'Competitive' Ironjawz

[Dez]

Played again tonight, scenario for Season of War week 3 and another resounding success! I played 2000 points vs Warriors of Chaos. 

Gordrakk

Megaboss

Warchanter

Weirdnob

Brutes x10

Brutes x5

Ardboyz x10

Goregruntaz x3

 

Chaos:

Bloodthirster

Lord on Daemonic Mount

Daemon Prince (I know, 2 monsters this one didn't count)

Sorc

Chaos Lord with Banner

Chaos dude just sitting around

20ish WoC

50ish Marauders

Spawn

Blood Donkeys or whatever they are x3

Hounds x10

In a nutshell, Gordrakk jumped over a house and at a unit of Chaos knights and devoured them whole. Ardboyz rolled up and punched Warriors in the codpiece, but they had Inspiring Presence and Armor on them so they stuck around. Brutes and Goregruntaz hit the Marauders and the Marauders wished they were dead (Ironjawz Obliged). Unit of 10 Brutes didn't reach anything because hey a fully buffed unit of 10 Brutes look good sitting around.

Next round, Gordrakk gnawed the wings off the Bloodthirster and dipped them in blue cheese. Everything else pinched Gordrakk really hard on the nipples and gave him a wet willy. Round after, Gordrakk punched everyone's face off their face and that was it.

[Sangfroid]

I love it gordrakk halving wounds against him is complete filth :-) 

[Poddy]

When people are using Black orc warboss. Do you make him your general? Or does his ability work without needing to be a general

[Dr_Keenbean]

It's a Command Ability so he would need to be your general to use it.

[Dez]

We actually FORGOT to halve the wounds against targets that weren't the Bloodthirster, HA!

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning Megabosses,

I'm a bit behind on this thread, but won't start quoting posts from pages back. There's some nice lists here and I'm enjoying reading about all your experiences with the Ironjawz. Seems like on the whole, the General's Handbook has really helped us with the traits, artefacts etc. I think that's fair to say?

What I wanted to briefly touch on today was the Shaman. I've been saying for a while now that I have not been impressed by him on the table and that I was considering my options. I've found it interesting to see more and more people here expressing similar opinions.

At first I thought this may have been part down to my tendency of trying to cast Foot of Gork! I soon stopped this futile practice but was still not finding him to be worth his 120 points. Sure Mystic Shield is nice, but again it's by no means guaranteed. This is all before we mention the inevitable damage he'll inflict on your own boyz. So yeh, overall, not feeling him!

Now we could say his cost is expensive, which lets be honest it is, however in dropping him I think it's pretty tough to make full use of those 120 points. The simplest options (without changing around anything else in your list) is to replace him for a Warchanter. This is a solid choice and probably what I will go with in the first instance. His buff is amazing and more importantly, is guaranteed. The other option is the Black Orc Big Boss (or Ardnob as I like to call him - lets AoS him up and make that a thing!), who on paper seems super cool. I am yet to try him in practice, but will be doing so soon. My only reservation is that he really needs to be the General to get maximum effect from him.

I said above you don't get "full use" of the points, being that you'd have 40 or 20 spare (depending on which of the above choices you go for). However it's worth stating that having a list that comes in under 2,000 points might not be a bad thing as you may get a roll on the Triumph table, which could prove to be super useful. So that's also worth consideration.

What above going further and removing him plus a unit to free up more points? What can you do with 300 points? A second Megaboss (or an Ardnob) and 2 more Warchanters?! You lose bodies, but it does give you a really hitty character (either way) and two more great buffs. This option seems solid to me. I'm liking it the more I type about it!!

Anyway, nothing that in-depth there, just some brief thoughts. Let me know what you think!

Chris

[LordDrakonus]

Well @Chris Tomlin I droped the shaman and gordrakk down to a regular MawCrusher and added a 3rd unit of goregruntas with the gorefist. Had a game last night and it worked amazing! Played places of power and I was able to grab all 3 objectives smash one flank with the  combined power or 3 units of goregruntas feed my poor brutes into the wrath mongers grinder and hold the other flank with Ard Boyz. I will paint my shaman for points for the campaignbut probably never use him unless it's for laughs.

[Leonhart040]

WAAAAAGHi everyone! I've been following this post with interest and now it's time to write something. I've started playing ironjawz a few weeks before the campaing started and after 8 -9 games I've come to some conclusions.

1.- The shaman is overrated. As Chris Tomlin said, I feel it's too expensive for a unit that can kill your own miniatures.

2.- I'm not sure Gore-gruntas are worth, they die the same as brutes, the only difference being their movement.

3.- Gordrakk is mandatory in a 2.000 point list, each time I've played him I've reached the other's army on the first turn, and those 2 aditional attacks...marvelous.

4.- I don't find any other use to Ardboys other than expendable units to charge and keep the enemy locked in combat. Unless you use them with a shaman...

5.- I preffer brute choppas over gore-hackas on brutes. That extra inch does not work the same as an aditional attack, specially if you buff them with a megaboss and/or a warchanter. Still, gore-chopas are mandatory each 5 miniatures.

Last play was one for round 3 of the campaing, and Gordrakk did great agains othner monsters, specially those with the word Hero and/or wizard. Chop-chop, OMNOMNOM!
Now I want to maximize the amount of brutes (I love them) and I've come with this list:

Gordrakk 700

Megaboss 140

Megaboss 140

Warchanter 80

Warchanter 80

10x Brutes 360
7x brute- choppas, 2x gore-choppas, 1x boss klaw + smasha

10x Brutes 360
7x brute- choppas, 2x gore-choppas, 1x boss klaw + smasha

Ironfist 60

TOTAL 1920

A Megaboss and a warchanter will join each group of brutes, Gordrakk on a side of the battlefield. I still have to try it, but 20 buffed brutes and Gordrakk (and 2 megabosses) seems a pretty scary army.

Thoughts?

PD: Spanish gamer here, sorry for language mistakes. Oi!

[Dez]

I'd put another Warchanter in there, their buffs stack...but I think you need another Battleline.

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey there @Leonhart040

Welcome to this awesome section of the TGA forums! Thanks for posting your thoughts, I'll reply to the individual points a little later when I have more time.

Unfortunately though, your list is illegal as you only have 2 units in your Ironfist, when the requirement is 3-5.

Also, if it is designed as matched play (and not "points only") then it has a further issue in that you only have 2 Battleline units (as mentioned by @Dez).

Both issues are easily remedied by splitting one of the units of 10 Brutes down into 2 5's.

[Leonhart040]

Hmmm you are both right, I need to split them. That's not that bad, I can have another boss with klaw. That makes me wonder, what if I split both units? This way I would have 4 units, added to the number of heroes would buff the megaboss hability.

Waiting for your replies

[Dez]

I think it will work, and you have points for another Warchanter

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey @Leonhart040,

Yes I agree with @Dez, this will work. Usually I would be a little adverse to so many smaller units as it's harder to make the most of your buffs. However, with 3 Warchanters (you have 80pts spare, its a no brainer bro! ) and no Weirdnob, to worry about maximising Mystic Shield's effects, there is certainly no harm in doing this as you can put out the buffs where you need them. Which of course could be characters and not just the Brutes.

I would actually consider dropping one Megaboss for an Ardnob (Black Orc Big Boss from the O&G Compendium), his command ability could be great on MSU brutes....although you do have Gordrakk I see, so perhaps not.

I'd delete that comment, but it may be of interest to someone else. In fact I've just got a little excited thinking about this;

Ardnob 100 (General)100+

Cabbage 520

Megaboss 140

3x Warchanter 3x80 (240)

Ironfist 60

5x5 Brutes 5x180 (900)

TOTAL: 1,960

Seems pretty fun! Also with 40pts spare you may get a triumph here and there.

You could take it further and go full Brute MSU by dropping the Cabbage, which gives you 2x Brutes and 2x Warchanters!! You still have the 4 points spare so could swap one of the Warchanters for another Ardnob (he's a mini tank so not bad) or a Shaman (don't see him doing much for you here).

I reckon you'll be able to pick up Warchanters pretty cheap thanks to the Start Collecting box so obtaining 5 isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. Urgh, I think this is actually pretty alright!! Wanna try it out now!

[N_Watson]

Still to get a 2k game in as everyone at my store all started AOS at the same time. 

Managed a 1.5k game with Gordrakk yesterday against a chaos army. 

Went surprisingly well. I thought I would struggle with the objective (gift from the heavens) but won 14 vp to 12vp in the end of turn 5. 

Gordrakk deleted the right flank killing 3 skull crushers, a demon prince, 10 chaos warriors and a chaos Gargant, before it fell on him and killed him with a lucky wound roll. 

The rest of my army was a Megaboss and Warchanter and 3 units of brutes. I held my objective from turn two with my megaboss as he took 5 wounds turn one from a blood boil. My opponent, in his haste to fight gordrakk left his objective unattended on turn two. I think Gordrakk just makes people do silly things because he is that scary on the charge. 

My plans to bump this up to 2k with the games I have had are as follows. 

Gordrakk (General if I want to use Voice of Gork)

Megaboss (General if I want Ravager or Bellowing Tyrant. Talisman of Protection)

Megaboss (Battlebrew) 

Warchanter 

10× Brutes 2inch.           }

5× Brutes 1inch  (deathstar blob)

5× Brutes 1inch              }

3× Gore Gruntas 1inch (support for Gordrakk or my deathstar)

Ironfist

This takes me to 2020. (Battle report in the generals handbook was a 2040 point stormcast army so I think that would be fine?) 

I have settled on 20 brutes and 2 Megaboss as my core as these just kill like there is no tomorrow and I just love Gordrakk. I have so much fun playing him. He is a beast.

I think having a unit of gore gruntas that can offer support if he goes too deep would be good with the impenetrable deathball of brutes rerolling 1s to hit and a potential of 2 units having +1 to hit from Bellowing Tyrant and warchant buffs to be pretty decent. 

The best thing though is I don't need to paint any ardboys....

[Dez]

The Gargant falling on Gordrakk is such an epic, cinematic gaming moment I LOVE IT!

I've been loving the unit of 10 Brutes with Inspiring Presence and Warchanter Buff. They need IP though, especially if it becomes a prolonged combat.

Something else I started thinking about in the wee hours trying to fall asleep: Max Unit Ardboyz. It would be great for board control, and that's 60 4+ wounds to chew threw. Buffed my a Megaboss and Warchanter I think they'd be pretty concerning. Take 2 units of them, and you are looking at some great board control in most scenarios.

[Chris Tomlin]

20 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

This takes me to 2020. (Battle report in the generals handbook was a 2040 point stormcast army so I think that would be fine?) 

If you've agreed/arranged to play a 2,000pt game, turning up with 2,020 will unfortunately not be acceptable in most instances.

However, you may of course find that your group agrees to allow such things, but in general "Matched Play", this kinda goes against the point of it!

Keep the reports coming though.

@Dez - Sounds good man...painting 60 Arduous Boyz on the other hand, not so much!  

[N_Watson]

1 minute ago, Chris Tomlin said:

If you've agreed/arranged to play a 2,000pt game, turning up with 2,020 will unfortunately not be acceptable in most instances.

 

This is what I find strange. The rule book gives an example of matched play in the matched play section with one army having 2040 and the other having 1980. If there is no way to be 20 points over but you get a bonus for being 20 points under, I would say we have a problem. The aim will be to get just under so that you are not at a disadvantage and get a once per battle bonus. 

I would say that it is more tournament organisers that would put this in place as the rules show that you can be slightly over the points. 

[Chris Tomlin]

2 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

If there is no way to be 20 points over but you get a bonus for being 20 points under, I would say we have a problem. The aim will be to get just under so that you are not at a disadvantage and get a once per battle bonus.  

I wouldn't say that's a problem at all. In fact there is an interesting thread in another section of this forum about building your list to under the allocated value to try and ensure the Triumph roll. I kinda see it as a reason to not get upset about "wasting" points, many lists I build come in around ~40pts under.

I also don't think it's specifically down to TO's*. The onus is on whoever playing to agree a points value to play. Perhaps some groups will say 2,050 to allow themselves a cushion for going slightly over.

I'll have to check my GH when I get home to see if they specifically claim to be playing a 2,000 point game. If they do, then I can certainly see your point!!! I expect they don't though, which is pretty irresponsible and misleading I'd suggest.

Definitely an interesting conversation though and I am interested to hear how different groups go about this. This forum has been group at merging casual players, GW store players, tournament players etc etc from different countries/scenes all together.

* I can say, with 99% assuredness, that all 2,000 point Tournaments will not allow armies to be a point over that.

[N_Watson]

There is two parts that are contradictory. On one page it says " the points shown on the chart above should not exceeded" and then in the battle report it says " As you can see, both armies have been put together to a guideline of 2000 points. The demon army's total is less than 2000, so the demon player rolls on the triumph table"  

I can just swap the general from a Megaboss to a Ardboys Boss to be 1980, just seems strange that they would make it so damn hard to hit 2000 lol. 

[Sangfroid]

So The rise of Ardnobz becoming a thing....... Sounds like a interesting film title!

In general I would say not to use him as you general, battle shock is a frustration but most lists should have 6-8 "units" and so even just 1 extra attack on all of them will outweigh the loss of a brute or 2 and to win ironjawz need to pound face as fast as possible so the enemy then has less to push back with and score or is just so overwhelemed they cannot recover. I think in almost all circumstances the megaboss or gordrakks ability is better (imo of course)

 

Ive been using Ardnobs all the way up until ironjawz were released, I usually had 2 and grimgor as the general (or a orruks war boss for +1 attack) they used to buff up black orcs and so each one escorted a block of 10 ardboyz. Also if kept close to each other they buff each other down to 2+ to hit.  I had one kill skaarac bloodborn at new dawn 4 attacks hit all wounded and he failed all 4 6+ saves (rend -2 is very impressive) 10 wounds off the 4 d3 and Rotgor Skargut was immortalised (he has since grown into a megaboss). Lucky rolls maybe but the point is I used them to great effect sneaking into the edges of combats with ardboyz and their reliable damage output tag teams brilliantly with ardboyz. (Even more so now the have been made worse under their new ironjawz scroll). The main problem with making them your general and relying on the battle shock immunity is that a canny opponent will spot this and they aren't exactly that difficult to kill (3 d3 mortal wounds on average will kill em) 

 

slaughta choppas: with potentially 3/4/5a hitting on 2s 3s to wound -2 rend for 100pts. They will get over looked often by enemies and even if they don't they are shooting these then they aren't shooting the brutes or mega boss or warchanters. A really small footprint (40mm base) and these guys could make the difference in the front lines with the ardboyz

 

2 choppas: 2x warchanter buffs they could be gaining an extra attack on a 3+ (if close to Another orruk character) and have potentially 8a to begin with (9-13 attack spread there) so great offensive unit or perfect to hold back to protect a warchanter or just sit on objective with a unit of ardboyz. Also a great "chaff" unit charge them into the corner or flank of a spread out unit and they "should"survive the attacks back from most enemies while dishing out some hurt and stopping a unit in its tracks (to be fair this applies to all Ardnobz)

Tuskar Shield: I think is the inferior choice but if you can get them into a unit that has no rend you need around 20 wounds on average caused to you to kill one, so they could be great as speed bumps in the right place and against the right troops they hit hard back too 

overall I prefer them with the slaughta choppa and not as the general and can see me taking one where tourneys allow it to sit next to the warchanter and ardboyz (leaving megaboss to sit with brutes) plus with the slaughta choppa you don't need to waste the war chanter buff on them as they will be 2+ to hit anyway if close to a character. 

however as a wider discussion is 2 Ardnobz better at 200pts than 10 Ardboyz in certain lists maybe? 2 x 2choppa and nobz With just with a warchanter buff each close together with megaboss +1 attack are going to average 21a (16 hits, 10 wounds @-1 rend.) nasty shock for an unsuspecting enemy, but like I said above if they are canny and kill off the ardboyz they are not then attacking our more valuable troops 

in summary, death dealers alongside ardboyz, chaff or warchanter bodyguards that's how I reckon these guys could be used to best effect.

[Chris Tomlin]

Great Ardnob summary @Sangfroid - I used one in my last game as my General but tbh didn't use his command ability once. I went for the Slaughta Choppa, and he smashed up some Saurus Guard big time, before helping out finish off some Kroxigor!

Great model for 100pts IMO.

[Garxia]

Couple of silly questions Megabosses:

- When a Mebaboss uses his Waaaagh! command ability, does he count himself and any in range single model (Weirdnobs, Warchanters...) as an Ironjawz Unit for the ability?

- If yes to the above, isn't the Weirdnob always the closest unit when casting doubles and should always hit himself?

[Dez]

LOL Yes page 6 of the FAQ. Wow, you may have figured out a way to make the Weirdnob even...less desirable. Now I don't think that's the intent of the rule, but it's RAW.

[LordDrakonus]

So had a game over the weekend with a mixed durian and stormcrutch list. Using my current list of no gordrakk and using the gorefist. It worked amazing with the 15 move on the pigs I was able to silence his artillery t1.

[Dez]

Had a game this weekend too, Week3 Season of War scenario. Put da boot to dem no good Pointy Eared gitz again!

Now granted, this is my opponents only experience with Age of Sigmar, he thinks the Ironjawz are SUPER powerful. I'm inclined to agree somewhat, given how fast they can move. I got some hot rolls, and I think I averaged 15 inch moves (Rolled tons of 6's and we were using the abilities for that week).