Let's Chat: Verminus

[Skreech Verminking]

Hi everybody, I played today a 2500points game of mixed skaven (mostly Verminus and Masterclan) against maggotkins.

So my list included:

3Screaming Bells:600p

1Skaven warlord on Brood horror:220p

(Warlord of the Army with the gift of chaos, and the lord of war)

5x40Clanrats:1000p

1x40Stormvermin:500p

1Warplightning cannon.

well since I was playing against a friend of mine who just started playing aos a month or so, I thought it would be nice if I’d use a rather strange and not to hard list against him.

this is one reason why I chose to go with 3screaming bells, after all I was ones on of those guys who said that they are rather bad, but after this battle I really am going to take everything back what I said about those guys.

well first turn went as usual for both of us moving up to engage into battle I lost almost a full skaven unit to battleshock and some Blightlords, but hey who cares right!?

they are only meat shields meant to take the charge and die.

Anyways, I won the role of for the second turn and started to ring al three bells.

now the best thing was, that I got out of those three roles, for two Screaming Bell a 10 and 11.

which meant that I now had a 40rat unit of Stormvermins with 5Attacks hitting on 2 and wounding on 3  per models.

well I went with the unit up charged his 2Blighlord and 6Plaguedrones, and showed them what it meant to by overkilled 3 Times in a row by some stormvermins .

well after that the battle went mostly to my favour after all he has lost he’s more or less elite units, which probably costed together more then my stormvermins.

so yeah instead of playing a friendly army which has a high possibility of loosing. I somhow mad an army full of death frenzied Clanrats and Stormvermins, which will practically gnaw every enemy unit in on turn to a pile of bones 

[Num]

Thanks so much for your battle reports! You've got tons of clanrats so its always a pleasure to hear about how your list performs. It's inspiring

A few pages back we had some discussions on running multiple bells to increase the likelihood of getting a frenzy. Once I get a second bell I might try running both on 2k games (or perhaps even 1500)

Please continue sharing your great battle reports

[Mayple]

Since I built a new Verminlord, which I decided to run as a Warpgnaw Verminlord, I ended up not running with a full Vermintide list. Instead, I wanted to see how well we can deepstrike outside of Skryre - I was not disappointed.

I was up against the menacing lord Kroak(nado) list that tore apart my Skryre army single handedly. I concluded then that I should abandon my trip into competitive Skryre (as it turned out to have such glaring weakness), and instead continue to focus on the 'non-competitive' Verminus. Now my army was finally consolidated to an acceptable size, and so I was very curious to see how it would match up against his Kroak list, which he has tailored with tournament-level play in mind.

His list:

- Kroak

- 3x10 skinks

- 2x Bastilladon

- 1x Troglodon

- 3 skink handlers

- 6x Fire shooting lizard things (The name eludes me)

- Balewind

- Thunderquake batallion (I think)

I think he put his ressurection artifact on one of the bastiladons, or the Troglodon. He had far less drops than me, but it turned out to work in my favor.

I brought:

- Warlord (General, Dark Avenger)

- Warpgnaw Verminlord (Crown of Command)

- 4x40 clanrats (2 with spears, 2 with blades)

- 40 Stormvermin

- 20 Gutter runners

- 6 Poison Wind globadiers (60 points leftover, they did nothing )

 

We play scorched earth, minimal terrain.

I start by deploying gutter runners and Verminlord /w Stormvermin, respectively,  to the side, giving me free insight into his deployment pattern while revealing none of my own. He does the math on the Gutter Runners, and decides he doesn't want to risk them coming up behind him, so he deploys defensively - denying space for deepstriking anywhere on his side, so I'd have to come at him from the front. Kroak, for once, does not deploy in a corner, but drops in-between all his beasts. His Salamanders back up 10 skinks on his right flank, but at a distance. 

I deploy my warlord behind a chunk of rock at the very edge of the map on my side, hoping to avoid the Kroaknado, or teleporting bastiladon sniping. One unit if bladerats stretch across my whole front line, while the remaining three cover an objective each.

Not wanting to risk Kroak getting assassinated by gutter runners, or a bold Stormvermin/Verminlord charge, he took the first turn.

Turn 1:

Kroak teleports to a point 2/3 on his side of the map, dead center. He throws up the balewind and hits everything I have on the map. Luckily, half of my points are not. Some clanrats die, as they should, and my corner-hugging warlord is left with 2 wounds. A change to Balewind in the upcoming generals handbook would be a welcome improvement

His bastiladons shoot some clanrats. He focus his shots on the spear rats to reduce their combat efficiency, which he should. He doesn't move much, not wanting to open up his territory to gutter runners or verminlord w/stormvermin.

On my turn, I hold my Verminlord w/Stormvermin, my warlord throws down inspiring presence, the only thing he got to do this game. I find a spot on his right flank where I can deploy my gutter runners effectively, and hurl shurikens at his skinks. I then make the charge, slaughter the remaining skinks, and burn the objective for 3 points. I don't expect the gutter runners to survive, but they've done their job and have given me control of the battle. My opponent is now forced to take the offensive, or lose the game. With 4 almost full units of clanrats between him and that goal, and with most of my hard-hitters still underground, I don't intend to give him that chance. To that end, I marched the map-spanning clanrat line 6'' forward, before I shot and charged with the gutter runners, and the other 3 clanrat units were deployed in such a manner as to deny teleporting. So if he wanted to take anything, he was forced to fight through me to get it.

Turn 2:

He won the roll-off, and took the  first turn. Kroaknado killed some clanrats, and finished off my warlord. His Salamanders moved towards his left flank and exterminated the entire unit of gutter runners. Bastiladons and Troglodon moved forward a bit, vary of my second deepstrike, and focus fired my center clanrat unit. After battleshock, 3 rats remained, forcing my hand. 

On my turn, I dropped down the Verminlord and Stormvermin in front of his Salamanders - as deep into his territory asto I would ever be able to thanks to the gutter runners opening that flank earlier (which was why I layered my deepstrikes) - from this position, I was in position to threaten his center objective, but the Salamanders were my priority. With them, he would be able to decimate my clanrats later in the game, and I had to cripple his ability to do so.

I failed both charges.

Turn 3:

Luckily, I'd been playing second turn for two turns now, so statistics bailed me out and I won the roll off.

I moved the Stormvermin forward, Verminlord skirted around, planning to threaten the left flank objective next turn. Clanrats pulled back, my right flank unit stretching onto the center objective, just in case I had to back i up.

Stormvermin charged and cut the Salamanders into red mist. Verminlord mashed the skink handlers blocking his path. Anything running into combat with the Stormvermin at this point would be annihilated, even bastiladons. In a fun turn of events, Kroak's balewind created a chokepoint which denied both his Troglodon and bastiladon from joining the fight. He'd have to destroy my clanrats, or I'd take his center objective next turn, or at the very least leave him completely unable to take any of mine.

After some shooting and magic, my stormvermin remained at a healthy 28 or 31 rats remaining. Verminlord at 7 wounds.

Turn 4:

We ran out of time. Ended it there. I won on points.

We plan to have a rematch this week, playing the starfall scenario.

 

Notes:

- 20 gutter runners are great suicide raiders. They dish out a respectable wound count.

- Warpgnaw Verminlord w/Stormvermin compliment Verminus well. Patience is key, and we can afford to wait. Definitely worth the points.

- Warlord general works? I have to see what he does in a non-Kroak match-up, but the idea is that he'll support the lines while the raiding party ( gutter runners, stormvermin, verminlord) do their thing. Leading from the back, effectively.

- Crippling the enemy's ability to deal with the vast amount of clanrats will be the decisive factor. This might be super relevant to any Verminus list. Hit the enemy where it hurts.

- Verminus-heavy armies can outright ignore Kroak and his ilk. 1d3 damage too our clanrats? Oh no.!..

 

I'll let you know how the rematch goes. We set off time to allow for full five rounds.

 

[Kirjava13]

I have had a Warpgnaw Verminlord sitting in his Forge World bag since last June- your battle report has made him start to look pretty enticing...

[Reeve]

I was thinking about this Vanguard list as an alternative to my 1k Skryre list that I play frequently: 

Allegiance: Verminus
Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- General
- Warpforged Blade
- Trait: Lord of War
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Grey Seer (120)
- Allies

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Stormvermin (280)
- Halberd & Shield

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 120 / 200
Wounds: 82
 

Thoughts? Might be a bit low on bodies for your average Verminus horde, but aside from the Verminlord (which I still need to buy) it is painted.

[treeclimber]

3 hours ago, Reeve said:

I was thinking about this Vanguard list as an alternative to my 1k Skryre list that I play frequently: 

Allegiance: Verminus
Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- General
- Warpforged Blade
- Trait: Lord of War
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Grey Seer (120)
- Allies

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Stormvermin (280)
- Halberd & Shield

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 120 / 200
Wounds: 82
 

Thoughts? Might be a bit low on bodies for your average Verminus horde, but aside from the Verminlord (which I still need to buy) it is painted.

I've played something quite similar recently in a three game tournament and... it did not do well. Absolutely no response to enemy shooting and not enough clan rats to really shield against run+charge armies (to be fair I was taken off guard by a Slaanesh army. 14" move. 2d6 run AND can charge afterwards? Holy smokes). Then again Im not sure what to change about your list...

Perhaps replace the Grey Seer with two poison wind mortars? I like having several wizards but I feel the long range shooting will help your army more overall. Since every other unit is vital to win combat the weapon teams could stay back and hold objectives in your area.

Man. I dunno. It's hard when you don't have enough points to take some throw-away units

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Reeve said:

I was thinking about this Vanguard list as an alternative to my 1k Skryre list that I play frequently: 

Allegiance: Verminus
Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- General
- Warpforged Blade
- Trait: Lord of War
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Grey Seer (120)
- Allies

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Stormvermin (280)
- Halberd & Shield

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 120 / 200
Wounds: 82
 

Thoughts? Might be a bit low on bodies for your average Verminus horde, but aside from the Verminlord (which I still need to buy) it is painted.

Well it looks good but I really would Chance the unit of stormvermin with more clanrats and an Poisoned wind mortar team and the grey seer for a Arch warlock.

The Grey seer and stormvermins are not to bad, but the grey seer is only good for its command ability, and then only if your going full out on clanrats.

and stormvermins are fine, but they will die horribly through shooting , and everything they can kill easily, can be also destroyed by a unit of 40Clanrats in less than a turn.

secondly a 40rat unit of clanrats cost less points than 20stormvermins, and the arch warlock is a better wizard than the grey seer and has a good chance of dealing a great mass of damage to a unit.

(ps: he also has a much better save than the grey seer) 

anyways if your unsure with the chances, well then try it out have fun 

and happy wargaming

[Reeve]

All good points, I'll have to ask, has anyone ever had success with Clanrats? My Stormvermin have been doing quite decently when I run a Chaos list but the Clanrats have literally done nothing ever but being speedbumps. The Helm of Conquest nerf is still problematic to me. And the fact that we don't really have an insane force amplifier like the Bloodreavers and Skeletons get. 

I mostly included the Grey Seer cuz he fitted in just right at 120 points and the fact that he just made a hell of a lot of thematic sense to me... He also brings some mortal wound support, since butchering hordes shouldn't be that difficult with all those rats. 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Reeve said:

All good points, I'll have to ask, has anyone ever had success with Clanrats? My Stormvermin have been doing quite decently when I run a Chaos list but the Clanrats have literally done nothing ever but being speedbumps. The Helm of Conquest nerf is still problematic to me. And the fact that we don't really have an insane force amplifier like the Bloodreavers and Skeletons get. 

I mostly included the Grey Seer cuz he fitted in just right at 120 points and the fact that he just made a hell of a lot of thematic sense to me... He also brings some mortal wound support, since butchering hordes shouldn't be that difficult with all those rats. 

Try buffing the clanrats with the warlords command ability gnash gnaw on there bones, up.

and if your playing with the grand  chaos allegiance, take the lord of war or if your playing against an order army the dark avenger for your warlord trait.

next  you could take a plague priest with censer.

by using his prayer you now have a unit of 40Clanrats which make 81attacks hitting on 2s wounding on 2s and if you used the plague Priest book this turn they can even reroll all to wound rolls.

And with it you now have a expendable unit of meat shields which can tear a mighty mawcrusha open 

[Reeve]

The unit might have 81 attacks, but how often do you get all 40 into combat range? It's true that with a bit of luck you can stack a lot of buffs on the unit, +1 from the Warlord, +1 hit from Lord of War, +1 Hit from the Destroyers trait, but I still don't see how that makes a unit of 20 Stormvermin a bad investment. They require less support to be an effective unit and while the Warlord ability doesn't nearly benefit them that much, baseline they have much better platform. I also see the problem that should always have inspiring presence on the ready, when I fight my friends undead force he frequently massacres a large portion of my unit with his patato sack full of dice generated by his Skeleton unit. Clanrats are not fond of Skeletons that get to attack 4 times each, I can tell you. 

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, Reeve said:

The unit might have 81 attacks, but how often do you get all 40 into combat range? It's true that with a bit of luck you can stack a lot of buffs on the unit, +1 from the Warlord, +1 hit from Lord of War, +1 Hit from the Destroyers trait, but I still don't see how that makes a unit of 20 Stormvermin a bad investment. They require less support to be an effective unit and while the Warlord ability doesn't nearly benefit them that much, baseline they have much better platform. I also see the problem that should always have inspiring presence on the ready, when I fight my friends undead force he frequently massacres a large portion of my unit with his patato sack full of dice generated by his Skeleton unit. Clanrats are not fond of Skeletons that get to attack 4 times each, I can tell you. 

Against skelletons you should be looking to punish his abysmall 4'' speed, and simply never fight him unless you know you'll hit hard enough to break him. Regularly retreat. Only stand and fight ontop of objectives. Clanrats are amazing mobility infantry.

You should probably split your stormvermin into two if you plan to keep them around. Better coverage, safer unless you want to camp them with inspiring - which you shouldn't, their value lies in self-sufficiency. Let them be self sufficient, and focus your inspiring presence and such on keeping your clanrats as annoying as possible. 

 

Gonna underline for importance: never fight skelletons with clanrats. Make them walk, they hate walking. 

[TheMuphinMan]

Is it worth it to run the compendium skaven chieften to help deal with the battleshock problem?  Its basically a skaven bloodsecrator if the bloodsecrator had shorter ranged bubble (13" vs 18"), a worse save (4+ vs 3+), a worse combat buff (reroll 1 to hit vs +1 attack), lacked rend,  didn't mess with your opponents casting, and costed 20 points more. As for the pros, it has its super situational promotion ability,  has the skaven and verminus keywords, and as a skaven hero it can be skitterleaped before planting the banner to get around the no movement clause if you ally in a deceiver. 

I think one could be made by kitbashing a stormvermin banner carrier with some plaguemonk/clanrat bits to give it a dagger and maker the banner more fancy or by taking a bloodsecrator, cutting off all the khorne markings, replacing them with Great Horned rat icons and putting a skaven head on on the shoulders.

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, TheMuphinMan said:

Is it worth it to run the compendium skaven chieften to help deal with the battleshock problem?  Its basically a skaven bloodsecrator if the bloodsecrator had shorter ranged bubble (13" vs 18"), a worse save (4+ vs 3+), a worse combat buff (reroll 1 to hit vs +1 attack), lacked rend,  didn't mess with your opponents casting, and costed 20 points more. As for the pros, it has its super situational promotion ability,  has the skaven and verminus keywords, and as a skaven hero it can be skitterleaped before planting the banner to get around the no movement clause if you ally in a deceiver. 

I think one could be made by kitbashing a stormvermin banner carrier with some plaguemonk/clanrat bits to give it a dagger and maker the banner more fancy or by taking a bloodsecrator, cutting off all the khorne markings, replacing them with Great Horned rat icons and putting a skaven head on on the shoulders.

Yeah well it was great bevor Gw chanced it warscroll rules ?,

now it only applies 1mortal wound per enemy unit in range of the banner and only on a role of 4+, 

well the best part is probably, that he still cost 140points?

[TheMuphinMan]

10 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah well it was great bevor Gw chanced it warscroll rules ?,

now it only applies 1mortal wound per enemy unit in range of the banner and only on a role of 4+, 

well the best part is probably, that he still cost 140points?

Yeah, I haven't redownloaded the warscroll on my phone so I still had the old one. The verminus keyword should of been my first clue. Oh well, maybe they'll get clawpack back in GH2018 or an allegiance ability 

[treeclimber]

Is there any reason people say you can’t use the verminus clawpack? It’s still in the age of sigmar app.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, treeclimber said:

Is there any reason people say you can’t use the verminus clawpack? It’s still in the age of sigmar app.

Well it’s just not useable in match play, after all it has no point value anymore 

[treeclimber]

8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well it’s just not useable in match play, after all it has no point value anymore 

That’s weird. It says right here in my app that it costs 80 points.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, treeclimber said:

That’s weird. It says right here in my app that it costs 80 points.

Well that’s funny I didn’t know they kept the point value of the formation in the app.

but hey if that’s the case great?? 

Hopfully they’ll ad it back as an option to the warscrollbuilder

[Mayple]

Wait, hold on. 

Wasn't the whole reason that we couldn't use the clawpack that it didn't cost any points? If it costs 80 - Shouldn't it be usable? I've been going by the "It doesn't cost anything, therefore it is illegal in matched play" train of thought - does it say anywhere that it can't be used? 

[TheMuphinMan]

If we were allowed to use the clawpack for 80 that would be great

220 Warlord on brood horror - general
300 Verminlord Warbringer

80 Clawpack
100 Skaven warlord
200 clanrats x40
200 clanrats x40
200 clanrats x40
500 stormvermin x40
80 ratling gunner team
60 poison wind team
60 poison wind team

194 wounds
2000/2000 points

81 attacks with each clanrat, 121 with the stormvermin (as well as another 40 attacks to  the stormvermin or whatever clanrat unit that needs the extra push). 

[treeclimber]

I would argue that if it has points in the app then it can be used in matched play. It’s not like they never clean it up - the warscrolls for the named skaven warlords were removed and skaven slaves got a new shiney one (same rules though... I think) so all the clawpacks being there seems intentional.

[Kugane]

If that clawpack is actually useable in matched play would be absolutely amazing!

Edit: Considering its not in the Warscroll Builder, I guess it is not useable.

Edit 2: I have sent GW an email to ask if its allowed for matched play. I'll paste the answer here as soon i get it.

[Mayple]

13 hours ago, Kugane said:

If that clawpack is actually useable in matched play would be absolutely amazing!

Edit: Considering its not in the Warscroll Builder, I guess it is not useable.

Edit 2: I have sent GW an email to ask if its allowed for matched play. I'll paste the answer here as soon i get it.

It not being in the warscroll builder does not determine whether it is usable or not - since the warscroll builder is a tool, and doesn't abide by the rules 100% of the time

Fingers crossed they'll give us a quick reply.

[Kugane]

3 hours ago, Mayple said:

It not being in the warscroll builder does not determine whether it is usable or not - since the warscroll builder is a tool, and doesn't abide by the rules 100% of the time

Fingers crossed they'll give us a quick reply.

No reply yet! But man will I be happy if that clawpack is allowed to be used!

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Kugane said:

No reply yet! But man will I be happy if that clawpack is allowed to be used!

Yeah it would be great, think about it using two of those battalions, and in a second or two you will now have a unit of stormvermin which make 6attacks per model??