death Death(rattle) Battleline units?

[mmimzie]

7 hours ago, Ben said:

I've been trying to point up a Deathrattle army and the biggest thing I thought was the need for more Skellies.  Not so much a Battline tax as a main core to the army.  3x30 is a great start.

I'll currently be running 30/10/10 due to only having 50 painted.  

My list at the mo

Wight King with Infernal Standard.
30 Skeletons
10 Skeletons
10 Skeletons
30 Grave Guard
20 Black Knights
Legion of Death
Necromancer
20 Grave Guard

I'm struggling with the 80/120 gap between units.  it makes it tough to get close to 2000 and stay optimal.  

A less points efficient unit might leave you right on 2000, but swapping them out for a 'better' unit could cost 50% extra on that last war scroll.  

I'm also thinking about dropping the extra 20 Grave Guard into a summoning pool.  Maybe an 2nd Necro.  It leaves me room to summon 220 points.  That gets me 2 banshees and a wraith

Yeah the grave guard are better in units of 10 as they don't benefit from being so big

7 hours ago, Nico said:

Nice list, it's painful that you can only cast one Vanhel's Danse Macabre though.

My army solves this problem <.<..... 

Coven throne (Looks cool)

Vamp Lord (general)

Necromancer

Mortis

Corpse Cart

Zombie x30

zombie x30

zombie x30

 

For the zombies i'm kind of thinking they should be units of 40 but it doesn't really matter. In 2k points that leaves me with 680 points of summoing or 100 more zombies to summon + a unit of dire wolves.  I use the wolves and some zombies to kind of wall my opponent off to give me favorable charges. Try to get as good of a spread on my enemy's army with all the zombies then glue all my zombie units into one mega unit and buff them with +1 attack from vamp lord, Double Pile in, and +1 to hit.  Coven throne and Vamp lord hide in the swarm, and wait to get charges on vulnerable units. Necro mancer just hides. Mortis engine does it AoE from the safety of the swarm. Corpse cart dies to shooting......

[Nico]

Interesting. I'd like to see the Galrauch against that 90 model Zombro-fest.

 

 

[mmimzie]

@Nico

it's 190 after summoning at 2k points. 

[Druchiilord94]

If you have access to any tomb kings you could run archers 

[Darth Alec]

You guys are both lacking a bit of redundancy. I would consider running another hero/corpse cart. Anyone with decent shooting could pop your support units, leaving the rest much worse for wear.

 

Not actually seen much focus on that yet, but I expect people to learn it soon.

[mmimzie]

On 7/10/2016 at 10:15 AM, Darth Alec said:

You guys are both lacking a bit of redundancy. I would consider running another hero/corpse cart. Anyone with decent shooting could pop your support units, leaving the rest much worse for wear.

 

Not actually seen much focus on that yet, but I expect people to learn it soon.

this is all pretty true and i do agree with you. I've definitely been considering dropping the throne for just this change.  Replacing with another Necro and the corpse cart. The Vamp lord already has a ring of immortality so  she is basically doubled.  That said though the corpse cart and Necromancer buffs are small potatoes when you compare it to the vamp lord buff.

[Hans]

Skele need to be in the 40s to be fully effective... But pitch battle limited that to 30 only... And with 1000pts u don't really have the luxury for a good core battleline # as it down the full function of the army. 

 

I always run 3 units of 10 skele in 1k format. They are effective objective holder and sometimes awesome meat shield. Just make sure u face them against enemy without rend or keep a hero nearby especially wight King with infernal banner. 

Grave guard will always be my hammer. They are as effective as they are squishy. But with the potential of 2+ hit, 3+ wound (re-rollable, if not befuddle), having 20-80 attacks going through (+1 attack by wight King), they are a force to reckon with. Just be prepared to say bye bye to them in your opponent turns?

[mmimzie]

@Hans

Skels can be in units of 40.... i'm looking at it right here in front of my face...??? 10min 40max.

[Hans]

OMG? 

[Acid_Nine]

I love running the skellies as a unit of 30 with a vamp lord behind it. Giving them +1 attack for a potential 4 attacks each is just gravvy.

[mmimzie]

3 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

I love running the skellies as a unit of 30 with a vamp lord behind it. Giving them +1 attack for a potential 4 attacks each is just gravvy.

Vamp Lord on zombie dragon command ability would be stronger as the reroll will end up giving you something like 1.5 or 2 more attacks per skeleton depending  on what they are armed with. 

[Hans]

With a potential 2+ to hit with skele. I'll go for +1 attack and pile in twice. But I usually stack the buff on grave guard, due to rules of one for pitch.

[Stauderpower]

Unfortunately you cannot combine your zombies at the beginning of the game. The rules specifically state no spells or abilities can bring a unit above its starting size, so if each unit lost guys then you could combine them but the way it reads to me and my group interpret no combining zombies at the beginning

 

[Nico]

Sounds like another one for the FAQ. There's a difficulty where you have rules that are clearly intended to break the normal rule like this. Another example is Kroak who has a rule that is intended to override the one wizard is only able to cast spell X once per turn, but does it override the rule of one as well?

It would be a shame to remove this fluffy rule for Zombros. As for balance, you can already deploy units with as many as 60 wounds in the GH.

[mmimzie]

Hmm i'll have to look at the generals hand book again to see it for myself, but if indeed that is the case you then gotta figure out how it works.

So depending on how its all worded either:

 

you could have a 60 man units that is refilled by 10 man units

 

or

 

you would need both units be 60 mans who could only combine when both have lost 30 or more models. 

 

Though all that said i don't remember reading any such rule. Reinforment points wise it says  that only effect set up of new units, and abilities that add models to existing units aren't affected, but again that's going off memory.

 

Edit: the way i see it through the wording. They merge and become a single unit. So, i'd say their profiles would just merge together. Let say you have 25 zombies that used to be 30 zombies, and a unit of 20 zombies that started at 20 zombies. You'd merge them and they'd become a unit of 45 units with a max of 50. Or they merge can become a unit of 45 that has a new max of 45. This is all ust musing before i lawyer comb through the generals hand book. 

[mmimzie]

Yeah it says adding models to a unit, but nothing covers units merging into one unit.

 

If you think about it. When you think of it as adding models to a unit you have to do one of two things.

 

You either pick a unit as the unit that will exist in the end and then you can refill hat till you reach its max.

Or

 

Or both units are adding models to each other. Meaning they'll end up having to deal with each other's max. Meaning both units have to have space for the other. Thus you couldn't use a summoned unit of 10 to refill a unit of 60 with 50 models left as the 50 can't fit in the 10. 

 

However, keep it simple stupid. The units are merge. The only thing to do is decide do they have a new max or a combined max from the old. 

[Stauderpower]

Well I can also argue merging into a new unit is making a new unit so you have to have extra summoning points for it. My group thinks easiest is say they can merge but no unit can be bigger than the largest unit in the merge. It really needs an faq but I'm curious to see how most groups play it

[Darth Alec]

I'd imagine that since zombies don't acutally add any new models beyond their starting size, it's fair game to merge them. Merging is not raising, IMO. That's how I interprete the intention of both the "can't raise over starting size" and the zombie specific rule. Even if summoning a new unit and adding that to a starting one, you're still paying for each model.

[Hans]

for open and narrative, when a 10 merge with a 10, they become a new 20. Not one trying this with 1k pitch battle, thus no argument on it. But seems this is not raising, and you need the physical model on the table, personally, I'll let the opponent merge, if he put that amount of pts into the zombies, I don't see why not?

[Justinian]

I think 3 units of zombies will be the go to death battleline as they can combine to form a big super unit and with the deathless minions and Ruler of the Night combo they now have a 5++ save.