Let's Chat: Verminus

[Mayple]

9 minutes ago, treeclimber said:

Question: How do you guys use clanrats in terms of weapon range? I've always played with 1"=base contact, 2"= can hit from row 2. But I just had a game against some plague monks and the player said they could hit with their daggers from row two! It never even occured to me that 1" range is enough to get two rows in combat when we are talking clanrat sized bases.

Is this something you actually do? I was quite annoyed by the  plague monks but maybe it's just because I was not expecting it.

A 25mm base is around 0,9'' - this means something with 1'' reach can fight in two rows. Spears can fight in THREE rows

[treeclimber]

4 minutes ago, Mayple said:

A 25mm base is around 0,9'' - this means something with 1'' reach can fight in two rows. Spears can fight in THREE rows

But! But! How? It's like a whole new world! Are you telling me that for three years I have used clanrats and stormvermin wrong? That all those times I could only get some rats in base contact the second row was actually usefull??

Is this why I never found clanrats that impressive?  This is a bigger change for me than the new edition....

...

Gotta get more rats I suppose.

[Num]

The bottom line of this thread is that there is no limit to the amount of rats you have to get

[Skreech Verminking]

30 minutes ago, treeclimber said:

But! But! How? It's like a whole new world! Are you telling me that for three years I have used clanrats and stormvermin wrong? That all those times I could only get some rats in base contact the second row was actually usefull??

Is this why I never found clanrats that impressive?  This is a bigger change for me than the new edition....

...

Gotta get more rats I suppose.

But of course, if you are a big fan of playing a horde stil army, just like me buy yourself another 500clanrats??

[TheMuphinMan]

6 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

But of course, if you are a big fan of playing a horde stil army, just like me buy yourself another 500clanrats??

Why in the world would you ever need 500 clanrats that's absurd. You should make it 520 so they can all be fully stacked units of 40

[Skreech Verminking]

6 minutes ago, TheMuphinMan said:

Why in the world would you ever need 500 clanrats that's absurd. You should make it 520 so they can all be fully stacked units of 40

???

Finally someone who understands true art 

 

[TheMuphinMan]

So I think I found the best reason to run a unit of 20 clanrats,
Allegiance: Chaos
Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)
- General
- Trait: Lord of War
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 385
 

[treeclimber]

I have a confession to make: I only own 60 clanrats. But now I want enough to field at least four units of 40. As the only real skaven player in my area (traitor plague monks were in a nurgle army) it is my duty to consume the world in a tide of vermin...

as soon as I can afford it

[treeclimber]

If 2"= 5.08 centimeters that means there are only 0.08 centimeters of leeway when trying to hit from third rank with spears... That does not feel right. As if it was not intended. But searching the internet I seem to be late to the discussion .  

Im conflicted.

[Skreech Verminking]

Hi everybody,

i will be going to a tournament soon, and I was wondering  if you guys had any tips for me 

so for hero’s i have a Deathrunner (who is also my general) with the lord of war trait and the chaos talisman.

next I got a plague priest, which just fitted into my list with his 80points

as for units:

i got 2x40rat units of clanrats(400p

a unit of 6jezzails(280p)

and 2 poisoned wind mortar teams(120p).

the idea her is to buff up my unit of jezzails twice with the lord of war, which gives them a plus 2 to hit (in other words I will be doing 2mortal wounds per shot on a 4 to hit).

the idea her is to shot the most dangerous units which can put a hurt, out of the game.

as for objectives holding, my 80inspired clanrats will happily take that kind of role .

the two poisoned wind mortar, are going to be the support role, trying to finish, what the jezzails couldn’t destroy

[Mayple]

On 5/23/2018 at 3:13 PM, Num said:

Cool! I like the 3rd and 4th more. 40 stormvernins is half the points and will require heavy baby-sitting (leaving the clanrats naked). I feel its a high risk....

On the other hand, your clanrats may be in trouble if your warlord dies...

What about

Warlord, arch warlock, 40 clanrats, 40 clanrats, 1 warp cannon, 15 gutter or another cannon?

Just a random idea to still benefit from clanrats swarm while not putting all eggs in the same basket...

Let us know, it sounds like an interesting tourney!!

Alright, so I've been wracking my brain to make the list effective. Here's what I got:

1.

Warlord, 40 clanrats, 20 clanrats, 20 clanrats, 20 gutter runners, Warplightning cannon, Warpfire thrower.

Or

2.

Warlord, 40 clanrats, 40 clanrats, 20 clanrats, 20 clanrats, 20 gutter runners, 5 gutter runners

 

Gutter runners being important for mindgames, sneaky tactics and forcing the opponent to deploy accordingly - warplightning + warpfire to serve as a detterent for big beasties charging my lines. Could potentially swap the warlord for a warlock-engineer to really hammer down on that deterrent, but I also like to be able to make my clanrats dangerous in a pinch.

 

Thoughts?

[Mayple]

On 5/24/2018 at 10:32 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

Hi everybody,

i will be going to a tournament soon, and I was wondering  if you guys had any tips for me 

so for hero’s i have a Deathrunner (who is also my general) with the lord of war trait and the chaos talisman.

next I got a plague priest, which just fitted into my list with his 80points

as for units:

i got 2x40rat units of clanrats(400p

a unit of 6jezzails(280p)

and 2 poisoned wind mortar teams(120p).

the idea her is to buff up my unit of jezzails twice with the lord of war, which gives them a plus 2 to hit (in other words I will be doing 2mortal wounds per shot on a 4 to hit).

the idea her is to shot the most dangerous units which can put a hurt, out of the game.

as for objectives holding, my 80inspired clanrats will happily take that kind of role .

the two poisoned wind mortar, are going to be the support role, trying to finish, what the jezzails couldn’t destroy

I think your list is pretty solid. Only elements I'd consider changing is swapping the mortars for two units of gutter runners. Having the option to flank/threaten objectives on their side of the map will allow your heavy snipergunline more freedom in picking their targets. With mortars, your opponent can more easily prioritize where to go (hint: right at you )

[Skreech Verminking]

Anyways here’s the skaven faction focus 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/26/26th-may-faction-focus-skavengw-homepage-post-3/

[GeneralZero]

ok I get it, clanrat are important.

But is there a way/list, a bit strong (not too bad) to play the elite stormfiends and many machines (I love their machines) and eventually a vermilord or a Thanquol & Boneripper (will drop in points)

[Kugane]

So, according to the faction focus, GW is pretty much requesting us to get a triple dose burnout painting mooooore clanrats!

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

ok I get it, clanrat are important.

But is there a way/list, a bit strong (not too bad) to play the elite stormfiends and many machines (I love their machines) and eventually a vermilord or a Thanquol & Boneripper (will drop in points)

Well, what you are looking for sounds like a Skryre army to me personally - stormfiends battleline and lots of machines. From what I can tell they do not have the intention of having Verminus be a machine heavy army. All in all, unless that is to change in the new edition, a big unit of clanrats are favourable for screening and bubble wrapping important stuff, I think that'll be even more so the case with the whole "Look out Sir!" rule

[RatOfGod]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

ok I get it, clanrat are important.

But is there a way/list, a bit strong (not too bad) to play the elite stormfiends and many machines (I love their machines) and eventually a vermilord or a Thanquol & Boneripper (will drop in points)

I'm not really sure what you're asking. The conversations here are about clanrats because this is a clan verminus thread; the stormfiends and machines you've described are all clan Skryre units, so yes, with a clan Skryre army you can take stormfiends, machines, and ally in a Verminlord or (in 2nd edition with his points reduction) Thanquol & Boneripper.

[Mayple]

I got a sneaky feeling we might be getting our 40 rat units of Stormvermin for 400 points. 

 

Calling it

[Skreech Verminking]

14 minutes ago, Mayple said:

I got a sneaky feeling we might be getting our 40 rat units of Stormvermin for 400 points. 

 

Calling it

Well that would be great ???

[Skreech Verminking]

Well I heard some rumors that, those faction focuses are focusing mostly on army’s which already have, or will have a battletome soon.

not sure if its true though 

[Kugane]

2 hours ago, Mayple said:

I got a sneaky feeling we might be getting our 40 rat units of Stormvermin for 400 points. 

 

Calling it

great excuse for me to pick up 40 stormvermin and paint them up in that case. To be fair... even at 500 points with all the buffs from heroes, they will be quite a fine unit to use.

[Mayple]

Won the tournament! Had some nice fights, and a super intense 5 round sneaky victory. Will give details in a while

[Mayple]

Alright! Here goes:

Tournament statistics:

1: Duality of death (vs Tzeentch) - Major Victory (Killed his heroes before he could score)

2. Battle for the pass (vs Seraphon) - Major Victory (12-6)

3. Starfall (vs Seraphon) - Major Victory (26-24)

4. Scorched Earth (vs Sylvaneth) - Minor Loss (We were tied, so loss on killpoints. Oversight on my part)

 

My list:

Warlord (General) - Dark Avenger - Crown of Conquest

Plague Priest w/Plague Censer

40x Clanrats

20x Clanrats

20x Clanrats

20x Gutter Runners

5x Gutter Runners

5x Gutter runners

5x Skryre Acolytes

 

 

Battle one: Duality of Death (Major Victory) - Tzeentch

 

Was very concerned about this one. The Tzeentch player had brought a Gaunt summoner, Lord of Change, a Balewind, and some other stuff I was much less concerned about (pink/blue horrors and a unit of flamers) - The Balewind was my main concern. If he got on top of it, I would have little to no way of dealing with the gaunt summoner on top, who could tear through a unit of clanrats a turn with some lucky dice, and directly threaten both of my heroes. I resigned that his Lord of Change was probably out of my Gutter Runner's league, so a sneaky stabbing would probably not amount to much unless I targeted his Gaunt Summoner. 

 

I spotted out his deployment by deploying all three gutter runner units in hiding before placing the rest of my army, giving me much more freedom in how and where I deployed most of my forces. I put both of my courageous skaven heroes inside a house, where they would sit for the rest of the game, shouting orders and planning strategy. I decided to focus my forces on the middle, so that I could react to whatever he would be doing. He finished deploying first and gave me the first turn.

TURN ONE:

With some disappointment, I realised I would not be able to assassinate his Gaunt summoner, who was having a rave amongst some pink and blue horrors in his center. His Lord of Change was completely open on his left flank, however, so I went for it. Sent two 5-man units in on his right flank to stab-tear whatever they could get their paws on, while my 20-man unit got outside of 9'' from his Lord of Change and peppered him with shurikens for some mediocre damage, like one or two. Then I got my charge off on both the 20-man unit, and one of the other units, who charged his flamers (a threat to my clanrats!) 

The gutter runners then proceeded to introduce some -change- to the old birdy, and dropped him to two wounds remaining. Flamers were dropped from three to one. 

Outside of combat, I ran everything forward, and got my plague priest running for cover and hiding out of line of sight behind a wall half-way up the map. Not my General though, risk-taking is for other, less valuable Skaven. 

 

Tzeentch's turn; He shot some spells, didn't kill nearly enough to be able to statistically survive another round of combat with the Gutter Runners, so he retreated his badly maimed Lord of Change forward - where my hungry clanrats were waiting eagerly to finish the job. Gaunt summoner did the same, but failed his run roll horribly, and simply did some jogging. His flamers tried to regenerate through some spell, but imploded instead when he rolled a one. Nice!  Large gutter runner unit pops from bravery, one unit dies, and the remaining one is at two gutter runners remaining.

TURN TWO

My turn; Clanrats kill-stabb the Lord of Change, and leave the gaunt summoner at one wound remaining. I should have moved my plague priest to capture the objective during this turn, but under-estimated my own ability to murder things. 

His turn; He balewinds, and tries to kill my warlord - but only inflicts three wounds. He concludes that he can't possibly win at this point, as all my clanrats have him surrounded, and I only need a single point to auto-win - and his pink/blue horrors are useless, so he concedes. 

 

Battle two: Battle for the Pass (Major Win) - Seraphon

I do the usual deployment mindgame/spot-out by deploying my three gutter runner units in hiding before I deploy the rest of my army. I had the bright idea that I could really mess with someone by deploying my gutter runners normally at some point, but didn't end up doing that. He finishes deploying first, he takes the first turn. I have a  heavy right flank, with a intertwined 20/20 clanrat unit split through my center and left flank, doubling up on the objective.

TURN ONE:

He's got a Carnosaur Old blood, Troglodon, Kroxigors, Cold one riders and some skinks. He moves the Troglodon and Carnosaur down his left flank, backed up by the Kroxigor. His skinks runs up and takes the objective on his right flank - I've already conceded this objective to him mentally at this point, so seeing him allocate resources to actually take it only focused my effort on sticking with my pre-planned strategy: -break- his Carnosaur, cripple his Kroxigors - Mop up everything else. His Cold-one riders stay behind to guard the objective, which turned out to be a huge mistake. He scores a point for his own objective, and two for each of the mid objectives.

My turn; 

My Gutter runners deploy behind him (all of them), and throw sixty useless shurikens at his knights, who mostly shrug it off. Then I get the charge off with the big unit, and the objective is pretty much mine at that point. My warlord and Plague priest moves forward and hides in the corner of a ruin, within 13'' of his Carnosaur. Hoping to get a double turn (at best), or a free mid-objective at worst, I run with all of my clanrat units, blocking off the center completely from his skinks, while maintaining a double-screened 40-man unit of spears ready to charge next turn. I score one point for my own objective, and four for his. 

 

TURN TWO:

I win the turn roll, and have my plague priest use his plague tome/book thing on the Carnosaur, giving everyone re-roll To-wound rolls against him. Warlord gets his Crown of Conquest off, and makes the spear-rats immune to battleshock, as well as giving them an extra attack. His Dark Avenger gives them +1 to hit in addition, against Order. Between the gutter runners throwing shurikens, skryre acolytes throwing gas bombs, gutter runners charging and stabbing, and the clanrats stabbing and murdering, his Carnosaur and Kroxigors go down, leaving his Troglodon in an awkard position. I take a point for my own objective, two points for the mid objective, and four points for his. 

 

His turn; He runs his skinks back to his objective, swarming the unit of gutter runners I have on it, and ends up conceding after killing some clanrats with his Troglodon or something. I might have finished off his Kroxigors this turn if I they weren't already dead. Memory a bit hazy on the details. He would have scored a point, so. 

 

 

Battle 3: Starstrike (Major Victory) - Seraphon

My most reccuring opponent, and the user of the dreaded Kroaknado. None of that this time, luckily; He showed up with something along the lines of: Bastiladon, Troglodon, 2 Salamanders, 3 Skink Handlers, 3x10 units of Skinks, Astrolith Bearer, and a Skink mage thing. 

This fight was INTENSE, and I had to really work to keep an early lead all the way to the end of the fifth turn. We ran out of time during the end of round three, but continued on anyway, which caught me off-guard a bit and did cause me to do some tactical blunders like placing some units in a needless defensive "just in case he tries something crazy" position in anticipation of running out of time during his turn (which we did, twenty minutes later) - Luckily I managed to squeeze every worth out of a unit of clanrats to secure the victory anyway! 

 

Deployment goes through the usual "I see you" approach with the gutter runners. I end up finishing my deployment before him, and give him the first turn.

FIRST TURN:

He does absolutely nothing of importance during his first turn, due to leaving himself wide-open to a Gutter Runner invasion if he does, except move slightly forward with his bastiladon and reducing one of my 20 clanrats to 4.  His Skink units move to completely block off any deepstriking opportunity on his side of the board, which he manages; It's not exactly an unknown maneuver to him at this point. 

My turn; My gutter runners all drop down on my left flank, throw some shurikens at some skinks. I try some sneaky improvising, because this is the only spot on the map where I can actually deploy the gutter runners and accomplish something other than getting shot off the board, and I -really- want to kill his Salamanders - I have a -very- cramped space to work with, and while I can get all of my gutter runners in there, all three units of them, I be guaranteed to block my own charges with some of the units, so instead, I deploy them like a torpedo bay. The big unit of 20 gutter runners cover most of the space, while leaving two 5-man trails open in it's center, allowing me three charge attempts where I would normally only have one. Not the smoothest technique, but it did the trick, and saved me some serious potential suffering later on. Unfortunately, all three charges fail.

My clanrats move forward and spread out across my center, half-way towards the center of the map, forming one big two-piece blob, while the 4-man clanrat unit runs off to a potential objective landing site on my side of the map, making themselves useful. My Warlord and his plague-priest underling runs into a ruin, and hugs the corner. They pretty much did this every single game, and it paid off. 

 

SECOND TURN:

First objective lands.. ON TOP OF HIS SALAMANDERS.

Luckily, I win the roll-off, and take the turn. The big 20-man gutter runner unit is close enough to the nearby terrain to be forced a mystical check, and ends up rolling a one, nice. No action for these rats. Luckily, since I had deployed them the way I did, this didn't stop the other two units from making their own movement, which would have been a disaster! They move up, and pew-pew some more skinks and lands a single wound on one of the Salamanders. 20 clanrats pull back to cover all three potential drop-spots on my side of the map (in case he gets a doubleturn), while my 40-ratspears gets buffed with inspiring+one extra attack and marches up towards the mid-objective that just landed on my left flank. They take care to leave a long line of rats behind so that my general can keep shouting orders at them and give them that juicy +1 to-hit from "Dark Avenger" 

I don't particularly remember if both my gutter runners and my clanrats managed to charge the Salamanders, but they got murdered, regardless. Two points for me.

 

His turn; 

He runs his Troglodon from his left flank to his right flank to take back the objective, and does the same with his Bastilladon. He wipes out a unit of gutter runners with some shooting.  No points.

THIRD TURN:

My objective lands in the ruins next to my warlord. His lands at his center, right on top of his Astrolith Bearer.

I win the roll again, and take the first turn. I give the clanrats both inspiring presence and +1 attack once more, and charge them at his bastiladon, who is currently sitting on a 3+ save, and his Troglodon. I land about 14-16ish wounds, and he saves everything but two. Two wounds on the bastiladon!.. Yay..? My remaining gutter runners all consolidate on the objective. The Troglodon also took some wounds from my clanrats.

This is where I do something stupid, and keep my other unit of 20-clanrats and 4-clanrats sitting where they are on my own objective, where I should have moved them forward. At that point, I knew we were running out of time, and that playing it safe and ensuring he won't pull any crazy teleportation play to steal my objective and kill my warlord was the way to go. If I had known that we were disregarding the tournament rules in this instance (it was basically the final match, point-wise, the following match wouldn't matter much) - I would have moved both clanrats forward immediately, to reinforce my lead. Instead, I had to race against time by doing it on turn 4. Ah well, kept things interesting I receive three points from the mid objective, and three points from my own.

 

His turn;

He teleports his skinks from his left flank to join his remaining right flank ones, and together they move to take back the mid-objective. His Troglodon joins the fight against the clanrats, while the bastiladon wipes out another unit of gutter runners through some shooting - leaving a measly two gutter runners remaining at the objective itself, which he avoid shooting at so his skinks has something to charge to (clever!) - His bastiladon does some decent damage to the clanrats, and I fight back against the newly joined Trogglodon instead - as he dropped a mystic shield on his Bastiladon, sitting on a 2+ save, no thank you.  The Troglodon gets killed. He charges my gutter runners and kills them.

Three points from his objective, and three from the mid objective.

We run out of time, but keep going.  

 

Turn 4:

I win the roll, take the turn.

I panick, as I realise we're still going ,and I don't have enough to hold the mid objective, everything except the warlord and 4 clanrats -runs- towards it. 20 clanrats, plague priest, and 5 Skryre Acolytes (would have been great to have them there earlier, huh? ) 

Clanrats at the point retreat from their fight with the bastiladon, and charge into the skinks on the objective, securing it (Gotta love Clanrats) - but only barely. Four points from the mid objective, four from my own.

His turn

He kills a few clanrats, but not enough to remove them outright, although he now outnumbers them. His bastiladon wipes out the Skrye acolytes and the Plague Priest (Better him than the warlord! Yes-Yes!) He charges the incoming clanrats, who I thankfully had made immune to battleshock, although no +1 attacks for them. 

Four points for him from the mid objective, four for his own.

 

Turn 5:

He wins the roll, takes the turn.

He wipes out the two remaining clanrats hugging the objective, and gives the incoming clanrats a good stomping, leaving them at five rats. 

Five points from his own, Five from the mid objective.

 

My turn:

You know what five clanrats are really good at? Retreating past his bastiladon onto his center objective, outnumbering his Astrolith bearer five to one 

Five points from my own, five for his objective. 

End result: 
26-24 and SHAKY NERVES!

 

 

Battle 4: Scorched earth (Minor Loss) - Sylvaneth

Nothing much to write about. We stared at each-other for three turns, then we ran out of time. It was very relaxing, and exactly what I needed after the previous match! I didn't realise there was a kill-point clause in the scorched earth battleplan, so I suicide-charged a unit of 20 buffed clanrats into his 3 Kurnoth hunters to see what would happen, five minutes before we ran out of time. (Hint; It involves a lot of dead rats, and no outgoing damage) Still won the tournament since it was the only minor loss there, but woah! Close call! 

[Kirjava13]

Brilliant-brilliant! Skaven inevitably triumph, yes-yes!

I love-enjoy battle reports, so four-in-one is fantastic!

[Num]

Thanks @Mayple for the great report Keep them going please, I don't have much opportunities to play verminus at the moment so I'm learning a lot from all your battle reports guys...

 

Also I somehow get the feeling that the Skaven Warlords abilities are going to get rephrased in the same way as Skritch's. From what we saw in the features, I am not sure the command abilities can stack (ie using "Gnash-gnaw on their bones" multiple times). However, Skritch's command ability has the same name as the warlords command abilities. I thus think that everyone's "Gnash-gnaw on their bones" is going to get phrased the same way as Skritch's, which makes sense with the new rules.

Wait and see...

[Mayple]

@Num I think so too. I'm a little concerned that we might have the wording changed to 'wholly within 13/18' which will mess up some of my sneakier on-the-spot tricks, which wouldn't work anymore if that happened.

Used it at the tournament as a last resort; had a unit of clanrats conga-lined back towards my warlord to gain the 'dark avenger' buff - most of the ones in combat had piled in completely, so I started removing all the rats forming the line as casualties, leaving a, single clanrat standing next to the warlord, breaking cohesion. Can't do any pile-in moves at that point, but everything in the fight was already in position, so when I got my next turn, the warlord shouted gnash-gnaw orders at the rear, brave clanrat, who relayed the order to the rest of the unit 20 inches up the board.

It was very thematic and funny. I will be sad to see it go