Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[scrubyandwells]

11 hours ago, BloodTithe said:

Anyone want to watch my ramblings on the new sylvaneth points costs ?

https://youtu.be/S0F0D_dhAiY

Cool, look forward to checking this out! 

[Mirage8112]

3 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Today was fab for us overall. Feels good to get some unexpected, big wins. 

Yeah, today really upended the meta. Overall I think we made out quite well. 

[Rimio]

On 8/23/2017 at 1:54 AM, Nico said:

Humour me before a minute, but could 30 Tree Revenants be a thing? They are only 420 (a 180 point reduction) - can do a reliable alpha strike out of a wood into the enemy's front line (can take both Damned and reroll the 1 Mystical beforehand) with a reroll one charge Dice.

You would need to form a long line of them, but with a 6" pile in damage should be decent.

They dent the enemy's front line and then most of them die, but probably hold the enemy for one turn.

Thoughts?

In my games I consider losing 1/6 of my remaining forces a decent turn, so that around 300 points worth of guys. Losing 420 points in a turn, and that's highly likely the unit will be wiped out in that one turn, is still decent, only if they took enough units down with them. SO do you think 30 Tree-revs, can do 600 points worth of damage in one turn to make that sacrifice worth it?  I'm inclined to say no. And that's also not considering the unit might fail the charge, which leave a fragile unit in a bad position just waiting to be wiped out. 

I think the risk is too high on that one.  

[scrubyandwells]

14 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Blacktalon's abilities showed up on reddit, may or may not be true. I figured I'd crunch the numbers anyway as we're all going to be wondering if she'd make a good ally choice.

• Move 6"
• Wounds 5
• Bravery 8
• Save 3+
• Whirlwind Axes 1"/A7/3+/3+/-1/1
• Heavy Boltstorm Pistol 9"/A4/3+/3+/-/1
• Damage of her attacks is raised by 1 if she targets a Hero; can tag along another unit for a free move.
• 120 pts

I have no idea what that movement thing means. PPEW of 8/12/16/24 is pretty bad but pretty typical for a hero. WDR is .0346/.0691 vs non heroes and vs heroes respectively. Not exciting, especially considering she is a foot slogger and enemies can probably keep their heroes away from her. That "free move" thing might make her worthwhile though, tough to say.

Yeah, love the model, the concept, and the rules are pretty cool...just don't think she'll work for us, unless we're running another SCE unit w/ the Ride the Winds Aetheric ability (e.g. Palladors), so that she can hitch a ride on the winds. Otherwise, as you said, she's a foot slogger.

All else equal, the only foot sloggers for us that look especially interesting as potential Allies are the Waywatcher + the Errant-Questor, the latter for reasons discussed earlier + covered on the potential-tree-allies episode on S&W. And then we've got the two 5-wound flyers, Venator and Azyros. 

[Rimio]

13 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

Yeah, love the model, the concept, and the rules are pretty cool...just don't think she'll work for us, unless we're running another SCE unit w/ the Ride the Winds Aetheric ability (e.g. Palladors), so that she can hitch a ride on the winds. Otherwise, as you said, she's a foot slogger.

All else equal, the only foot sloggers for us that look especially interesting as potential Allies are the Waywatcher + the Errant-Questor, the latter for reasons discussed earlier + covered on the potential-tree-allies episode on S&W. And then we've got the two 5-wound flyers, Venator and Azyros. 

I'd also look at the Palladors, Fulminators, and other Stormcast Cavalry with a 3+ save, and mortal wound options. There are moments when you can't use your woods to travel to a spot on the table, either due to good area denial by your opponent, And now that chaff is cheap and plentiful, a unit that can walk across the board fast, might be a requirement. Ive had a couple of games, when I couldn't use the woods to travel, due to either bad luck, or good plays by my opponent. 

[scrubyandwells]

Given the news on Drycha + KH bows, I'm back on the Drycha train for priority-playtesting. 

Here's a few personal checkboxes FWIW for shaping a list. Would love to hear how others shape theirs...what boxes do you have to check off?

1. Gotta love all the models in the list, first and foremost.
2. Has to be elite/low-model count (40-60 models), which could be a challenge for #6 in GH17...remains TBD.
3. Good model variety.
4. Playstyle variety -- has to do a lot of different things, e.g., some magic, shooting, mobility/reach, damage output, etc. (this can be a disadvantage, though,...stretching too thin)
5. Challenging to play -- should have multiple moving parts that need to be used well together.
6. Tournament-viable -- has to be able to scratch top tables, if played well + maybe benefiting from good fortune on matchups (etc.).

In that regard, I'm stuck on the following iteration ATM. I can see a # of shortcomings with it, e.g., it's potentially too dependent on Wyldwoods, which was sometimes an issue in GH16 and could be even more so in GH17, especially vs top players, so I'm wondering if it might be better sacrificing shooting for, say, 2 Fulminators.

Oh, and the 30 pts left over might give decent odds of getting a Triumph.

Ancient
Drycha
Branchwych
Knight-Venator
10 Dryads
10 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
3 KH Scythes
3 KH Greatbows
20 Eternal Guard
Treelord
Household
1970/2000

[scrubyandwells]

1 minute ago, scrubyandwells said:

Ancient
Drycha
Branchwych
Knight-Venator
10 Dryads
10 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
3 KH Scythes
3 KH Greatbows
20 Eternal Guard
Treelord
Household
1970/2000

20 Eternal Guard would usually be sitting on an objective in your own territory, ideally fully in cover within a Wyldwood, zoning out the objective to prevent any enemy models getting within the required range for scoring/contesting. I'm hopeful that # would be sufficient for defending an objective in your own territory, especially in Total Conquest and Battle for Skull Pass with their 20-or-more-model rule. And as needed, the 20 EG could be supported by other pieces in the list.

[Aezeal]

My checklist would be

Main:

- A general with a good command ability (which usually just leaves me the TLA)

- Units should preferably be able to perform multiple roles at least decently and be good or better in one of those roles. (This is why I run dryads instead of tree revenants, but I know that for a lot of people here the revenants would probably tick this box too).

- The army should have a good chance of taking out a few support heroes in turn 1-2 (magic or ranged). You really can't let secrators, khemists etc run wild. It also helps to get units of 20 to 19 for the scenarios).

- Some sort of synergy in the army so you get most out of the abilities you pay for (there actually isn't THAT much of it in our army but it's why I try to make an alarielle list a monster mash and it's one of the things that makes me thing about getting a unit of hunters: either to get the command ability in the backfield if the TLA is offensive or in the front if he's defensive - mostly I think that keeping 300 points back will not be ideal so it's why I'm looking at bow hunters).

Secondary

- Perferably a units of dryads of 20 bodies.. however this is one of the things I'd drop soonest.

- Preferably a lot of magic: I like it and it's why I played mostly gnarlroot, however I'm just not sure it's still worth it. But Alarielle and a TLA with or without Drycha still make for a solid magic phase when I look at the build I'm now thinking of).

[Nico]

One thing that should give Sylvaneth cheer is the culling/elimination of many of the burst damage combos in the game - KO Khemist stacking, Tretch + Warlords stacking, Sayl + X alpha strikes, 

There's only a handful of really strong ones left that spring to mind: Murderhost, Shock Gauntlet Storm Fiends with Packmasters, very expensive Tomb Kings and Warherd, Executioners with the Hurricanum. This means that Sylvaneth's traditional grind, chip away and heal modus operandi should be viable (notwithstanding the nerfs to Hunters). 

[vesco]

3 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Given the news on Drycha + KH bows 

Sorry i read the update about drycha. What about Kurnoth Hunter bow? I didn't ready anything

 

Nevermind you are talking about the change of point, foto a moment i thought they buffed them somewhere

[Nico]

My review of the GHB 2017 is here:

I've focussed on allegiances, FAQ changes and points changes. Battleplans to look at separately.

[Asu]

Hello guys,

It's always a pleasure to follow the discussion here.

I would like to share you this list :

1 Treelord Ancient       300 points
1 Drycha        280 points
1 Branchwych         80 points
1 Waywatcher        100 points
1 Knight-Venator    120 points        
30 Dryads        270 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters    220 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters    220 points
Household         70 points
Gnarloot        180 points

2000 / 2000 if I'm not wrong.

The idea behind this list is to keep something similar to GH16 with some versatility : magic (drycha, branchwych + TLA with gnarloot), shooting (waywatcher + venator + TLA + drycha), some combat threats (such as kurnoth, dryads, TLA + drycha) and objectives scorer (dryads, tree revenants + venator).

I think Drycha will be a must-have with the FAQ.

Gnarloot enable to insure the choice of first turn against a lot of opponents with only 3 drops and give us the key spell to save our Kurnoth or to insure the 20+ Dryads' pack.

The cost of this list was 2180 points in GH16, which is decent.

Finally, my only concern would be the number of wounds and the resilience of such a list, I got around 107 wounds but I don't know if it's enough, even with regrowth and verdurous harmony.

 

Don't hesitate to comment and sorry for the english, it's not my native language.

 

[Aezeal]

5 minutes ago, Asu said:

Hello guys,

It's always a pleasure to follow the discussion here.

I would like to share you this list :

1 Treelord Ancient       300 points
1 Drycha        280 points
1 Branchwych         80 points
1 Waywatcher        100 points
1 Knight-Venator    120 points        
30 Dryads        270 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters    220 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters    220 points
Household         70 points
Gnarloot        180 points

2000 / 2000 if I'm not wrong.

The idea behind this list is to keep something similar to GH16 with some versatility : magic (drycha, branchwych + TLA with gnarloot), shooting (waywatcher + venator + TLA + drycha), some combat threats (such as kurnoth, dryads, TLA + drycha) and objectives scorer (dryads, tree revenants + venator).

I think Drycha will be a must-have with the FAQ.

Gnarloot enable to insure the choice of first turn against a lot of opponents with only 3 drops and give us the key spell to save our Kurnoth or to insure the 20+ Dryads' pack.

The cost of this list was 2180 points in GH16, which is decent.

Finally, my only concern would be the number of wounds and the resilience of such a list, I got around 107 wounds but I don't know if it's enough, even with regrowth and verdurous harmony.

 

Don't hesitate to comment and sorry for the english, it's not my native language.

 

Time (well games) will tell if gnarlroot is worth it, especially with minimal mages to profit from it. For the rest I think it's a solid list with indeed a bit of everything. Whether you take melee or bow hunters will make a difference in play style, with the shooters you have I'd take at least one melee unit.

[scrubyandwells]

1 hour ago, Asu said:

Hello guys,

It's always a pleasure to follow the discussion here.

I would like to share you this list :

1 Treelord Ancient       300 points
1 Drycha        280 points
1 Branchwych         80 points
1 Waywatcher        100 points
1 Knight-Venator    120 points        
30 Dryads        270 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters    220 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters    220 points
Household         70 points
Gnarloot        180 points

2000 / 2000 if I'm not wrong.

Don't hesitate to comment and sorry for the english, it's not my native language.

Yeah that's an intriguing list for the most part. A lot to like about it. 

Agree, I like how it maintains Verdurous for replenishing KH and Dryads/TRevs, + 5 spells + lowers our # of drops significantly relative to Household-only lists.

Just not sure if one big block of 30 Dryads is going to be sufficient for competing well in all the 6 Pitched Battles, but that list would be a perfect one for playtesting to see how things fare.

I ended up going away from the big block of Dryads in recent lists and toward 20 Eternal Guard + 2x10 Dryads + 1x5 Tree-Revenants to have the 20 EG function as the block for defending a home objective and then have the other units for utility + bodies to help score on other objectives. The 20 EG could also go to 30 with some changes and 30 could still likely fit in a Wyldwood due to 25mm base. 

And personally I'd go combat-build for the 2x3 KH -- maybe 1 with swords and 1 with scythes.

Great work, would love to hear how things go with that list.

[scrubyandwells]

3 hours ago, Nico said:

My review of the GHB 2017 is here:

I've focussed on allegiances, FAQ changes and points changes. Battleplans to look at separately.

Awesome write up! 

[Aezeal]

11 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

Awesome write up! 

yes a good summary. I do think wanderers are a real winner now: I've been fine tuning the tactic they almost force upon us and it seems to have potential (my ideas are in the wanderer topic. If any of the tactics buffs in here also have some wanderers lying around I'd be interested in your views in there btw.)

[Asu]

Thanks for the answers guys.

I will try to test this asap. 

Concerning the Kurnoth, both units will be equiped with scythes to provide great combat damage to aim big threats :

1 Treelord Ancient       300 points
1 Drycha        280 points
1 Branchwych         80 points
1 Waywatcher        100 points
1 Knight-Venator    120 points        
30 Dryads        270 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
5 Tree Revenants     80 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters, scythes    220 points
3 Kurnoth Hunters, scythes    220 points
Household         70 points
Gnarloot        180 points

1 hour ago, scrubyandwells said:

I ended up going away from the big block of Dryads in recent lists and toward 20 Eternal Guard + 2x10 Dryads + 1x5 Tree-Revenants to have the 20 EG function as the block for defending a home objective and then have the other units for utility + bodies to help score on other objectives. The 20 EG could also go to 30 with some changes and 30 could still likely fit in a Wyldwood due to 25mm base. 

Interesting points there, it could be true that having multiple bodies in multiple units would be essential for the new battle plans. Only tests will answer, but your solution (i.e. mix dryads and EG) may be the good one.

[DantePQ]

I do love Eternal Guards, but don't have painted models. I tested out my Dreadwood army :

Alarielle with Regrowth 

Branchwych with Acorn, Verdant Blessing

4x5 Spites 

30 Dryads 

6 Scythes Kurtnohts 

 

worked really well I won with SCE (some very fast, Vanguard army) but this army has great mobility,  Dryads weren't as good but with 70 points left I don't have anything better to invest points into.

I will test this army out 

Treelord Ancient + Oaken Armour + Gnarled Warrior + Regrowth

Drycha + Squirmlings + Dwellers

Branchwych + Ranu's + Verdant's Belssing

2x5 Tree-Revs

20 Dryads 

6 Kurnohts Scythes 

2x3 Bows Kurntohs 

Household. 

 

I've got 1 drop, great magic, supreme antihorde utility in Drycha with Dwellers, Dryads to tank objectives. I like that it check a lot of boxes and has great flexibility. Also household has nice ability, and if I don't need one drop I can cut Branchwych, Household and get extra 2000 for 20 EG or something else. 

[Paul G]

Need a regular tree lord in Household man!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DantePQ]

Oouch I forgot about his so maybe something like this 

Treelord Ancient + Oaken Armour + Gnarled Warrior + Regrowth

Drycha + Squirmlings + Dwellers

Branchwych + Ranu's + Verdant's Belssing

2x5 Tree-Revs

20 Dryads 

3 Kurnohts Scythes 

Treelord 

2x3 Bows Kurntohs 

Household. 

 

Looks fine I guess  

 

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I do love Eternal Guards, but don't have painted models. I tested out my Dreadwood army :

Alarielle with Regrowth 

Branchwych with Acorn, Verdant Blessing

4x5 Spites 

30 Dryads 

6 Scythes Kurtnohts 

 

worked really well I won with SCE (some very fast, Vanguard army) but this army has great mobility,  Dryads weren't as good but with 70 points left I don't have anything better to invest points into.

I will test this army out 

Treelord Ancient + Oaken Armour + Gnarled Warrior + Regrowth

Drycha + Squirmlings + Dwellers

Branchwych + Ranu's + Verdant's Belssing

2x5 Tree-Revs

20 Dryads 

6 Kurnohts Scythes 

2x3 Bows Kurntohs 

Household. 

 

I've got 1 drop, great magic, supreme antihorde utility in Drycha with Dwellers, Dryads to tank objectives. I like that it check a lot of boxes and has great flexibility. Also household has nice ability, and if I don't need one drop I can cut Branchwych, Household and get extra 2000 for 20 EG or something else. 

I just don't get that last one with only household is one drop. Not to mention you can't take a household with a TLA

Ow you changed it again.. didn't see it was a seperate post (when scrolling up) anyway I still don't see how it's one drop.

[Nico]

Taking a look at Guardians of Alarielle - it's cheaper than many other big Battalions and has a lot of economical units in it e.g. Dryads. 

The buffs are concrete (whereas taking Household on its own is pretty meh). It gives you Bravery 10 and all the Stormcast are trolling with +1 save (assuming in a bunker). Could be worth a look.

TLA 300

Branchwraith 80

Treelord 240

Castellant 100

 

(720)

 

30 Dryads 270

Dryads 100

Liberators 100

Liberators 100

10 Judicators 320

 

(890)

 

Guardians of Alarielle 220

 

1830

 

This takes a big unit of Judicators for pew pew and leaves 170 for something else.

[scrubyandwells]

4 hours ago, Nico said:

Taking a look at Guardians of Alarielle - it's cheaper than many other big Battalions and has a lot of economical units in it e.g. Dryads. 

Seems like the issue will be the default one w/ that battalion: lack of damage output. And it may be a little worse now, since the battalion went up in price, although not dramatically as you said. 

[Heksagon]

1 hour ago, scrubyandwells said:

Seems like the issue will be the default one w/ that battalion: lack of damage output. And it may be a little worse now, since the battalion went up in price, although not dramatically as you said. 

Well, I would fit some other SCE in this list. As Allies. 10 Protectors? Prime? Or maybe LCOD? 

[BloodTithe]

I think I explained the ground shaking stomp update from the faq pretty well in this video if anyone is interested:

and did a first impressions of the GH2017 here:

 

 

Has anyone given the new battalions and wargroves some in depth thought? I'd love to hear some opinions.... I kinda concluded they aren't massively viable in a vanguard list but what did you guys think for 2000 pt lists?