Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Forestreveries]

Has it been FAQ:d wether or not you can spirit path your way out of combat yet? And if so, does it count as retreating or just moving?
Btw, won an epic three-way battle against Stormcast Eternals and Beastclaw Raiders a few weeks ago. On the last dice of the game my Treelord Ancient secured me the victory with his Massive Impaling Talon. [emoji6]

The retreat rules are pretty clear.

If you are within 3" of an enemy unit you may remain stationary or retreat. If you retreat you can't charge or shoot and have to end 3" from any enemy models.

To me that doesn't prohibit use of Spirit Paths but if you do it still has to follow the rules for retreating.


Awesome way to win the game. The impaling talon is so satisfying when it goes off!

Aaron


Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Xerek]

Here's an Attack heavy Gnarlroot list.  I was trying to get Free Spirits as well, but found it difficult without going 20pts over. Thoughts?  In order to get Free sprits, I would swap a Branchwych and TLA for Durthu and Swap a unit of Dryads for Tree-Revenants.  Though with only 2 casters, is Gnarlroot still worth taking?

Leaders
Branchwych (100)
- Artefact: The Silverwood Circlet
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri
Treelord Ancient (300)
Branchwych (100)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages

Units
Tree Kin x 6 (200)
Dryads x 10 (120)
Dryads x 10 (120)
Tree-Revenants x 5 (100)
Kurnoth Hunters x 3 (180)
- Scythes
Kurnoth Hunters x 6 (360)
- Greatbows

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Household (20)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (80)

Total: 1980/2000

 

[Aezeal]

You could take Drycha, she's a caster good ranged attack (I d go squirmlings) doesn't get 2x spell casting but does get gnarlroor spell and ofc a deepwood spell . Between her own spell and magic bolt she has damage options so Id give her regrowth for self heal. Ofc no free spirits then and less melee power so maybe it's not enough of anything.

[MidasKiss]

13 hours ago, Sigwarus said:

I attended and won a 40p turnement with your list 2 (eccept I splitted the bow hunters into 2 units). I played aggressively and always took the first turn. Teleporting around The field gives a lot of mobility.  

You're probably right on two units for the bows, I wrote them all out in 3's when I was counting points and then quickly swapped them into 6's but like you said there's no real reason to do that (and in fact it's worse). I'm glad you won with the list, that gives me hope

What was your general first turn movements like? Bows into high priorities, summon woods, move towards objectives, etc? 

[Nico]

Quote

To me that doesn't prohibit use of Spirit Paths but if you do it still has to follow the rules for retreating. 

I would say that it's not a move as it says "set it up" rather than move. However, that's a fairly minor difference, since you'll still be unable to move afterwards unless you roll a 6; and you will have to be 9 inches away from the enemy, so a charge is unlikely to come off. Furthermore, watch out for Gryph Hounds as all the Sylvaneth teleportation will trigger them - especially with the Lord Veritant lurking about.  

[Forestreveries]

To me that doesn't prohibit use of Spirit Paths but if you do it still has to follow the rules for retreating. 

I would say that it's not a move as it says "set it up" rather than move. However, that's a fairly minor difference, since you'll still be unable to move afterwards unless you roll a 6; and you will have to be 9 inches away from the enemy, so a charge is unlikely to come off. Furthermore, watch out for Gryph Hounds as all the Sylvaneth teleportation will trigger them - especially with the Lord Veritant lurking about.  

Interesting point of view.

I apologise if it was somebody else that was saying this (in fairly sure it was you though) but doesn't that debunk your idea of Free Spirits allowing you to teleport onto or at least around the table? That would be a "set up" not a move if that was the case surely?

Aaron

Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[Nico]

Maybe - it wasn't my idea.

I think it still works as Free Spirits gives you a move in a deemed movement phase within the hero phase. Then Forest Spirits allows you to set up the unit as this "is their move for that [i.e. the deemed] movement phase." You're trading a move for a set up effectively.

[Forestreveries]

Maybe - it wasn't my idea.

I think it still works as Free Spirits gives you a move in a deemed movement phase within the hero phase. Then Forest Spirits allows you to set up the unit as this "is their move for that [i.e. the deemed] movement phase." You're trading a move for a set up effectively.

I can see that it is worded slightly differently.

Forest Spirits specifically says "This is their move for that movement phase." Whereas Navigate Realmroots is an ability which when used forces you to forfeit your movement (unless you rolll the 6 of course).

So you would play it that you can emerge from a Wyldwood with Forest Spirits but not Navigate Realmroots once you are on the table?

Aaron

Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

[RossMHoward]

On 10/16/2016 at 0:10 PM, Aezeal said:

- generally being annoyed with me having 4 casters with tons of spells saying he couldn't keep track of what was happening

I would go fire and brimstone and tell him to pay attention. But when I played my first few games with Sylvaneth my opponents said they were a bit confused about who was casting what so I can sympathise. 

My advice - if you're not already doing it - is to pick a caster, cast their spells and stick to that caster until you've used up all of their spells. Then move on to the next. It also helps to give a quick recap each hero phase of the spells each caster has before casting to refresh your opponents memory and help them figure out what to unbind etc. 

[Sigwarus]

9 hours ago, MidasKiss said:

You're probably right on two units for the bows, I wrote them all out in 3's when I was counting points and then quickly swapped them into 6's but like you said there's no real reason to do that (and in fact it's worse). I'm glad you won with the list, that gives me hope

What was your general first turn movements like? Bows into high priorities, summon woods, move towards objectives, etc? 

Im working on some battlereports. 

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, RossMHoward said:

I would go fire and brimstone and tell him to pay attention. But when I played my first few games with Sylvaneth my opponents said they were a bit confused about who was casting what so I can sympathise. 

My advice - if you're not already doing it - is to pick a caster, cast their spells and stick to that caster until you've used up all of their spells. Then move on to the next. It also helps to give a quick recap each hero phase of the spells each caster has before casting to refresh your opponents memory and help them figure out what to unbind etc. 

Well it was my first game with the Gnarlroot magic mash too so I didn't really have a good grasp of who had what spell and what items (I mean they all had like 6-7 spells I think) so I'd start doing the damage spell with each of them and then decide on who would cast bolt, shield or a healing spell. It didn't help that I'd placed 3 x a 1 base wildwood (because I wanted to take it easy and not place 3 each cast) next to each other so basically all where in range of my casters :D, so I had a phase where for each spell of mine (I ended up casting only 4 times due to whining) 3 of his units (placed in 2 woods) where rolling for roused by magic.

[Sigwarus]

I posted a battlereport in my blog: 

 

 

[Mirage8112]

From the FAQ:

Q: What is ‘set-up’, exactly?

A: ‘Set-up’ is typically when a unit is placed on the table during deployment, but can also refer to a unit being deployed in a location other than on the battlefield, or being put into play once the game has started (a unit using the Stormcast Eternal Warrior Chamber’s Lightning Strike, the Chameleon Skinks’ Chameleon Ambush, or the Treelord’s Spirit Paths ability, for example). Models can set up within 3" of the enemy, even if they are set up in the movement phase, unless noted otherwise in the rules for the ability that allows them to be set up once the battle is under way. 

I think the spirit paths "set-up" is worded that way because the models temporarily "leave" the table when traveling the spirit paths (rather than gaining a temporarily increased movement or something) and are then "set-up" back on the table in a particular location. This is advantage because if there is deadly terrain (or something else, say enemy models) in between where the starting and ending point are, the model doesn't have to test or isn't blocked because technically, it isn't on the board.  

On 10/19/2016 at 1:47 AM, Nico said:

I would say that it's not a move as it says "set it up" rather than move. However, that's a fairly minor difference, since you'll still be unable to move afterwards unless you roll a 6; and you will have to be 9 inches away from the enemy, so a charge is unlikely to come off. Furthermore, watch out for Gryph Hounds as all the Sylvaneth teleportation will trigger them - especially with the Lord Veritant lurking about.  

I don't think whether or not the spirit-paths wording of "set-up" or "move" makes a difference. The rules for retreat say that if you are within 3" of an enemy at the start of the movement phase you may either "remain stationary" or "retreat". It is not specific in how  you move the models, but only how far the model ends up from it's starting position. 

Also, it's not whether the model "moves" that makes it unable to charge/shoot. It's where the model was at the start of the movement phase (i.e. within 3" of the enemy). So in the case of spirit paths, yes. you can use it, but no, you cannot shoot/charge after (regardless of how you roll on the chart.)
 

 

[Nico]

Quote

The rules for retreat say that if you are within 3" of an enemy at the start of the movement phase you may either "remain stationary" or "retreat". It is not specific in how  you move the models, but only how far the model ends up from it's starting position. 
 

I suppose this is a way to distinguish this situation from the Vexillor and Verminlord Deceiver - as these happen in the hero phase before the movement phase; and they are set up rules not moves - and so are clearly not retreats on two grounds.

[Mirage8112]

3 minutes ago, Nico said:

I suppose this is a way to distinguish this situation from the Vexillor and Verminlord Deceiver - as these happen in the hero phase before the movement phase; and they are set up rules not moves - and so are clearly not retreats on two grounds.

I think that's a bit of stretch. But it might work that way, since neither of them would start any  movement phase within 3" of the enemy. 

I would probably want to see an FAQ ruling on that. Mostly because it feels like an RAW exploit than a legitimate tactic as intended by the game designers. 

[Nicard]

I must say as a Sylvaneth player this thread is a blessing (even if it is a bit hard to sift through all the great discussions).

This may have been clarified earlier, but I had a question regarding Free Spirits / Kurnoth Hunters. In using the Swift Vengeance ability - are units from the detachmant able to Navigate Realmroots during the Hero phase to get within 9" of an enemy model, and then move again during their movement phase to get 4" away? Just wanted to check and see if I am interpreting the rule correctly. Thanks!

[Mirage8112]

I must say as a Sylvaneth player this thread is a blessing (even if it is a bit hard to sift through all the great discussions).

This may have been clarified earlier, but I had a question regarding Free Spirits / Kurnoth Hunters. In using the Swift Vengeance ability - are units from the detachmant able to Navigate Realmroots during the Hero phase to get within 9" of an enemy model, and then move again during their movement phase to get 4" away? Just wanted to check and see if I am interpreting the rule correctly. Thanks!

Hi Nicard, welcome to the most elite club in the world! Sort of...

As far as I am concerned, yes. I've looked into this a fair bit and I can't see any reason why not. There is still a little debate on it, but at this point it's more try to find a reason why it wouldn't since we've already pointed to slot of rule precedents and FAQs that seem to indicate it does work.

Short answer; yes. Go forth and wreck face but be prepared to explain to the unfortunate soul that's on the receiving end what just happened. Because bet your bottom dollar he's going to ask.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Age of The Erstwood]

RE: the question as to whether or not you can use Navigate Realmroots to leave a combat, the fluff description for the Navigate Realmroots ability says; Syvaneth Armies favour a swift, hit-and-run fighting style, using spirit paths to strike and fade before the enemy can react.

I think this in itself is enough to make the purpose clear, at least it was for me. I suppose there could still be some debate around the 'run' of 'hit-and-run' meaning retreat, but even so to run is not necessarily to retreat. That said, as an army that favours a hit-and-run style I would say that you can both leave combat and still shoot/charge afterwards as this seems to be the very nature of a Slyvaneth assault. 

[Age of The Erstwood]

Don't know how far I'll get using fluff to back up my argument though 

[scrubyandwells]

6 minutes ago, Age of The Erstwood said:

Don't know how far I'll get using fluff to back up my argument though 

When you write fluff as well as you do, maybe further than you might think. 

[Age of The Erstwood]

4 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

When you write fluff as well as you do, maybe further than you might think. 

Why, thank you!

[Nixon]

I asked the question on Facebook a while back, and the answer was that at GW they would play it as a retreat, but they would look into it. 

[Sigwarus]

I have just added a new battlereport to my blog covering my ongoing journey at the Fantasia Fanatic tournament. There are some Sylvaneth tactical decisions inside. Please feel free to contribute.

 

[scrubyandwells]

Just skimmed the Clash lists for this weekend. Looks like Mr. Symes is taking another excellent Sylvaneth list.

Clash has a 500pt sideboard, so his list gives him a lot of flexibility with a number of strong components:

• 9 Kurnoth w/ Greatbows @ +1 to hit via Hurricanum (or +2 if he finds his way near Damned terrain)
• 70 Dryads + Sisters of the Thorn for one of our favorite combos + tons of bodies for objective scoring, tarpitting, etc., w/ awesome movement flexibility via Forest Folk + the extra buffs via Winter Leaf
• Hurricanum for excellent mortal-wound output to go w/ its +1 to hit bubble
• The (likely) mortal-wound bomb w/ Branchwraith via The Reaping + Silverwood Circlet + Forest Folk's Fade from View
• Four spellcasters for lots of Roused by Magic opportunities w/ Wyldwoods
• Treelord Ancient for his usual incredible flexibility + command ability

It looks like a solid list and seems to align with a fair amount of our discussion.

Excited to see how Rob does.

[Nico]

Quote

Just skimmed the Clash lists for this weekend. Looks like Mr. Symes is taking another excellent Sylvaneth list.

Clash has a 500pt sideboard, so his list gives him a lot of flexibility with a number of strong components:

• 9 Kurnoth w/ Greatbows @ +1 to hit via Hurricanum (or +2 if he finds his way near Damned terrain)
• 70 Dryads + Sisters of the Thorn for one of our favorite combos + tons of bodies for objective scoring, tarpitting, etc., w/ awesome movement flexibility via Forest Folk + the extra buffs via Winter Leaf
• Hurricanum for excellent mortal-wound output to go w/ its +1 to hit bubble
• The (likely) mortal-wound bomb w/ Branchwraith via The Reaping + Silverwood Circlet + Forest Folk's Fade from View
• Four spellcasters for lots of Roused by Magic opportunities w/ Wyldwoods
• Treelord Ancient for his usual incredible flexibility + command ability

It looks like a solid list and seems to align with a fair amount of our discussion.

Excited to see how Rob does.

He should do well, the shot cap helps him and he's managed to bring the anti-Chaos formation to an event where Chaos are by far the most popular GA (which is quite odd, Order are normally ahead).

He's also brought tough bodies to an event where most people have brought far too many non-scoring monsters. Frankly - if you took a list entirely composed of max size blocks of Blood Warriors and 2 Bloodsecrators (since they still get to attack even if you get the drop on them in melee), then you should win a lot under Clash Comp.