Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Requizen]

Hammerstrike Force + Vexillor is a thing. Everything starts on the table, banner the Prosecutors 9" away, drop the Paladins on the doorstep.

If you know who will be determining turn one, you can actually just have the Prosecutors run (if they have a reroll runs buffs then whether this buff is in range will be measured from their starting position by the way). So they can move 12+D6, then you can then drop the Paladin unit(s) from out of the Celestial Realm within 5" of them, which can be one model within 5" of the nearest Prosecutor, then you can conga the rest - gives a further trade-off/reason to take Protectors over Retributors - as the 3" range means that even with a bad charge roll, you should get most of them into combat (the Maces will be at the end of the conga line 3" from the enemy with the 3" range Protectors lagging behind them and linking up to the Prosecutors).

The only downside to running up for Hammerstrike is that it very much depends on your opponent just not having a way to stop it. If they wall with chaff, it'll be hard for you to get around it. If they deploy far back with shooting/important units, the run won't be enough. If they bubble wrap, angles will be difficult, etc. Against many armies it'll be fine, though.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[wayniac]

I think Hammerstrike is going to be too much of a gimmick; either your opponent is unprepared and gets steamrolled, or he is prepared and the maneuver fails.

[Lissë-Prime]

2 hours ago, Nubgan said:

Does anyone know whether the Warscroll cards have the formations in at all?

No. Only Warscrolls.

[BURF1]

10 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

Hammerstrike force can work for 2 units of paladins (not as powerful as before though as they do not get the reroll 1s to wound and +1 bravery or the immune to battleshock from the Skyborne Slayers) and still you have to roll for the Retributors to come. They may come to soon, or too late or not at all.

This is not a great strategy and has many risks.

The safe way will be imo to have the Prosecutors on the table from the get go, which again has its risks and limits the way the other guys will arrive...

Hammerstrike force works exactly the same as it did before, the only thing you will ever have to roll for is the prosecutors if you choose to keep them in reserves (probably should). Remember, if you're setting them up with the battalion's ability you're not using scions of the storm to set them up so don't have to roll for it. BUT you can still use scions of the storm for the prosecutors and save 140pts on a vexilor banner.

[Nico]

Quote

BUT you can still use scions of the storm for the prosecutors and save 140pts on a vexilor banner.

You could, but then you need to roll that 3+, which seems like a risk. There's also a large blue two-headed bird out there that really loves it when people's strategies hinge on a key dice roll.

Quote

I think Hammerstrike is going to be too much of a gimmick; either your opponent is unprepared and gets steamrolled, or he is prepared and the maneuver fails.

 I know what you mean, the alternative might be that you spend 2 turns shooting holes in the enemy (e.g. with those Raptors or the new Infiltrating Dudes) and forcing them to spread out and then sling in the Prosecutors in the 3rd Battleround once there are some weakspots to insert Maces into. This would be a lot more nuanced than Skyborne Slayers or Warrior Brotherhood.

[OlDirtyCosta]

35 minutes ago, Nico said:

You could, but then you need to roll that 3+, which seems like a risk. There's also a large blue two-headed bird out there that really loves it when people's strategies hinge on a key dice roll.

 I know what you mean, the alternative might be that you spend 2 turns shooting holes in the enemy (e.g. with those Raptors or the new Infiltrating Dudes) and forcing them to spread out and then sling in the Prosecutors in the 3rd Battleround once there are some weakspots to insert Maces into. This would be a lot more nuanced than Skyborne Slayers or Warrior Brotherhood.

This the route I believe I am going.  I dont like too much hard core theory craft until I can digest the while book:)

[wayniac]

I may have to consider that approach as well, with the Hammerstrike.  I have too many ideas I am considering right now   However I think at 120 points it's pretty pricey, and from my initial listbuilding attempts, points add up quickly!

[Siegfried VII]

1 hour ago, BURF1 said:

Hammerstrike force works exactly the same as it did before, the only thing you will ever have to roll for is the prosecutors if you choose to keep them in reserves (probably should). Remember, if you're setting them up with the battalion's ability you're not using scions of the storm to set them up so don't have to roll for it. BUT you can still use scions of the storm for the prosecutors and save 140pts on a vexilor banner.

 

Remember that if you put the Prosecutors in the celestial realm you have to roll each turn for them to determine whether they'll come or not and on a 3+ you will have to set them up, so you won't have control over the timing of your assault this way making it a risk and unreliable strategy...

[wayniac]

9 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

Remember that if you put the Prosecutors in the celestial realm you have to roll each turn for them to determine whether they'll come or not and on a 3+ you will have to set them up, so you won't have control over the timing of your assault this way making it a risk and unreliable strategy...

I think Hammerstrike overrides the default in that you can choose.  Not sure though.

[Kytlock]

So two questions. As a new player, is building my first 1k points starting with Hammerstrike a decent choice? I've already got 5 Ret's.

Secondly, do I want to max my star soul maces in the unit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Siegfried VII]

1 minute ago, wayniac said:

I think Hammerstrike overrides the default in that you can choose.  Not sure though.

The override is only for the Paladins. The Prosecutors are set up normaly or via scions of the storm ability (with the above mentioned dissadvantages).

[wayniac]

Just now, Siegfried VII said:

The override is only for the Paladins. The Prosecutors are set up normaly or via scions of the storm ability (with the above mentioned dissadvantages).

Interesting.  I am really disliking that "you must roll every turn" for them.  I think that might be the first thing I push to have house-ruled (beyond measuring from bases) because it seems absolutely stupid like it takes away the entire purpose of holding them back (i.e. being able to choose when they come in).  I had thought in 40k you can choose whether or not you want to roll for your reserves to come in, it's not they might just decide "Hey we're showing up get ready!" 

[Siegfried VII]

Just now, Kytlock said:

So two questions. As a new player, is building my first 1k points starting with Hammerstrike a decent choice? I've already got 5 Ret's.

Secondly, do I want to max my star soul maces in the unit?
 

Math-hammer wise regarding the Retributors it isn't essential to max on the Starsoul Maces as they get perhaps 1 more damage on average with those. (having them all with their normal weapons increases the chances to trigger their 2 mortal wound attacks).

Protectors on the other hand need the maces.

[Kytlock]

Math-hammer wise regarding the Retributors it isn't essential to max on the Starsoul Maces as they get perhaps 1 more damage on average with those. (having them all with their normal weapons increases the chances to trigger their 2 mortal wound attacks).
Protectors on the other hand need the maces.

Is there a reason to go Protectors over Retributors?

Sorry for the newbie questions. Just trying to spend money wisely getting into AoS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Siegfried VII]

3 minutes ago, Kytlock said:

 

Is there a reason to go Protectors over Retributors?

Sorry for the newbie questions. Just trying to spend money wisely getting into AoS.
 

 

My personal opinion is that Protectors are miles better overall than Retributors.

1) They have 3" range on their weapons making them the only unit in the Stormcast army that can fight in 2 or even 3 ranks, thus making them an ideal unit to use in numbers (I run a unit of 15 myself with 6 Starsoul Maces).

2) They have the potential to do d6 damage on monsters making them fearsome against them.

3) They have the -1 to hit against shooting which is great and also grant it on units behind them which is awesome.

 

Retributors just do a bit more damage.

[wayniac]

6 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

My personal opinion is that Protectors are miles better overall than Retributors.

1) They have 3" range on their weapons making them the only unit in the Stormcast army that can fight in 2 or even 3 ranks, thus making them an ideal unit to use in numbers (I run a unit of 15 myself with 6 Starsoul Maces).

2) They have the potential to do d6 damage on monsters making them fearsome against them.

3) They have the -1 to hit against shooting which is great and also grant it on units behind them which is awesome.

 

Retributors just do a bit more damage.

How about if you aren't facing monsters though?  It seems like Protectors are better against Monsters, Decimators against very large (20+) units, and Retributors as an all-around general purpose unit.

[SpiritofHokuto]

6 minutes ago, wayniac said:

How about if you aren't facing monsters though?  It seems like Protectors are better against Monsters, Decimators against very large (20+) units, and Retributors as an all-around general purpose unit.

The 3" reach and the extra attack make me feel like Protectors are the better all round choice vs Retributors that excel against elite infantry and funnily enough monsters. Sure the odd extra d6 wounds vs monsters is nice but Retributors piling on the mortal wounds takes most monsters down hard.

 

Also worth noting that Protectors gain a lot from the Celestial Vindicators Warrior Chamber.

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, Siegfried VII said:

Remember that if you put the Prosecutors in the celestial realm you have to roll each turn for them to determine whether they'll come or not and on a 3+ you will have to set them up, so you won't have control over the timing of your assault this way making it a risk and unreliable strategy...

Look friend, I come from 40k and I am well aware of the issues here, that said your OPPONENT doesn't know when they're coming in either which balances out a bit, oh they kept their chaff in close turn one and you rolled a 2? Well now THEY'RE screwed. It's still not as good as warrior brotherhood but it's also about 600 points cheaper to run. If you want to use paladins still this is pretty much the only way to do it. The Vexilor banner will make the drop more reliable but it creates different areas of failure like getting the banner sniped AND will cost 140 points. You just have to ask yourself is the risk differential worth 140pts to you?

[Grailstorm]

Can anyone see the new Stormcast book on the app yet? I know it's not out until tomorrow, but normally you can see a preview. 

[ZaelART]

2 hours ago, Grailstorm said:

Can anyone see the new Stormcast book on the app yet? I know it's not out until tomorrow, but normally you can see a preview. 

I don't see anything, how quickly does it normally get updated?

[Grailstorm]

1 hour ago, ZaelART said:

I don't see anything, how quickly does it normally get updated?

The Tzeentch book was listed days before release and became live at midnight.

[ZaelART]

Unbelievable, 00:10 and not a whisper. Seems no one can 'just as planned' in the same way as the changer of ways. Come on Sigmar, get your act together.

[Requizen]

Look friend, I come from 40k and I am well aware of the issues here, that said your OPPONENT doesn't know when they're coming in either which balances out a bit, oh they kept their chaff in close turn one and you rolled a 2? Well now THEY'RE screwed. It's still not as good as warrior brotherhood but it's also about 600 points cheaper to run. If you want to use paladins still this is pretty much the only way to do it. The Vexilor banner will make the drop more reliable but it creates different areas of failure like getting the banner sniped AND will cost 140 points. You just have to ask yourself is the risk differential worth 140pts to you?

If there's a chance of the Vex getting sniped (ranged prowess, alpha strikes, etc), then you can still elect to put the Prosecutors in the sky and potentially teleport another unit with the banner. If he doesn't die, he's still another unit for various keyword activations and gives out the reroll bubble. 140 is a lot more reasonable, especially in this post-WB world.

That said, if they don't remove or change Skyborne Slayers I will probably be using that for competition as long as I can.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[kozokus]

12 hours ago, wayniac said:

How about if you aren't facing monsters though?  It seems like Protectors are better against Monsters, Decimators against very large (20+) units, and Retributors as an all-around general purpose unit.

The retributos ability to deal mortal wounds and bypass armor is a thing to take in acount.

Whats really work for the protector is that 3" range that allow you to field 10+ unit unpunished and the -1 to be hit on range. the D6 dammage on monster is just a bonus. In any case, you WANT to maximise your Starsoule maces.

[ZaelART]

So, you think they've forgotten about the AoS app? I notice the battletome is available on iBooks and as an ePub on black library already.