make any mistakes, the Nurgle list was almost impossible to read.

Hey,

Thanks for taking the time to write them out like this. I will double check @Adymc's list at home and let you know if there are any errors. His was actually the nicest list in terms of presentation - unfortunately that did not translate well into the scanner app I have on my phone!

In terms of @Nigehelm's list - I can 100% guarantee the error would've been an honest one and I apologise for not picking up on it. This is part of the reason why I will be moving back to list submission prior to events, so things like this can be accurately picked up beforehand.

When lists are submitted on the day, I spend all of round one reading through these and also requested that the players spent a few mins at the beginning to check each others list, but of course a few can slip through the net when you are reading nearly 100 lists (there is at least one other illegal list I found).

At this stage of AoS2, errors are going to be commonplace and I'd wager there are more illegal lists in there . As TO I take the ultimate responsibility for this and this is why I will make the changes going forward regarding list submission.

I definitely don't want to derail this thread or get into a protracted debate on the subject, but wanted to at least address it.

Thanks, Chris