Let's Chat: Ironweld Arsenal

[Lightbox]

19 minutes ago, oscisi said:

My main comment on this is list is that you seem to have an even worse case of what I was suffering from in my two games: you don't really have anything fast that can go and snatch objectives. Is your Freeguild General on a horse? But even if he is I wouldn't say it's optimal to send him nor the Celestial Hurricanum off to potentially dangerous places to hold objectives. In some cases you need more than one model to have a real chance of keeping the objective anyway. Prosecutors could be something worth considering since you already have your eyes on Stormcast Eternals. I guess you could consider adding the Steam Tank simply to gain more mobility, even though it's annoying with a random movement characteristic. I love your artillery battery though!

 

Out of these the second one looks more competitive to me. I would only consider the first one if you are able to change your Freeguild General for a Lord-Ordinator. It seriously makes your artillery WAY more deadly. And since you guys share buffs you could place the Ordinator so that his bubble touches any war machines your friend might be bringing. Good luck on your game!

My friend was considering taking a lord ordinator as his general to help his cannon and my list but I may pick up one myself since actually I may wish to do some heavy ironweld lists at times as opposed to just bringing them as allies. (because who doesn't like big cannons?) 

 

I'll have a chat with the other two though and see which of those two list ideas would be a good shout.

 

Cheers for the shout on the lord ordinator instead of general for the first one. I've considered trying to drop the griffon general but I'm not sure I want to lose out on a fast scary beatstick against khorne as without him I have no mobility if we end up with an objective based scenario.

 

I've also got the possibility to borrow a second cannon off one of those friends or kitbash up a helstorm (I really enjoy my kitbashes) if it might be considered best to grab a lord ordinator and greywater fastness and really go all out on the artillery with other points for meatshields mostly.

[Dragobeth]

55 minutes ago, oscisi said:

My main comment on this is list is that you seem to have an even worse case of what I was suffering from in my two games: you don't really have anything fast that can go and snatch objectives. Is your Freeguild General on a horse? But even if he is I wouldn't say it's optimal to send him nor the Celestial Hurricanum off to potentially dangerous places to hold objectives. In some cases you need more than one model to have a real chance of keeping the objective anyway. Prosecutors could be something worth considering since you already have your eyes on Stormcast Eternals. I guess you could consider adding the Steam Tank simply to gain more mobility, even though it's annoying with a random movement characteristic. I love your artillery battery though!

Yes, my list is horrible in games with point capture mechanics, the only way for me is to destroy anything that gets near a point with my artillery and then go and capture the point with anything that still lives from my freepeople units.

I was thinking about taking some wanderers for more more movement in general but it don't really "goes" with my city for now (I like to give a fluff reason for each unit, sometimes I give even names to each mini just for fun) so my option could be:

-Reduce the unit size from my freeguild and add some Outriders/Pistoliers

-Take out the Hurricanum and get used to don't have that +1 and add some Outriders/Pistoliers and a battlemage

My problem with the second option is that my Hurricanum is a good way to get some mortal wounds and that juicy +1 is great but I'm not sure if it's really worth it at 380 instead of adding faster units for point capture. 380 points could give me 2 units of Vanguard-Hunters with their astral compass-movement shenanigans or some Prosecutors too.

[oscisi]

51 minutes ago, Lightbox said:

My friend was considering taking a lord ordinator as his general to help his cannon and my list but I may pick up one myself since actually I may wish to do some heavy ironweld lists at times as opposed to just bringing them as allies. (because who doesn't like big cannons?) 

...

I've also got the possibility to borrow a second cannon off one of those friends or kitbash up a helstorm (I really enjoy my kitbashes) if it might be considered best to grab a lord ordinator and greywater fastness and really go all out on the artillery with other points for meatshields mostly.

Sorry my bad, I read through your lists so many times that I forgot you had said you friend would bring an ordinator.

Regarding artillery: to get the most out of your heroes that buff them you should bring two for a 1000 point game and four for a 2000 point game. In my 1500 point list I brought 3, which keeps within that ratio as well (although I wasn't thinking about that while making the list).

15 minutes ago, Dragobeth said:

-Take out the Hurricanum and get used to don't have that +1 and add some Outriders/Pistoliers and a battlemage

My problem with the second option is that my Hurricanum is a good way to get some mortal wounds and that juicy +1 is great but I'm not sure if it's really worth it at 380 instead of adding faster units for point capture. 380 points could give me 2 units of Vanguard-Hunters with their astral compass-movement shenanigans or some Prosecutors too.

How about some Vanguard-Palladors? I don't know how good they are because I've never seen them in play, but the models look awesome, so for me that's already a strong reason to consider them!

Cheers

[Dragobeth]

Hello all!

During this weekend I tried some changes on my list. Taking advantage from my Firestorm City I was able to use some Wanderers so I tried something new:

Allegiance: Greywater Fastness

Leaders
Gunmaster (80)
Gunmaster (80)
Lord-Ordinator (100)
- General
- Trait: Strategic Genius
Lord-Castellant (100)
Battlemage (100)
- Specialisation: Jade
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
30 x Freeguild Handgunners (300)

Units
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)
5 x Wild Riders (140)
5 x Wild Riders (140)

War Machines
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)
Helblaster Volley Gun (120)
Helblaster Volley Gun (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

 

I have to say, I miss the Hurricanum but those 380 points are a lot of room for more helpfull units like the Wild Riders. I tried too some changes on my battlelines, 30 Handgunners so I don't loose the 20+minis bonus and swap Free People Guard for some Liberators  and a Castellant (with his gryph-hound) to help them out. Overall, those changes gave me the speed I need and some consistency on my battlelines.

I din't try the Paladors, I like the models (and I use them on my Vanguard list) but... that point cost is...the worst part (I could bring 2 units of prosecutors for that many  points)

As always, I don't know if my list could be considered competitive since my game group is more about friendly & narrative play (that's why I did make my own city for my army)
 

[MacDuff]

Why the Wild Riders? Sisters of the Thorn could grab objectives but also bring magic and a defense buff. (I'm painting some right now, so I'm biased.)

[Dragobeth]

2 hours ago, MacDuff said:

Why the Wild Riders? Sisters of the Thorn could grab objectives but also bring magic and a defense buff. (I'm painting some right now, so I'm biased.)

That's an option that I want to try, but I didn't have time this weekend (I love those models, I'll end up buying them, I know).

Are they worth it at 220 pts? I know they could be my second mage (second unbind, mysthic shield) but for that cost I could only bring one of them, having two units of Wild Riders gave me some chance of taking two objetives early.

 

P.S: Should I make a "Let's chat: Deepwaters" or other type of topic? Now that I think of it, talking about a Firestorm City's list here could be offtopic

[oscisi]

21 hours ago, Dragobeth said:

I have to say, I miss the Hurricanum but those 380 points are a lot of room for more helpfull units like the Wild Riders. I tried too some changes on my battlelines, 30 Handgunners so I don't loose the 20+minis bonus and swap Free People Guard for some Liberators  and a Castellant (with his gryph-hound) to help them out. Overall, those changes gave me the speed I need and some consistency on my battlelines.

I din't try the Paladors, I like the models (and I use them on my Vanguard list) but... that point cost is...the worst part (I could bring 2 units of prosecutors for that many  points)

As always, I don't know if my list could be considered competitive since my game group is more about friendly & narrative play (that's why I did make my own city for my army)

I like your new list a lot and also agree that going for cheap and fast unit is the right way. In many cases you want as many models as possible at the objective. I am actually considering on unit of 3 Prosecutors for my next game that will be tomorrow or possibly next week. The only thing I might consider with your list is to take away one or two weak heroes and add one that is either stronger, faster or both. Right now you would possibly suffer a bit if you were playing Duality of Death or other similar scenarios. Not that I have any lists going that does that any better..

12 hours ago, Dragobeth said:

P.S: Should I make a "Let's chat: Deepwaters" or other type of topic? Now that I think of it, talking about a Firestorm City's list here could be offtopic

What is Deepwaters? I only know of Deepkin and Greywater Fastness  But on that note I definitely do not think it is off-topic to talk about the cities since they can be of help to and order army that doesn't have any allegiance abilities going for it (read Ironweld Arenal).

 

So to throw some list suggestions out there myself. The way I am constructing my army for my coming games is with a base list of 920 points that I will use for certain, and then I have three different modules or alternatives that I can add on to make the list a complete 1500 points. Please let me know if you think I should use add-on 1, 2, 3 or if you think I need to consider a fourth option.

Base:

1 x Lord-Ordinator, General (Strategic Genious) 100p

1 x Cogsmith 80p

10 x Dwarf Warriors (Axes and Shields) 80p

10 x Longbeards (Ancestral Great Axes) 120p

1 x Grudge Thrower 180p

1 x Cannon 180p

1 x Organ Gun 120p

1 x Gryph-Hound 40p

Total: 920 points

 

Thunderer option:

1 x Warden King (Phoenix Stone) 120p

1 x Warden King 120p

5 x Liberators (Warhammers and Shields) 100p

20 x Thunderers with Bucklers 240p

Total: 580 points

 

Prosecutor option:

1 x Unforged (Phoenix Stone) 100p

1 x Warden King 120p

10 x Longbeards (Axes and Gromril Shields) 120p

5 x Liberators (Warhammers and Shields) 100p

3 x Prosecutors (Twin Ancestral Hammers) 100p

1 x Gryph-Hound 40p

Total: 580 points

 

Kharadron option:

1 x Unforged 100p

1 x Aether-Khemist (Phoenix Stone) 140p

20 x Arkanaut Company (6 x Aethermatic Volley Gun)

3 x Skywardens with one Grapnel Launcher 100p

Total: 580 points

 

TL;DR made 3 different 580 point add-ons to my base list and need feedback on which (if any) to go for.

[Dragobeth]

8 hours ago, oscisi said:

I like your new list a lot and also agree that going for cheap and fast unit is the right way. In many cases you want as many models as possible at the objective. I am actually considering on unit of 3 Prosecutors for my next game that will be tomorrow or possibly next week. The only thing I might consider with your list is to take away one or two weak heroes and add one that is either stronger, faster or both. Right now you would possibly suffer a bit if you were playing Duality of Death or other similar scenarios. Not that I have any lists going that does that any better..

What is Deepwaters? I only know of Deepkin and Greywater Fastness  But on that note I definitely do not think it is off-topic to talk about the cities since they can be of help to and order army that doesn't have any allegiance abilities going for it (read Ironweld Arenal).

Hahahaha, sorry, sometimes I don't even know what I write.

About the hero topic, do you have any recommendation for that? I use to have one for each faction that I use on my list (didn't have points for a Wanderers one) to help my units, Maybe dropping the Castellant and the Hound since Liberators are good even alone, that could give me 140 points for a hero or even drop my Freeguild General for another 100 points, he is there just for the banner to help the handgunners. The only "mandatory" heroes on my list are Ordinator and (maybe)  Gunmasters.

8 hours ago, oscisi said:

Kharadron option:

1 x Unforged 100p

1 x Aether-Khemist (Phoenix Stone) 140p

20 x Arkanaut Company (6 x Aethermatic Volley Gun)

3 x Skywardens with one Grapnel Launcher 100p

Total: 580 points

I like this one, I could even think of swaping the Unforged for other 3 Skywardens if you have the minis but one unit of Skywardens can give you a good mobility and you can buff them with the Khemist if needed irc

 

[Lightbox]

Well I had my 3v3 game yesterday and after an incredibly brutal massacre on both sides we ended up just losing it at the end (Tbh we did well considering the scenario much favoured the khorne armies playstyle). Though I think the sheer sting of my cannons has left a bitter taste in some of their mouths meaning in the 1500 point game everyone's likely to bring serious lists. I know my usual opponent has vowed to bring out Mazarral the butcher

So all in all the guns performed admirably and dear god gunsmiths and lord ordinators really really buff them. Now I just need to plan out my 1500 point list. The general of Griffon will make it to that one too though as for 260 points he did amazingly well, cutting through the khorne lines and keeping them distracted. I'll be writing a full batrep up on my blog later. But figured you guys would want to know that guns vs khorne goes swimmingly*  

 

 

*(Until a bloodthirster charges your cannon placement)

[oscisi]

3 hours ago, Dragobeth said:

About the hero topic, do you have any recommendation for that? 

...

I like this one, I could even think of swaping the Unforged for other 3 Skywardens if you have the minis but one unit of Skywardens can give you a good mobility and you can buff them with the Khemist if needed irc

Drop the Lord-Castellant and the Battlemage. Instead add the Lord-Celestant on Dracoth with either of the two hammer options. Fast and packs a serious punch. Plus your list will make use of the last 20 points that would have been wasted otherwise 

 

Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately I just always end up running out of points. I can't drop the Unforged because that would leave me totally screwed in duality of death since I would only have 3 support heroes to my name. But yeah, the Skywardens have a lot of potential. I will keep them in the back together with the Gryph-hound, possibly able to block summoning, and then shoot them across the board at the right moment! The Grapnel Launcher is of course perfect for doing that. I'll get back to you on how it works out!

2 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Well I had my 3v3 game yesterday and after an incredibly brutal massacre on both sides we ended up just losing it at the end (Tbh we did well considering the scenario much favoured the khorne armies playstyle). Though I think the sheer sting of my cannons has left a bitter taste in some of their mouths meaning in the 1500 point game everyone's likely to bring serious lists. I know my usual opponent has vowed to bring out Mazarral the butcher

So all in all the guns performed admirably and dear god gunsmiths and lord ordinators really really buff them. Now I just need to plan out my 1500 point list. The general of Griffon will make it to that one too though as for 260 points he did amazingly well, cutting through the khorne lines and keeping them distracted. I'll be writing a full batrep up on my blog later. But figured you guys would want to know that guns vs khorne goes swimmingly*  

 

 

*(Until a bloodthirster charges your cannon placement)

Glad to hear your artillery  preformed! 

Please post a link to your battle report when it's done. Would love to read it!

[Lightbox]

41 minutes ago, oscisi said:

Glad to hear your artillery  preformed! 

Please post a link to your battle report when it's done. Would love to read it!

I'll be sure to

 

On a more productive note I'm unsure how to proceed to 1500 points. I'm thinking a hurricanum or luminark to grant more buffs to my teammates and have something extra to help take down the no doubt scary monsters that will be brought. I'm presuming upping my guard unit to 30/40 or having two units of 20 would be a good shout? I'm also thinking adding in a second cannon or a helstorm rocket. It's that or I instead see how well artillery plays alongside DoK snake ladies.

[Zetsu20]

if play allegiance Order .I like celestial Hurricanum 

+1 hit roll for any Order unit within range was very very good.

[Lightbox]

4 hours ago, Zetsu20 said:

if play allegiance Order .I like celestial Hurricanum 

+1 hit roll for any Order unit within range was very very good.

Mmm agreed. Combo that with a lord ordinator and 2+ to hit cannons are a funny idea. My only worry is it's a fair few points for 1500. But then again buffing teammates too would be very nice.

 

I presume due to it's range you generally need to castle up around it to get everyone in range?

[Thankee]

I played many games with this list and came 8th place in Swedens biggest tournament (not most competetive though)

Hurricanum

Ordinator general

 

40x freeguild guard

10x fgg

10x fgg

 

4x rocket battery

1x steam tank

1x gyrocopter

 

Greywater Fastness alligence

[Dragobeth]

On 3/5/2018 at 5:44 PM, Lightbox said:

Mmm agreed. Combo that with a lord ordinator and 2+ to hit cannons are a funny idea. My only worry is it's a fair few points for 1500. But then again buffing teammates too would be very nice.

 

I presume due to it's range you generally need to castle up around it to get everyone in range?

Yes, I used to play with Hurricanum and normally you create a blob of artillery around it with Ordinator and cogsmith/gunmaster near the machines for the bonus. Not sure if it's worth it at 1500 points, I just drop it at 2000 so I could have more units. On a side note, cannons +2 to hit are GREAT, I miss them on my new list.

 

11 hours ago, Thankee said:

I played many games with this list and came 8th place in Swedens biggest tournament (not most competetive though)

Hurricanum

Ordinator general

 

40x freeguild guard

10x fgg

10x fgg

 

4x rocket battery

1x steam tank

1x gyrocopter

 

Greywater Fastness alligence

Could you tell us how do you use the tank? I like the model but I'm not sure what to do with it half the games I used it.

[Thankee]

I usually throw a mystic shield on it turn one. Overboil it and go to town. Hold down their most dangerous melee monster in melee while it snipes down small hp characters or the 1hp left monsters. I dont want to use my rockets on those. The steam tank usually does a good job at that. It's also tanky (no pun intended) with it's 2+ save and 4+ heal.

Also! It can hold objectives in certain matched play missions!

[Broken Netcode]

On 5/6/2018 at 9:27 PM, Thankee said:

I played many games with this list and came 8th place in Swedens biggest tournament (not most competetive though)

Hurricanum

Ordinator general

 

40x freeguild guard

10x fgg

10x fgg

 

4x rocket battery

1x steam tank

1x gyrocopter

 

Greywater Fastness alligence

Isn't the list illegal? The steam tank and gyrocopter are both warmachines so you'd have 6/4 of your warmachine slot.

[stato]

15 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

Isn't the list illegal? The steam tank and gyrocopter are both warmachines so you'd have 6/4 of your warmachine slot.

The slot is for Artillery, and the Steamtank is a Behemoth and the gyrocopter is neither.

[Broken Netcode]

On 5/9/2018 at 12:00 PM, stato said:

The slot is for Artillery, and the Steamtank is a Behemoth and the gyrocopter is neither.

Well colour me shocked! I never actually checked the GHB17 and went straight to Warscroll Builder. This opens up so many new avenues for my army, thanks!

[oscisi]

No more shooting out of combat, guys! Starting in June we'll have to be even more careful not to leave our artillery pieces out in the open.

[Thankee]

17 hours ago, oscisi said:

No more shooting out of combat, guys! Starting in June we'll have to be even more careful not to leave our artillery pieces out in the open.

Nothings changed for our army really. Except it's harder for our opponents to snipe our crew if we charge.

[Double Misfire]

I'm banking on revised rules that make artillery crew harder to kill. If Stormcast are getting crewed artillery comparable to ours there's no it's getting shot out by anything able to chip four wounds off.

 

Also new Lord-Ordinator with a bigger hammer (on the right). With non general heroes being able to use command abilities (presumably at the cost of command points) I'm quite chipper about the new edition. ?

[Dragobeth]

We could get rid of the Ordinator MUST BE  general.

What do you think about that change in the rules about shooting in combat? 

[Double Misfire]

6 hours ago, Dragobeth said:

We could get rid of the Ordinator MUST BE  general.

What do you think about that change in the rules about shooting in combat? 

If an artillery piece gets charged, chances are it or it's crew are gonna be dead by the time you get at chance to shoot with it. Don't let your artillery get charged kids!

Being able to still shoot at units that have engaged you would be nice for Steam Tanks mind.  

[oscisi]

Hmmmm.. This basically makes it harder for us to hero snipe while still not protecting us from our real enemy: Magic that deals mortal wounds.