AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[KibaWildFang]

9 hours ago, Honk said:

You‘ll have to feel it for yourself. It all depends on your opponent, its list and skill level, then the victory conditions and what happens, when the first dice come flying...

usually my regent summons a varghulf, but for objective/backfield security, there was this game 😅 the only truth varghulf or ghouls, never other courtiers, because why...

looking at your lists (sober this time 🥳) I need to try out a defensive mordant list, with 40 ghouls to slingshot roughly 18“ across the board to some far away objective. I‘m always too focused on  assault... 🤔

Whoa, I never even thought of throwing the ghouls up the board! Though I’m a little worried that this is all gonna be irrelevant if/when they take away battalions in 3.0... I know its rumors at the moment but I’m a tad worried.

[Honk]

7 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

I know its rumors at the moment but I’m a tad worried.

Me too... but that’s because we got interesting ones like mordants, patrol or deadwatch and menagerie is funny. as LoNagash player nothing was really useful, deathmarch only for pros, first cohort 3/4 of your army and nerfed

but, speaking of LoN, Soulblight has got battalions so my prophetic snails left sings on the porch:

instead of ditching battalions, the AoS 3.0 handbook will introduce generic ones 🙀 maybe with keywords or with stat requirements:

Outrider detachment, (120pts)

hero, 1+ battleline, 1 elite; models in this battalion need to have a movement of 8+“
then some „after set up, but before determining first turn, move up to the move characteristic“ 

if they come up with 6 of them like, ambush, stalwart defenders, magic coven, outriders, artillery train and Guerilla force, everybody could find something useful, of course there will be waac-top level auto-include for army X for the most ambitious, but it would also boost some lower tier lists, if they are suddenly able to to some funky stuff...

[KibaWildFang]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

Me too... but that’s because we got interesting ones like mordants, patrol or deadwatch and menagerie is funny. as LoNagash player nothing was really useful, deathmarch only for pros, first cohort 3/4 of your army and nerfed

but, speaking of LoN, Soulblight has got battalions so my prophetic snails left sings on the porch:

instead of ditching battalions, the AoS 3.0 handbook will introduce generic ones 🙀 maybe with keywords or with stat requirements:

Outrider detachment, (120pts)

hero, 1+ battleline, 1 elite; models in this battalion need to have a movement of 8+“
then some „after set up, but before determining first turn, move up to the move characteristic“ 

if they come up with 6 of them like, ambush, stalwart defenders, magic coven, outriders, artillery train and Guerilla force, everybody could find something useful, of course there will be waac-top level auto-include for army X for the most ambitious, but it would also boost some lower tier lists, if they are suddenly able to to some funky stuff...

So basically 40k’s system? If that’s the case I hope they give us the game size command points, like 12 for 2000pts. That would give plenty of Frenzies and give us some breathing room, and let other Courts shine. My problem with some courts was, why use their ability over Frenzy?

[Honk]

2 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

My problem with some courts was, why use their ability over Frenzy?

I know... 🤣but :

hollowmourne run&charge? That can be good

blisterskin teleport? Sure, fast redeploy and with spectral host even ghouls can fly 

gristlegore top level monster? Well, because you’re fishing for 6s with your Tg and the maw doesn’t degrade...only if you somehow end up with a wounded Zd

morghaunt ? I had to look them up, buuuut if you play for fun with massed ghouls, resurrection on 4+ is pretty good too

 

[KibaWildFang]

2 hours ago, Honk said:

I know... 🤣but :

hollowmourne run&charge? That can be good

blisterskin teleport? Sure, fast redeploy and with spectral host even ghouls can fly 

gristlegore top level monster? Well, because you’re fishing for 6s with your Tg and the maw doesn’t degrade...only if you somehow end up with a wounded Zd

morghaunt ? I had to look them up, buuuut if you play for fun with massed ghouls, resurrection on 4+ is pretty good too

 

That’s what I’m saying, I hope the new edition will give us the wiggle room we need to do both and not have to choose if we fo Frenzy or Court CA!

One can hope anyway

[KibaWildFang]

On another note, I wish that the Muster ability worked a bit differently. I wish you got to roll for each Courtier, but only one of them need be near the blob of ghouls to muster all those models. For example, it would be awesome if two Varghulfs got to rampage around the battefield doing what they do best, but also contribute to the muster roll for the Crypt Ghast babysitting 40 ghouls. I fee it would make ghoul spam a little more reliable. It seems like nowadays people are ignoring the whole “muster lots of ghouls” playstyle. I routinely see lists running squads of 10-20 ghouls. Is that the way to go now?

Then again, a Ghast along for the ride is still 6/40 ghouls potentially coming back so maybe my line of thinking would be too broken.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

12 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

maybe my line of thinking would be too broken.

No no, please roll for each courtier, then decide where to put that model...🥳👍

i get enough hate, when a good roll brings back 3-4 flayers 🙈🤣

[KibaWildFang]

I’ve been doing more looking into Royal Mordants! I saw one list I really liked, and made a small variant of it to try out. To keep a long story short, it’s one of the lists from the Goonhammer article.

I thought up a slight change; cut one squad of flayers, bump the Horrors to 6, add 20 more ghouls for an extra objective/speedbump. I know horrors aren’t the best, but I felt that it would be easier to guard the King if the unit wasn’t minimum. Someone in my local meta says he really enjoys them at 6, either going first and sending them up, or going second and having them hang back. The difference is he had a 40-man ghoul blob and a minimum 10-man. I divided them up evenly.

In all honesty, it’s probably a better idea to go with the linked list. But its an option!

[KibaWildFang]

So I looked over the new rules that were shown, as I’m sure most people have. It looks like with the coming ability for unit champions to use Command Abilities, the days of needing a hero to babysit all our blobs of ghouls/flayers/horrors are coming to an end. Personally, I’m excited that a blob of 40 ghouls can frenzy itself out of nowhere. Everything got a lot more threatening. It seems courtiers are going to be for Mustering and Feel No Pain now. We no longer have to truly lean on too many leaders!

I’m curious to hear everyone’s thoughts, ideas, and plans. Anyone have any thought on their future lists?

Edited June 4, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Svalack]

I don't like the idea that 2/3 of the time my feeding frenzy will be switched off against monsters. Especially the big hero monsters where i really need it. Gristlegore command ability suffers from this too, though i haven't been using it.

GKoTG and GKoZD could be going up in points if all hero monsters are going up.

Hoping for some points drops on a few things, especially as saves are going up things like horrors with 0 rend should get a drop.

Waiting to hear if coherency is being changed too cos i rely a lot on stringing out lines of ghouls to screen and our big guys have 1 inch range attacks too which will make larger units less useful if they have to be in 2 ranks.

I'm going to miss hero phase move a lot from royal mordants.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Svalack

[Honk]

6 hours ago, Svalack said:

I don't like the idea that 2/3 of the time my feeding frenzy will be switched off against monsters.

Yes, that will be a tough but to crack. 
 

But AoS 3.0 as the best rules ever written within the best rules ever possible will shake up things dramatically, for every faction and will need time to get settled. Once per game  abilities, battalions yes/no/some... and so on.

with Soulblight supposed to be written with 3.0 in mind (hopefully), I don’t really see too many obvious „weirdness“. there are a lot of „counts as additional general“ named characters, but otherwise...looks normal.

mawshard will be valuable for champion sniping...

interesting times

[KibaWildFang]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:22 AM, Svalack said:

 

(GKoTG and GKoZD could be going up in points if all hero monsters are going up.)

I don’t think ours will, they’re already really high up there.

So since we’re losing Mordants, is it worth it to have Varg in the main list anymore?

I’m also tempted to test out Completely Delusional. Either start with Defenders for the save reroll if we go second. Then either if we go first, or when we get our turn, we pop into Feast Day and have at it. Or play aggressively from the start, begin with Crusading Army and use it to get stuck in, then when we’ve moved up enough we swap to Feast Day.

(messed up quote, oops..)

Edited June 7, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Honk]

12 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

So since we’re losing Mordants, is it worth it to have Varg in the main list anymore?

It is a good unit... even at the price.

Since nothing is certain for 3.0 all is speculation. Double Regent could be funky, it is 80 points more, but all the options... 🙀

I‘m still not sold on the removal of battalions, since they are a part of Kragnos, but who knows. 
For now, can’t go wrong with Flayer heavy feast day

[Svalack]

I'm not sure about lists moving forward after reading the coherency change.

We need units of 6-9 to make the attack buff worth it, the double swing and chance to survive combat to muster. But now you have to be in 2 ranks on horrors/flayers.

I dont think MSU is really our thing

Edited June 7, 2021 by Svalack

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Svalack said:

But now you have to be in 2 ranks on horrors/flayers.

Damnation never really though about that 😬

not really sure what two models within 1“ and 6“ means, if you string out six models, the corner piece has two other models within 6“ 🤔

 

[KibaWildFang]

7 hours ago, Honk said:

It is a good unit... even at the price.

Since nothing is certain for 3.0 all is speculation. Double Regent could be funky, it is 80 points more, but all the options... 🙀

I‘m still not sold on the removal of battalions, since they are a part of Kragnos, but who knows. 
For now, can’t go wrong with Flayer heavy feast day

Flayer-heavy Feast Day is my kind of solid “take all comers” list I have going on right now. I’m gonna be taking:

AAR

AGKoRTG

Varg

20/20/10 ghouls

2 units of 6 flayers

Charnel throne

Simple, yet effective.

[Svalack]

9 hours ago, Honk said:

Damnation never really though about that 😬

not really sure what two models within 1“ and 6“ means, if you string out six models, the corner piece has two other models within 6“ 🤔

 

The 6" is vertical which is just for models being on top of each other on seperate floors on terrain etc.

I've seen people come up with interesting formations to still use 6 cavalry or 40mm rounds. 50mm with 1" range will only have the front row fighting though, movement around terrain and piling in will be very difficult as well.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Svalack

[KibaWildFang]

6 hours ago, Svalack said:

The 6" is vertical which is just for models being on top of each other on seperate floors on terrain etc.

I've seen people come up with interesting formations to still use 6 cavalry or 40mm rounds. 50mm with 1" range will only have the front row fighting though, movement around terrain and piling in will be very difficult as well.

Whoa, wait, what does this mean for 6-man units of flayers? Should I go down to 3? Or should I stay 6 and keep mustering? I want them all to be able to get attacks in..

I want to run units of 6 really badly.

Edited June 8, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Liquidsteel]

1 hour ago, KibaWildFang said:

Whoa, wait, what does this mean for 6-man units of flayers? Should I go down to 3? Or should I stay 6 and keep mustering? I want them all to be able to get attacks in..

I want to run units of 6 really badly.

Wait for the full rules before getting too worked up about it.

[KibaWildFang]

31 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

Wait for the full rules before getting too worked up about it.

Right. Fair. I guess in the meantime I’ll keep building and painting. Been trying to fix my archregent recently. Once he’s closer to done I’ll post pics.

[Svalack]

6 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

Whoa, wait, what does this mean for 6-man units of flayers? Should I go down to 3? Or should I stay 6 and keep mustering? I want them all to be able to get attacks in..

I want to run units of 6 really badly.

You would still want atleast 1 unit of 6-9 anyway in FEC. Even if they have to fight in two ranks. There is more chance of them surviving combat to muster, and the remaining will have the attack buffs for another round of combat.

The upfront damage they do is going to be much less than before, there still could be other rules for monstrous infantry though or a massive points decrease.

The rally command ability they showed today would be great on a 9 man horror/flayer too if we have the CP to spare.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Svalack

[KibaWildFang]

4 hours ago, Svalack said:

You would still want atleast 1 unit of 6-9 anyway in FEC. Even if they have to fight in two ranks. There is more chance of them surviving combat to muster, and the remaining will have the attack buffs for another round of combat.

The upfront damage they do is going to be much less than before, there still could be other rules for monstrous infantry though or a massive points decrease.

The rally command ability they showed today would be great on a 9 man horror/flayer too if we have the CP to spare.

Wait so how would fighting in two ranks work then? Well.. with what we know anyway. You’d only get the first 3 to swing into combat? Feast Day pile-ins feel like they’d be a lot more important with this in mind. Also, what’s this going to do to ghouls?

If I do end up going to one 6-man unit of Flayers instead of 2, I wonder what I am gonna do with the points... maybe go Blisterskin, cut 10 ghouls and throw in another AGKoRTG/ZD. 
 

But again... too early to start list building.

Edited June 8, 2021 by KibaWildFang

[Freejack02]

5 hours ago, KibaWildFang said:

Wait so how would fighting in two ranks work then? Well.. with what we know anyway. You’d only get the first 3 to swing into combat? Feast Day pile-ins feel like they’d be a lot more important with this in mind. Also, what’s this going to do to ghouls?

Large bases basically have to line up in two ranks, so yes only the front row would get to swing in combat (which sucks). I'm not sure what Feast Day pile-ins will do about this - you can't willingly break coherence during any sort of move (run, charge, pile-in, etc) so you couldn't get any more units in no matter what you do. There's speculation that we will get a rule similar to 40k that says something like "models within .5" of a unit within range can attack as normal" so that the back rank isn't screwed completely. 

Funny enough Ghouls are ok with this, because they're on 25mm bases - so as long as they're b2b with each other they're within 1" of 2 models anyway. 

[Honk]

6 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Large bases basically have to line up in two ranks

A bunch of „line dance“ formations are discussed right now, I think not that bid a deal for 6 flayers...

charge in as a line, kill stuff and the first casualty will bring you down to 5. 🤷🏿‍♀️
big block of 9...wasn’t getting all into combat anyway.

 

I’m very curious how much 40k will be in AoS 🧐

Edited June 9, 2021 by Honk

[Honk]

Just now, Honk said:I’m very curious how much 40k will be in AoS 🧐

Brilliant me... double 4thewin 🤪

Edited June 9, 2021 by Honk