Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Nico]

I don't rate Durthu as highly as I used to.

I'm not a fan of running Dryads on 10s.

Tou should do ok - solid Battalion.

[Aezeal]

21 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

 

It's totally worth the point cost. That spell alone can shut down an entire enemy combat phase by itself.

Imagine you've gone to the trouble to set up a dryad bunker with your TLA in a standard configuration in a wildwood. It's the bottom of the second turn, and your opponent has 2-3 units of something hard hitting, either a super buffed unit of reaver with 4-5 attacks apiece from double bloodsecrators and a totem buff, or some other such "deathstar' nonsense. If you facing say a big unit of ironguts at 3 damage and +1 hit, it only takes 2-3 hits to get through to take out half of your dryad bunker from a combination of wounds/battleshock.

In a normal situation with that much firepower even -2 to hit from dryads and stomp can still severely hurt if the attack volume/damage is high enough. Add to that, the fact that your opponent will get to activate first and has the possibility of getting a double turn, it's very likely Durthu will not survive long enough to put out much damage, and if he does survive, his damage output will be greatly reduced. 

Now, in the same scenario, imagine you've managed to get shield of thorns off in your previous turn. It casts on a 5+ since the sisters unit is 10 strong, so it's as reliable as casting mystic shield. This means your dryad bunker is now sporting a 3+ re-rollable save (maybe even  2+ if you're TLA puts shield on them), that does mortal wounds back on a roll of 4+ (3+ if mystic shield is in play). This also stacks with the TLA's command ability. So Dryads with a 2+ rerollable save, that first reroll 1's, then reroll all failed saves any of which put out a mortal wound on a save of 3+. That reaver unit will positively shred itself to pieces, and it's very unlikely the irongut unit will do more than a wound with so many rerollable saves. Plus, if your opponent rolls well and gets the double turn, shield of thorns remains in play until your hero phase. So you've just shut down 2 potentially disastrous CC confrontations with 1 spell that casts on a 5+. (Not to mention they are move 12", bravery 9 in cover and put out 20 -1 rend shots 9" away making them excellent harassment units if your opponent is tied up in combat.)

Durthu can't do that. 

And as Nico has pointed out, your opponent can choose "not to attack the unit." That's not a bad thing. That's an amazing thing. Imagine there was a spell whose text read as follows. "Choose a friendly unit. On a 5+ enemy units cannot target that unit for CC attacks until your next hero phase." You know damn well we'd all take that spell in a heartbeat. Plus, unlike Durthu, this spell is as effective late game as early game; with 20 wounds AND the ability to bring back dead models through the Gnarlroot spell, this unit is sure to be around in turns 3-5 provided you aren't sloppy with your positioning.  

Well I won't say I'm a great player, hell I don't even play a lot. But while all you say is true I still don't think it's worth 400 points. The spell would be AWESOME and more on a 100 point caster, sure. But it's a unit I think I'd prefer not to have in combat due to their 5+ AS. That means shooting damage has to be exceptional to be worth it and I'm not convinced 20 4+/4+/-1/1 attacks on 9 inch for 5 turns (And really the chances of them NOT shooting anything first turn is pretty real since then they'd be ahead of the rest of the army and easily within reliable move+charge range of nearly anything.  

[Mirage8112]

5 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

The spell would be AWESOME and more on a 100 point caster, sure.

Yeah it would. I'm fairly convinced that it's the best utility spell in the game. I still think it's a steal even at the current points value. 

 

8 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

But it's a unit I think I'd prefer not to have in combat due to their 5+ AS. That means shooting damage has to be exceptional to be worth it and I'm not convinced 20 4+/4+/-1/1 attacks on 9 inch for 5 turns (And really the chances of them NOT shooting anything first turn is pretty real since then they'd be ahead of the rest of the army and easily within reliable move+charge range of nearly anything.  

You wouldn't never put them in combat unless you had no other option, and shooting is just a bonus. Their real value is in their casting abilities (the +1 to cast applies to all spells, meaning 4+ for Mystic shield, and 5+ for arcane bolt. They even get the +1 to cast verdurous harmony from the gnarlroot battalion, which makes them the most reliable chance we have to cast that particular spell). I absolutely understand balking at the price. Truthfully, if I didn't already have 10 from my WHFB days, I probably wouldn't be all that invested in putting 10 together and trying it out for myself. But I've had several very close phases decisively won by having them on hand. They are ace in units of 10. 

Unit's like this are not reliable damage dealers. They are "force multipliers". They reliably turn your opponents killy units against him while simultaneously making your units more survivable. Looking at "how many points" this unit can take off the table per round is the wrong way to look at it. 

[Aezeal]

43 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

Yeah it would. I'm fairly convinced that it's the best utility spell in the game. I still think it's a steal even at the current points value. 

 

You wouldn't never put them in combat unless you had no other option, and shooting is just a bonus. Their real value is in their casting abilities (the +1 to cast applies to all spells, meaning 4+ for Mystic shield, and 5+ for arcane bolt. They even get the +1 to cast verdurous harmony from the gnarlroot battalion, which makes them the most reliable chance we have to cast that particular spell). I absolutely understand balking at the price. Truthfully, if I didn't already have 10 from my WHFB days, I probably wouldn't be all that invested in putting 10 together and trying it out for myself. But I've had several very close phases decisively won by having them on hand. They are ace in units of 10. 

Unit's like this are not reliable damage dealers. They are "force multipliers". They reliably turn your opponents killy units against him while simultaneously making your units more survivable. Looking at "how many points" this unit can take off the table per round is the wrong way to look at it. 

Yes I completely understand they are force multipliers. Which is why the points are important. In a 1500 points game instead of a regular buffer increasing the power of 1400 points... they boost better... but only 1100 points to buff/multiply. Not to mention it doesn't directly increases damage output. I mean I can see the value of a hurricane next to hunters (or really anything) much easier. 
If I had them I might have tried them in 5 or 10, but I guess I'll have to take your word for it (well I really don't take your word for it I'll have to admit.. but I guess that was clear). I do want to state again I've not played them so others reading this know its basicly just my opinion which isn't worth that much beyond what common sense / maths seems to imply (which in these games often is right but can be very wrong too).

[xanderhansen]

Hey boys and girls
I have a question regarding or wyldwood groves ability. I'm not sure when exactly I can set it up. It starts that;
Before the battle begins and players choose territory or set up their armies, you can place one sylvaneth wyldwood.

As I read it i can wait with the setup until each player has chosen their territory. Is that right?

Why I believe it is so, is because of the 'or' in the sentence.

I hope you can help me out here [emoji4]

Sendt fra min SM-G935F med Tapatalk

[Nico]

You set up the Wyldwood before the players choose sides.

[DantePQ]

I'd rather have Teclis then Sisters, especially in Gnarlroot. His spell is amazing and his spellcasting is epic + he can unbid spells pretty well. Ability to almost immobilize one unit is huge for Sylvaneth. 

[scrubyandwells]

8 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I'd rather have Teclis then Sisters, especially in Gnarlroot. His spell is amazing and his spellcasting is epic + he can unbid spells pretty well. Ability to almost immobilize one unit is huge for Sylvaneth. 

Yeah he's such outstanding value at 200pts. And the model is still pretty sweet! 

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Yeah he's such outstanding value at 200pts. And the model is still pretty sweet! 

I'm actually playing a 1500 gnarlroot list with 2x wych and a unit of treekin. I'm not happy with the 2nd wych really though I like the acorn (sure wood in my deployment zone) I'm contemplating getting a loremaster (keep treekin), starseer or hurricanum (which probably doesn't fit unless I remove Drycha).

[DantePQ]

I don't know how he fares in 1500 pts battle, but I would give Teclis a try if I were you. He is almost auto mystic shield and if you want to play it safe - his double range ability though not so reliable is huge as he would be usually be out of any danger and out of ability to unbind his spells. Also his spell has casting value of 5 so it's pretty easy to make double range. I'm thinking in taking him in 1500 :

Gnarlroot+Household, Teclis, Treeman Ancient,Branchwych,20 Dryads,2x5 Revenants,2x3 Kurnoth Hunter with bows. I think it is quite well rounded. 

[Aezeal]

Yeah I really REALLY love Drycha so I'll keep her instead of 5 revenants and some hunters (I really want more hunters and 20 dryads too). If I ever get my hands on a cheap starseer I'd try the vortex list I posted above.. sadly it's not easy to fit it in 1500 points.

[Jorthax]

Hey guys, so I'm going to try the alpha striking 9 scythe hunter + Alarielle list in the next internal Swiss tournament we are having between 5 friends and I, after Sylvaneth reigned supreme last time with Gnarlroot I felt like giving others a chance

I was wondering if some of the more skillful players who've fielded this could give a bit of a setup/turn 1 breakdown step by step if they had the time? I would much appreciate it.

Please help me keep our group chat named Sylvaneth Wyldwoods. It was The Realm of Shyish before due to a Death player winning our first tournament. 

[Aezeal]

I must say I keep loosing with my gnarlroot. Mostly against the same player with high elves or chaos. I roll terrible, last game was the first wheRe my tla actually did damage. Not sure that list is giving them a better chance.

[SpiritofHokuto]

9 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I don't know how he fares in 1500 pts battle, but I would give Teclis a try if I were you. He is almost auto mystic shield and if you want to play it safe - his double range ability though not so reliable is huge as he would be usually be out of any danger and out of ability to unbind his spells. Also his spell has casting value of 5 so it's pretty easy to make double range. I'm thinking in taking him in 1500 :

Gnarlroot+Household, Teclis, Treeman Ancient,Branchwych,20 Dryads,2x5 Revenants,2x3 Kurnoth Hunter with bows. I think it is quite well rounded. 

That does look like a pretty nice 1500 point list. I'm a bit stuck as to how to round it out for 2000 points. Whatever I put in seems to leave at least 40 or so points spare?

[DantePQ]

I added Drycha(but I am not sold on her),  and third unit of Kurnoth Hunter and it's 1960, also you can swap one unit TreeRevs for Dryads to make it 1980.

[ItalianDracula]

16 hours ago, Jorthax said:

Hey guys, so I'm going to try the alpha striking 9 scythe hunter + Alarielle list in the next internal Swiss tournament we are having between 5 friends and I, after Sylvaneth reigned supreme last time with Gnarlroot I felt like giving others a chance

I was wondering if some of the more skillful players who've fielded this could give a bit of a setup/turn 1 breakdown step by step if they had the time? I would much appreciate it.

Please help me keep our group chat named Sylvaneth Wyldwoods. It was The Realm of Shyish before due to a Death player winning our first tournament. 

Hi you mean the NEW alarielle or the Old Highborn Alarielle?

 

 

[Tommm]

Its always new Alarielle.

[Aezeal]

22 hours ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

That does look like a pretty nice 1500 point list. I'm a bit stuck as to how to round it out for 2000 points. Whatever I put in seems to leave at least 40 or so points spare?

40 points spare means more Dryads and less revenants in my book.

[Mirage8112]

On 3/8/2017 at 6:20 AM, Jorthax said:

Hey guys, so I'm going to try the alpha striking 9 scythe hunter + Alarielle list in the next internal Swiss tournament we are having between 5 friends and I, after Sylvaneth reigned supreme last time with Gnarlroot I felt like giving others a chance

I was wondering if some of the more skillful players who've fielded this could give a bit of a setup/turn 1 breakdown step by step if they had the time? I would much appreciate it.

Please help me keep our group chat named Sylvaneth Wyldwoods. It was The Realm of Shyish before due to a Death player winning our first tournament. 

@Jorthax Nice! Good luck to you. Since I've done a lot of work putting this list and the accompanying sequence together, here's a run down and some thoughts to get you started:

Assuming you roll at least 2 stratagems before setup (about a 70% chance), you're looking for ambush and sneak attack. If you only get one ambush will do just fine, but it's likely Alarielle won't be in combat till round 2. Thats not too much of a problem, as she should be able to offer ranged and spell support even if she's not directly smashing heads in CC. 

For setup you're obviously trying for first turn, so it's pretty likely you'll be running single drop. Since you'll likely be deploying all of your army before your opponent has placed more than 1 unit, you should probably plan to drop your free wyldwood somewhere near an objective that will net you some points. This build doesn't rely heavily on wyldwoods, but the placement of that first wood is important because it will be used mostly to deny your opponent the ability to easily score. More on that later. 

For deployment, the Spite Rev x4 will all go in the hidden enclaves, Alarielle somewhere just left or right of center, and the T-rev's will go on the table (anywhere). It really doesn't matter where the hunters go once the game has started, but you might be able to force your opponent to split his army if he's expecting the hunters to be in a specific place. You could put them to the side, feigning like your coming up the flank hoping that he puts the majority of his counters there and leaves his other flank unguarded. Or, you could put them in the enclaves and let him just set up thinking they might come in around your forest via deepstrike. In this situation see how your opponent reacts to your drops. 

If you're sporting a single drop you should get first turn. You can now redeploy your hunters anywhere on the board more than 6" from the enemy, positioning for a 1st turn charge. The idea here is to use the hunters as a first strike "wedge" to create a hole in your opponents line and to split his force into 2 pieces. If you rolled 2 stratagems, you can also move Alarielle 16" up to center of the board. Since she was deployed off center, she should end her move somewhere to the left or right of the hunters (preferably on the weaker of the two sides). She has a 16" movement so if you need to cross the board you should have plenty of room to maneuver, still be in range for spells and able to charge with her in the first charge phase. 

First hero phase:

Alarielle can cast 3 spells per turn. You will definitely want to cast shield on the hunters, since they will definitely be taking hits back when your turn ends. Your next two spells are up to you. You should also pop Alarielle's once per game command ability allowing hunter to re-roll wounds. 

First movement phase:

You can now bring the outcasts onto the board into wherever you put your forest. Ideally this out be a "diamond" deployment with your 4 units forming a diamond with the tip pointed at wherever the enemy is coming from. (the idea here is that the outcast battalion needs 2 units of spites in range during your hero phase to trigger the ability. putting 1 unit in from of the other three means if you happen to get charged in the bottom of the first turn, the most that could happen is you'd lose 1 unit of spites.  

The hunters should move within 3" of whatever they intend to destroy. With re-rolls from Alarielle's command ability you expect the unit to put out around 30 damage at -2 rend (with average rolls) so plan to spread the charge out between 2-3 moderately armored units or 1-2 big ugly monsters. Ideally, it's better to severely wound 2-3 units than completely destroy 1-2 (the reasoning here is that those units will likely flee from battleshock anyway, so rather than wasting a battleshock phase it's better to spread the damage out a bit).

Alarielle should also move up to position for a charge. Again she should be somewhere between the hunters and the left/right flank. 

You can also teleport your T-revs from whatever position they are in to somewhere more useful. This will depend on the battleplan and what/where the objectives are.  Ideally you would have 2 units of 5 sitting near an objective and 1 unit of 5 out in front of your spites (about 7" away strung in a horizontal line to soak any incoming charges.) That way if you get a surprise charge (or a double turn) you'll lose the T-revs, but the spites will be in range for their battalion ability to go off (2d6 - bravery in mortal wounds). 

Shooting:

Do that pew-pew with Alarielle. 

Charging/Combat:

For your first combat phase you'll charge Alarielle first, ideally against an enemy next to a terrain feature since her wardroth beetle will do mortal wounds to anything within 1". You want to charge her first in case the hunters target brings them too close to terrain; you don't want to damage your own units if you can help it. Next the hunters charge their target(s).

Activate your hunters first and resolve combat. You want them to go first to ensure maximum carnage. Don't forget to re-roll your wounds and resolve your stomps at the end of combat. 

Next activate Alarielle and resolve combat. 

Aftermath:

Ideally after battleshock is resolved, you'll be in a good position for your opponents first turn. Your hunters should be sitting smack in his front lines, essentially preventing anything from one side getting to the other without going through the hunters first. This is more to prevent Alarielle from getting overwhelmed than anything else, since she won't be able to heal anything until your next hero phase (which could be a while if you're opponent gets a double turn). But your hunters will still be shielded (and you can now root) for a 3+ rerollable save. They will also continue to re-roll wounds until your next hero phase so anything trying to get through them without mortal wounds will have a very bad time. 

A note about battle plans:

This list is very hero light. So for battelplans like 3 places of power that require you capture objectives with heroes, you'll have to be creative. In this case, put your free forest over one of the side objectives, and plan to have Alarielle take the middle behind the hunters. Since she won't be in combat, it might be best to choose hidden attackers as your second stratagem rather than sneak attack. That will give you a little extra survivability and force your opponent to get in close to deal with the hunters. if you leave a small "tail" when you redeploy your hunters, she should still be in range for mystic shield. 

In this case, you can also use your 2 free t-rev's to block approach to the third objective. that way after your first turn, you opponent will have to make 1 of 3 choices. Attack the buffed hunters, or ignore them and try to shift one of the two defenders off the objectives. Since the hunters are dead center getting to Allarielle won't be easy, and they'll likely be forced to choose between the outcasts or t-revs. The outcasts are fairly survivable since you have 5 units of 5 (4 outcasts in cover and 1 unit of T-revs), plus shooting is limited to 12" in the first round from hidden attackers. It will take 3-4 rounds of combat to fully clear that forest and that's plenty of time for the hunters to wrap up what they're doing and lend some support. The t-rev's are more a "speed bump" than anything else, and will only last a round or two. But even still, what your opponent will be able to bring to bear should be greatly diminished by your first strike, and even if he manages to capture an objective, the best he can do is tie your objective count for a couple of rounds until the hunters can pry him off. All you need is one point more than him to win, and he should be hobbled enough by the alpha strike that evening tying your count will be a challenge.

It will really depend what their deployment was like and whats available to him. But either way Alarielle will be able to support either combat until the hunters have finished with whatever they were killing mid-field. 

This list is very aggressive and immediately puts your opponent on the back foot. Unless you opponent brings loads of chaff he won't be able to bubblewrap everything and you'll be able to pick where you want to put that first hunter missile since the re-deploy happens at the start of the first battle round after deployment. 

Good luck mate and let us know how it goes!

[Adasi]

what is the list your describing (or what page of this massive topic can i find it on?)

 

Thanks

[SpiritofHokuto]

16 hours ago, Aezeal said:

40 points spare means more Dryads and less revenants in my book.

Eh blocks of 10 Dryads don't really do all that much. At least with the T-Revs you have the tactical flexibility to Waypipe into annoying positions and with the Glade Banner you can have them in unusual formations to maximise restrictions on enemy movement while still being able to pile in and attack if they survive.

[Jorthax]

17 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Lots of awesome stuff

Mirage... Have you been considered for Sainthood? That is probably one of the best posts ever. 

Thank you so much. I will report back!

[Aezeal]

21 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

@Jorthax Nice! Good luck to you. Since I've done a lot of work putting this list and the accompanying sequence together, here's a run down and some thoughts to get you started:

Assuming you roll at least 2 stratagems before setup (about a 70% chance), you're looking for ambush and sneak attack. If you only get one ambush will do just fine, but it's likely Alarielle won't be in combat till round 2. Thats not too much of a problem, as she should be able to offer ranged and spell support even if she's not directly smashing heads in CC. 

 

~

A note about battle plans:

This list is very hero light. So for battelplans like 3 places of power that require you capture objectives with heroes, you'll have to be creative. In this case, put your free forest over one of the side objectives, and plan to have Alarielle take the middle behind the hunters. Since she won't be in combat, it might be best to choose hidden attackers as your second stratagem rather than sneak attack. That will give you a little extra survivability and force your opponent to get in close to deal with the hunters. if you leave a small "tail" when you redeploy your hunters, she should still be in range for mystic shield. 

In this case, you can also use your 2 free t-rev's to block approach to the third objective. that way after your first turn, you opponent will have to make 1 of 3 choices. Attack the buffed hunters, or ignore them and try to shift one of the two defenders off the objectives. Since the hunters are dead center getting to Allarielle won't be easy, and they'll likely be forced to choose between the outcasts or t-revs. The outcasts are fairly survivable since you have 5 units of 5 (4 outcasts in cover and 1 unit of T-revs), plus shooting is limited to 12" in the first round from hidden attackers. It will take 3-4 rounds of combat to fully clear that forest and that's plenty of time for the hunters to wrap up what they're doing and lend some support. The t-rev's are more a "speed bump" than anything else, and will only last a round or two. But even still, what your opponent will be able to bring to bear should be greatly diminished by your first strike, and even if he manages to capture an objective, the best he can do is tie your objective count for a couple of rounds until the hunters can pry him off. All you need is one point more than him to win, and he should be hobbled enough by the alpha strike that evening tying your count will be a challenge.

It will really depend what their deployment was like and whats available to him. But either way Alarielle will be able to support either combat until the hunters have finished with whatever they were killing mid-field. 

This list is very aggressive and immediately puts your opponent on the back foot. Unless you opponent brings loads of chaff he won't be able to bubblewrap everything and you'll be able to pick where you want to put that first hunter missile since the re-deploy happens at the start of the first battle round after deployment. 

Good luck mate and let us know how it goes!

I think if you get first turn and just kill enemy hero's on 3 places of power you should be able to just make sure the enemy CAN"T score.

[Mirage8112]

I think if you get first turn and just kill enemy hero's on 3 places of power you should be able to just make sure the enemy CAN"T score.

Yes, but it depends on deployment and how many heroes he has.


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[DantePQ]

Hi I've played with Mirage's list against SE eternals and I must say it was quite impressive will write my raport later on, but I've got different question what do you think is the most optimal army for 1000  ? 

 

I've got two ides : 

1. Drycha (Regrowth), 5-Tree Revenants, 20 Dryads, 6 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes or instead of Dryads another Tree Revenants and Branchwych(Verdant Blessing).

Another idea is : Branchwych (Ranu Lamentiri,Regrowth), 20 Dryads, 5 Tree-Reventants, 9 Kurnth Hunters with scythes. 

 

What do you think ? 

 

EDIT: Dreadwood Wargrove Battle Rep

My Army : Alarielle (with Regrowth), 3x5 Tree-Revs, 4x5 Spite-Revs,9 Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes 

My opponents had ( I'm not very familiar with how SE heroes are called) - big tank guy on Dracoth (with save re-rolls and giving cover save to nearby units, 2xpriestes, flying guy with lanter, judicators, 2 more ranged units, and his alpha strike with 3x5 paladins) 

Scenario : Take and Hold (but with kill points as well) 

Basically I won big I had first turn so I almost killed his general (Alarielle cast Arcane Bolt and then shoot him) I charged into him with Alarielle charging one ranged unit and priest as well. Kurnoth Hunters charged into another ranged unit, leader and priest. I killed general, both ranged units and one priest. Next two my opponents alpha striked his paladins into Alarielle and Kurnoth Hunters. Kurnoth Hunters chopped down one unit, but Alarielle was left on one wound (killing bunch of Paladins back). Unfortunately opponent got double so he managed to kill Alarielle. But from there one it was all Sylvaneth ( Tree-Revenants charged into Judicators) and Kurnoth Hunters destroyed rest of Paladins. I didn't manged to take second marker by the end of 3rd turn, but by the end of 4 my opponents had only one hero left(but we played with kill points as well in our league so I won 18-2 in total)

I think this army could be freakish strong, there is big 1500 tournament coming in my area and I'm thinking about list with Drycha and 6 Kurnoth Hunters could this work ? (Drycha with Regrowth, 2x5 T-Revs, 20 Dryads, 4x5 Spite-Revs, 6 Hunters with Scythers) I will have to try this out.