Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Nico]

Thanks Adam! A Tournament Report that's truly hot off the press!

[Tommm]

Great work Adam! I was following the rounds on Twitter and saw you climbing up the standings. Brave of you to not have the Ancient as your general.

[HadrielCaine]

Thank so @Tommm it was fun! People certainly weren't expecting it. It was good for the scenarios but was a bit of a gamble. Luckily every time I rolled 3 or less for realm walker I then rolled 11 or 12 to charge  dice tend to even out don't they! 

I'm not going to SCGT unfortunately so a slightly less perfect list was fine for a social tournament  was amazed- 4 games on table 1 or 2 and didn't go lower than 7  

I'm now looking into Winter root war grove with a Glade Lord on Forest dragon... Seems extra fun. Any thoughts on a good build for that would be a cool discussion!

[Nico]

Yep - the Forest Dragon rocks (as you taught me 1.5 years ago at London's Calling 2017). Surround with Kurnoth Hunters. Go easy on the magic though or he will get zapped by the Wyldwoods.

[HadrielCaine]

I'm having a look at the Artefact rules.

Quote

If a SYLVANETH army includes any HEROES, then one may bear an artefact of power.

and the WINTERLEAF WARGROVE rules

Quote

0-1 ORDER unit

Seems to me that I could give SYLVANETH battletome artefacts to, for example, a Glade Lord on Forest Dragon. He couldn't take a command trait presumably but the allegience remains SYLVANETH due to the Wargrove and the requirment for artefact usage is just the KEYWORD: HERO

Am I (arguably) right? I'd LOVE a Glade Lord on Forest Dragon with either Oaken Armour or Seed of Rebirth.

This is about as far as I've got with models I own and not much thought. 80 points spare...

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Branchwraith (100)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior - Sylvaneth
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri 
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Glade Lord on Forest Dragon (340)

Battleline
10 x Dryads (120)
10 x Dryads (120)
10 x Dryads (120)
10 x Dryads (120)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180)
- Greatbows

Battalions
Forest Folk (60)
Winterleaf Wargrove (100)

Scenery
Sylvaneth Wyldwood - Sylvaneth Allegiance (0)

Total: 1920/2000
 

Thoughts on the back of a postcard?

 

A.

[Shorewood]

Why not group two of the dryad units into a group of 20.  You only need 3 battline and it would give them their armor bonus and make them easier to buff.  

[HadrielCaine]

I think you need the fourth as separate in order to use Forest Folk as part of Winterleaf. Otherwise I'd just run three and have 200 points to play with!

[Shorewood]

you are correct sir

[scrubyandwells]

1 hour ago, HadrielCaine said:

I'm having a look at the Artefact rules.

and the WINTERLEAF WARGROVE rules

Seems to me that I could give SYLVANETH battletome artefacts to, for example, a Glade Lord on Forest Dragon. He couldn't take a command trait presumably but the allegience remains SYLVANETH due to the Wargrove and the requirment for artefact usage is just the KEYWORD: HERO

Am I (arguably) right? I'd LOVE a Glade Lord on Forest Dragon with either Oaken Armour or Seed of Rebirth.

Hey mate, we received clarity on this Q previously: units like the Glade Lord on Forest Dragon do need the SYLVANETH keyword on their own warscroll in order to have access to SYLVANETH artefacts of power.

In the example you gave, it's true you can take a Winterleaf Wargrove with 1 ORDER unit and still have a SYLVANETH allegiance army, but the 1 ORDER unit doesn't gain access to any artefacts of power, since they're not a SYLVANETH HERO and the army is SYLVANETH allegiance, which prevents them from accessing ORDER allegiance artefacts.

I think GW did this as a tradeoff for gaining access to non-Sylvaneth units via Wargrove battalions, which seems reasonable.

The exception is Gnarlroot Wargrove and Ironbark Wargrove:

• In Gnarlroot Wargrove, each Gnarlroot WIZARD gains access to the Verdurous Harmony spell, so e.g. if you took a Loremaster as your 0-1 ORDER WIZARD in Gnarlroot, the Loremaster would gain access to Verdurous Harmony, but he wouldn't have access to Deepwood Lore spells, because he isn't a SYLVANETH HERO.
• In Ironbark Wargrove, 1 Ironbark HERO can take the Ironbark Talisman artefact of power, so e.g. if you took a DUARDIN HERO as one of your 0-2 DUARDIN, you could give that DUARDIN HERO the Ironbark Talisman, whereas normally they wouldn't have access to any artefacts in a SYLVANETH allegiance army.

I'm hoping they clarify this issue in the next General's Handbook, since it's a little convoluted and non-obvious at the moment.

[HadrielCaine]

Thanks @scrubyandwells I thought that might be the case. Looks like I need to read all 64 pages of this thread in more detail!

I've been using verduous harmony on my sisters of the thorn with gnarlroot so I'm glad that's legal. 

Shame you can't use the deepwood lore in mixed order even on SYLVANETH wizards... 

 

[Ian R]

Sorry if this is higher in the thread!  In my Gnarlroot Wargrove-

1.  I know I can deploy the whole battalion at one time, in that single drop can some units be on the table and some be in the hidden enclaves?

2.  Is the Order wizard, in my case Loremaster, impacted by Roused by Magic if within 1" of a wood and that model, or any other, casts a spell in 6" of the wood?

[Nico]

Quote

I'm hoping they clarify this issue in the next General's Handbook, since it's a little convoluted and non-obvious at the moment.

Yep. I agree. The Artefacts clarify the position right in the centre of the page in very small text "Any Sylvaneth Hero" can be given a magical artefact.

The only one I had lingering doubts over was the Command Trait (which simply says "general of a Sylvaneth army"). Was this clarified? Thoughts?

Forest Spirits

Another interesting one, which seems to work, is using the Forest Spirits Battle Trait to deploy an entire Battalion all at once in the movement phase. The wording repeatedly says unit or battalion. Of course, a Sylvaneth Battalion could include an Order Unit, two Duardin Units or even a bunch of Stormcast Eternals. Being able to deploy these chaps within 3" of a Wyldwood and 9" from the enemy would be a useful tool (counterbalanced by the 9" rule, so happy charging; and the fact that the entire Battalion has to be deployed at the same time; and after the hero phase - so no magic etc.). This kind of deployment doesn't seem implausible fluffwise- the Sylvaneth could hide some allies in their homes; and there's no keyword dependence.

Thoughts on this one? 

[Nico]

Quote

Sorry if this is higher in the thread!  In my Gnarlroot Wargrove-

1.  I know I can deploy the whole battalion at one time, in that single drop can some units be on the table and some be in the hidden enclaves?

2.  Is the Order wizard, in my case Loremaster, impacted by Roused by Magic if within 1" of a wood and that model, or any other, casts a spell in 6" of the wood?

Probably needs an index . The search function on TGA is pretty good.

1. Yes.
2. Yes. Stand >3" away ideally as the range of the Treelord Ancient's spell is even longer.

[Nico]

I've been struggling to write new lists for Sylvaneth for the last month or so.

While I stlll think that the Alarielle Dreadwood list would be strong in a lot of match ups I have visions of it wading into Pink Horrors, getting swamped by Blues and Brimstones that pop up at the end of the Combat Phase and then zapped to bits by the Wizards behind the chaff line. 

Here's one for which I would welcome some feedback - it's a Dreadwood list but one that's intended to grind rather than alpha strike:

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below
Branchwraith (100)
- General
- Artefact: Briarsheath 
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (100)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (100)
5 x Tree-Revenants (100)
20 x Dryads (240)

Units
5 x Spite-Revenants (100)
5 x Spite-Revenants (100)
5 x Spite-Revenants (100)
5 x Spite-Revenants (100)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180)
- Scythes

Battalions
Dreadwood Wargrove (100)
Outcasts (40)

Total: 2000/2000

The general is going to solve the Age of Sniping problem by staying off the table for some time in the Hidden Enclaves. This doesn't cost too much (100 points plus the loss of Inspiring Presence).

If the Dreadwood only gets one ability, then I'm likely to use the one that limits the enemy abilities from reaching more than 12" and then give them turn one with a view to the double turn, or failing that try to do some pew pew with the Bows; and Battleshocking with the Spite Revenants; while I put out some more Wyldwoods in the middle/on the objectives and set up a defensive line of Dryads with Spites behind them.

If I get two abilities, then I have the option of throwing in Drycha who will do her aoe spam mortal wounds vs a bunker and then charge in . She has Dwellers Below to do some damage to blocks of 40 Arrer Boyz, but it's not enough. I could also throw in the Scythes instead if the bows would be able to shoot the chaff out of the way.

If I get the move 3 units ability as well, then Drycha could move forward 9", then another 9 before shooting, which might be enough to hit a lot with her 18" bubble pew pew.

I'd probably toss in one or two units of Spite Revenants - ideally they charge into chaff (so they don't die themselves), but get themselves close enough to give the Bravery Debuffs to the important units behind them.

Other than neutering most gunlines for Battleround one, I'm pondering how much better this would be than Winterleaf. I also feel decidedly naked with only 3 Scythe Hunters.

 

  

 

 

[Aezeal]

This list seems so... fragile with all the revenants.. that is like 600 points with only 30 wounds and hardly any saves. I mean sure monsters and characters have less wounds for those points but usually they have better saves and other stuff going for them. For infantry it still seems... subpar.

And 2 wraiths with lousy combat abilities and a more useless spell. Will Drycah do enough damage in her 1, maybe 2 turns?  (without regrowth it won't be more).

[Nico]

Quote

This list seems so... fragile with all the revenants.. that is like 600 points with only 30 wounds and hardly any saves. I mean sure monsters and characters have less wounds for those points but usually they have better saves and other stuff going for them. For infantry it still seems... subpar.

That's the big concern for sure. Unlike in an alpha strike Dreadwood list, the Spites will at least be chilling in the Wyldwoods for most of the game, so on a 4+. 

The Tree Revenants can stay out of harm's way at the back/corner until they spot a weakness.

[xanderhansen]

Hey there
I got a question for you guys or girls. If I have a SOD and a loremaster in my gnarlroot, can SOD then use his solemn guardian on my loremaster?



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[xanders]

5 hours ago, Nico said:

Probably needs an index . The search function on TGA is pretty good.

1. Yes.
2. Yes. Stand >3" away ideally as the range of the Treelord Ancient's spell is even longer.

the secound one is not true, while it says enemy units are hit with the spell. so just stay one inch away from the woods

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, xanders said:

the secound one is not true, while it says enemy units are hit with the spell. so just stay one inch away from the woods

He's referring to the wyldwood ability that attacks all units that do not have the SYLVANETH keyword within 3" of the wood (on a roll of 5+). The Treelord Ancients spell only targets enemies, but it has a chance to make the wyldwoods go crazy and start chewing on anything not sylvaneth (including sisters).

[Nico]

He's right - I had forgotten that Awakening is specific to Enemy units - it's fun in a Stick-off - Sylvaneth vs Sylvaneth!

[Mirage8112]

6 hours ago, Aezeal said:

This list seems so... fragile with all the revenants.. that is like 600 points with only 30 wounds and hardly any saves. I mean sure monsters and characters have less wounds for those points but usually they have better saves and other stuff going for them. For infantry it still seems... subpar.

5 hours ago, Nico said:

That's the big concern for sure. Unlike in an alpha strike Dreadwood list, the Spites will at least be chilling in the Wyldwoods for most of the game, so on a 4+. 

The Tree Revenants can stay out of harm's way at the back/corner until they spot a weakness.

Actually it's not as big a concern as you think. String one of the units of spites out 5 wide to absorb any oncoming attacks and at the most, you'll lose that 1 unit. The attacking unit will likely get shredded by the woods on the charge, and you'll be in a good position to activate the outcast battalion ability to do 2d6- (-1)bravery in mortal wounds in the upcoming hero phase.  You only need 2 units to survive in order to activate the ability and since it's basically an MSU list there's plenty of "crumple zone" (especially if you bring a unit of revenants in to help screen). Then you can counter charge with Drycha. 

If they refuse to go into the woods, then the hunters can pelt them with arrows from afar while the Scythe hunters can move up to force them to make a decision or risk getting charged by the Scythes. 

 

6 hours ago, Aezeal said:

And 2 wraiths with lousy combat abilities and a more useless spell. Will Drycah do enough damage in her 1, maybe 2 turns?  (without regrowth it won't be more).

Wraiths actually aren't a bad choice here, (although I'd be more inclined to take a wraith and a wytch). The wraiths spell is inconsequential, since they'll likely be using the deep wood lore and between briarsheath and blessings of the forest, a wraith has a natural -2 to hit in all phases near a wood. That will add a lot of survivability.

 

6 hours ago, Nico said:

If the Dreadwood only gets one ability, then I'm likely to use the one that limits the enemy abilities from reaching more than 12" and then give them turn one with a view to the double turn, or failing that try to do some pew pew with the Bows; and Battleshocking with the Spite Revenants; while I put out some more Wyldwoods in the middle/on the objectives and set up a defensive line of Dryads with Spites behind them.

If I get two abilities, then I have the option of throwing in Drycha who will do her aoe spam mortal wounds vs a bunker and then charge in . She has Dwellers Below to do some damage to blocks of 40 Arrer Boyz, but it's not enough. I could also throw in the Scythes instead if the bows would be able to shoot the chaff out of the way.

Remember that 12" is only for the first round, and will only be helpful if your enemy is a gunline army AND outside the max distance (+move). Kunnin rukk has a threat range of about 17+d6 inches. So keep that in mind when you drop your wyldwood. (since you drop before choosing sides).

I might be inclined to use ambush and put Drycha in their face round 1. Especially if it's a gunline. Free move is a bit problematic since it happens before the the game technically starts and you can't drop enclave units till your first movement phase. 

It might also be kind of funny to use ambush to drop 20 dryads onto the objective, then use sneak attack to bring Drycha up to support, then give them the first turn. Thats a hard choice with dryads sitting in a wood with Drycha ready for a counter charge... 

[Mirage8112]

6 minutes ago, Nico said:

He's right - I had forgotten that Awakening is specific to Enemy units - it's fun in a Stick-off - Sylvaneth vs Sylvaneth!

He asked about 'roused by magic' not 'awakening of the wood'. Awakening is the tLA spell and only effect enemy units, but roused by magic is the Wyldwood spell that targets anything not sylvaneth. 

[xanderhansen]

And the wildwood ability roused by magic only hits units 1 inch away from the woods [emoji4] therefore, if you have a loremaster or other non sylvaneth units, you can safely stand one inch away from any wood and not get hit [emoji6]

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[Mirage8112]

1 minute ago, xanderhansen said:

And the wildwood ability roused by magic only hits units 1 inch away from the woods

good catch. Awaking is 3" but roused by magic is only 1". it pays to pay attention sometimes! 

[Aezeal]

Suddenly my regular 1500 game this thursday is changed to a 1 vs`1 vs1 with 1K points each... no real free time to think about it so any suggestions (I only have 5 reventants and 3 hunters.. I think I have most other stuff.)