Is Deathrattle even worth to start collecting anymore?

[Kugane]

With pieces like Settra being most likely nerfed in GHBII, and added to that the ongoing rise of filth lists (shooty glass cannon builds, tanky trees, etc), I'm wondering if its even worth starting a Deathrattle army at all at this point? I was considering to explore and start collecting Death the coming months, but everything seems quite underwhelming? Or am I missing something?

[Sception]

I honestly don't think competitive Age of Sigmar is worth thinking about, much less spending money on, until after we see how the general's handbook 2 shakes out.  Maybe we'll be nerfed to hell.  Maybe other things will be nerfed worse.  Maybe there will be a bunch of changes to the matched play rules making them more like LotR (max percentage of models with shooting attacks) or 40k 8th edition (no shooting characters unless they're the closest enemy or have 10+ wounds - which would be huge for settra - or no shooting at engaged enemies or by engaged units which would be huge for us in general).  Or maybe it will add alliance level spell lores the way GHI added alliance level items and command traits, which would be huge for Arkhan and Nagash.  Or maybe it will be the same as it is now, only our handful of good (if admittedly underpriced under the previous book) units being nerfed, and Death just won't be played for a while.

Who knows?  IMO, there's just too much up in the air to get worked up about the game on the competitive level.  That said, if you play casual there's plenty of reason to get into Deathrattle.  IMO they're the best models in faction, the infantry is pretty good so you can run an army that feels like an army, and they're the most likely to get new stuff this year, whether in terms of models or battle tomes.

[TheOtherJosh]

With pieces like Settra being most likely nerfed in GHBII, and added to that the ongoing rise of filth lists (shooty glass cannon builds, tanky trees, etc), I'm wondering if its even worth starting a Deathrattle army at all at this point? I was considering to explore and start collecting Death the coming months, but everything seems quite underwhelming? Or am I missing something?

Only you can answer this question... but what is your goal?

Competitive?

Narrative?

Building models and armies that you look at and go "dang ... now that's cool..."?

If you're interested in Death, go for it! Make yourself an army of your choosing.

I have my eye on both of the Death start collecting boxes. And making them up as their alternate content. (After a read through of the first half of the Hunt for Nagash series I'm seriously considering making a Mannfred, Mortarch of Night and Coven Throne combo, oh yeah...)

[Kugane]

8 hours ago, Sception said:

I honestly don't think competitive Age of Sigmar is worth thinking about, much less spending money on, until after we see how the general's handbook 2 shakes out.  Maybe we'll be nerfed to hell.  Maybe other things will be nerfed worse.  Maybe there will be a bunch of changes to the matched play rules making them more like LotR (max percentage of models with shooting attacks) or 40k 8th edition (no shooting characters unless they're the closest enemy or have 10+ wounds - which would be huge for settra - or no shooting at engaged enemies or by engaged units which would be huge for us in general).  Or maybe it will add alliance level spell lores the way GHI added alliance level items and command traits, which would be huge for Arkhan and Nagash.  Or maybe it will be the same as it is now, only our handful of good (if admittedly underpriced under the previous book) units being nerfed, and Death just won't be played for a while.

Who knows?  IMO, there's just too much up in the air to get worked up about the game on the competitive level.  That said, if you play casual there's plenty of reason to get into Deathrattle.  IMO they're the best models in faction, the infantry is pretty good so you can run an army that feels like an army, and they're the most likely to get new stuff this year, whether in terms of models or battle tomes.

I personally kind of expected the GHBII to be out already, but I guess it won't be long until it is. The LotR addition was good, I liked that you could have ~33% shooting units.

But yeah, without the GHBII being released, its not worth to sit and wait to see what'll happen. I may just casually play death for the time being and pick up cheap alternative models such as a skeleton horde from mantic games, by the time I'm doing painting those the GHBII is probably out already haha.

 

8 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

Only you can answer this question... but what is your goal?

Competitive?

Narrative?

Building models and armies that you look at and go "dang ... now that's cool..."?

If you're interested in Death, go for it! Make yourself an army of your choosing.

I have my eye on both of the Death start collecting boxes. And making them up as their alternate content. (After a read through of the first half of the Hunt for Nagash series I'm seriously considering making a Mannfred, Mortarch of Night and Coven Throne combo, oh yeah...)
 

 

I also have my eyes on the start collecting boxes. They seem quite good value. The skeletons are a tad bit overpriced in my opinion though ~20 euro for 10 skeletons while needing 40~80 is quite costly, so may go the alternate models way for those units. I think its always possible to magnetize Mannfred so you can switch him out for other units?

[TheOtherJosh]

... I think its always possible to magnetize Mannfred so you can switch him out for other units?

With enough ingenuity ... you can magnetize (almost) any model.

[Squirrelmaster]

I would've thought GW would want to avoid releasing AoS GHII and 40K 8th ed around the same time, it seems to me that would hurt sales overall.

So, they'll probably wait for the 40K hype to die down before they start building hype for the GHII release.

[Kugane]

55 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said:

I would've thought GW would want to avoid releasing AoS GHII and 40K 8th ed around the same time, it seems to me that would hurt sales overall.

So, they'll probably wait for the 40K hype to die down before they start building hype for the GHII release.

I was thinking the same. But overal it seems there are far more 40k updates and releases in comparison to Age of Sigmar regardless lately, so they can't keep on delaying stuff, that may cost them customers in the long run.

 

1 hour ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

With enough ingenuity ... you can magnetize (almost) any model.

 

Indeed XP. I personally kind of like the neferata model as well. I wonder if a list with neferata or mannfred as the center piece would work... I would love to include some Morghast Archai, Dire Wolves and Zombies as well, but I cannot find any formations with zombies or direwolves in it.

[Lazyfimfim]

I'm considering in building a bonesplitterz army.
They'll be surely nerf in GHB2 but hey, naked screaming orcs do have something [emoji1]

Just do what you want, you'll fix your list if you have to.

Envoyé de mon EVA-L09 en utilisant Tapatalk

[Kugane]

10 minutes ago, Lazyfimfim said:

I'm considering in building a bonesplitterz army.
They'll be surely nerf in GHB2 but hey, naked screaming orcs do have something

Just do what you want, you'll fix your list if you have to.

Envoyé de mon EVA-L09 en utilisant Tapatalk
 

Now just find a list that would work :P, so I know what to purchase

[TheOtherJosh]

Now just find a list that would work , so I know what to purchase

Make your own fate. Choose a path. Don't be a follower. Be a leader. Make your own list. Take the path less trod.

Choose what you think looks awesome on the table.

Follow the Valkyrie Code: Live Fast, fight well. And have a Beautiful ending.

(Btw: Your skeletons might have an issue with speed ...)

[lare2]

My 2 pence... we have no idea what will be added with a GHB2 and/or a new Death battletome. I've started to focus less on competitive lists these days and more just on what I think looks and plays cool, Deathrattle included. Really liking Legion of Death, Arkhan, and a necromancer at the minute and then summoning the rest as and when needed.    

[Mikester1487]

Deathrattle is surprisingly resilient on the table and fun to play in my opinion.  Will it trounce the top netlists? Eh probably not, but it's worth noting everyone that played against the deathrattle army my partner had at adepticon were surprised that the units would just not die.

[Kugane]

5 hours ago, lare2 said:

My 2 pence... we have no idea what will be added with a GHB2 and/or a new Death battletome. I've started to focus less on competitive lists these days and more just on what I think looks and plays cool, Deathrattle included. Really liking Legion of Death, Arkhan, and a necromancer at the minute and then summoning the rest as and when needed.    

Have you given black knights a shot as a main unit rather than skeletons? I'm kind of wondering to centre a death rattle army around them. I just dont know if they are as resilient as those 40 piece skeleton blocks I keep seeing people include a lot.

4 hours ago, Mikester1487 said:

Deathrattle is surprisingly resilient on the table and fun to play in my opinion.  Will it trounce the top netlists? Eh probably not, but it's worth noting everyone that played against the deathrattle army my partner had at adepticon were surprised that the units would just not die.

Thats great to hear :), I went ahead and purchased some boxes today and will start to build and paint them soon. To be honest, I think with all the netlists out there, the meta keeps changing so rapidly anyways from what I've seen. So I think I'ma stop bothering to follow Meta trends altogether. Does your friend play a skeleton horde army? Or a more specialized one?

[Andreas]

I will try this list at the 6-nations team tournament this weekend. Will be interesting to see how it will compete against really strong lists and players. I believe it's quite strong (ie win some games in that enviroment).

1    Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon - General - Ruler of the Night - Cursed Book    440
1    Cairn Wraith    60
1    Wight King with Black Axe - Cursed Book    120
40    Skeleton Warriors    320
40    Skeleton Warriors    320
10    Skeleton Warriors    80
5    Grave Guard    80
5    Black Knights    120
-    Legion of Death    60
1    Mourngul    400

[Vaux]

Hm is there a reason why you dont have a Necromancer in your list? I mean the "Danse Macabre" spell is awesome for the large skeleton blocks.

[Andreas]

Points ?

But to be honest, I am not planning to kill the opponent. If the first 120 attacks can do something I am happy with that.

[TheOtherJosh]

If you're doing points... then having points set aside for reinforcements isn't a bad tactic.

[Andreas]

29 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

If you're doing points... then having points set aside for reinforcements isn't a bad tactic.

I agree I need more points.

Joke aside, both necromancer and reinforcement points would make the list stronger. I just dont know what to take out. I need the movement that the legion gives. I kind of need the morngul and the VLoZD. The cairn wrait I dont need until i need him and then the VLoZD is dead and he can't be summoned.

I am not saying this is the best death list you can build but I do think it's quite tweaked for what it does. Difficult to improve it without changing the idea of the list.... -> get to the objectives quickly and die slowly. ?

[swarmofseals]

2 hours ago, Andreas said:

I will try this list at the 6-nations team tournament this weekend. Will be interesting to see how it will compete against really strong lists and players. I believe it's quite strong (ie win some games in that enviroment).

1    Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon - General - Ruler of the Night - Cursed Book    440
1    Cairn Wraith    60
1    Wight King with Black Axe - Cursed Book    120
40    Skeleton Warriors    320
40    Skeleton Warriors    320
10    Skeleton Warriors    80
5    Grave Guard    80
5    Black Knights    120
-    Legion of Death    60
1    Mourngul    400

Have you considered making one of your skeleton champions the general instead of the VLoZD? Keeping Ruler of the Night up just seems so important, and even though the VLoZD is tough he's still plenty snipeable. You lose the command ability, which is pretty painful, but I think you may end up wanting to use inspiring presence more often than you'd think. 

[swarmofseals]

On 6/11/2017 at 3:06 AM, Kugane said:

The skeletons are a tad bit overpriced 

Yeah, if you are buying them at full retail it's pretty painful. You can get them a lot cheaper secondhand though, especially if you aren't picky about getting the most recent sculpts. 

 

As to the OP's question, yes I think Deathrattle is still worthwhile. We frankly don't know what the rest of the GHB2 will do aside from nerfing some of the TK stuff. Even with the nerfs I think it's plausible that some of the TK units will be worth taking, especially if you aren't competing at the absolute most competitive level. I actually will plan to play Settra quite a bit more now that he is costed higher and isn't just obviously hands down OP. Same goes for Necropolis Knights -- I will feel a lot less bad running these in casual games. 

Skeleton Warriors are quite strong as long as you are willing to go high model count. I'm not a fan of Black Knights or Grave Guard, but for all we know they could be getting a points decrease in the GHB. Death will also benefit greatly if there are improvements to summoning or nerfs to shooting in any capacity, both of which are at least moderately likely. 

Basically, I think we need to wait and see.

[Andreas]

11 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Have you considered making one of your skeleton champions the general instead of the VLoZD? Keeping Ruler of the Night up just seems so important, and even though the VLoZD is tough he's still plenty snipeable. You lose the command ability, which is pretty painful, but I think you may end up wanting to use inspiring presence more often than you'd think. 

I agree that IP and ruler of the night i very important for the list. I choce against it in the end because the VLOZD is quite survivable and also I rather want them at shoot him than the skeletons in most scenarios

[lare2]

11 hours ago, Kugane said:

Have you given black knights a shot as a main unit rather than skeletons? I'm kind of wondering to centre a death rattle army around them. I just dont know if they are as resilient as those 40 piece skeleton blocks I keep seeing people include a lot. 

I haven't mate. That would mean I'd have to go full Deathrattle and I like playing Arkhan (for summoning and Curse of Years)  or a VLZD (for Red Fury and Cloak of Mist and Shadows, which pretty much lets you autodelete any opposing unit of your choice if you get 1st turn!) too much as the general.

Have been toying with the idea of running skelly horsemen as battleline. People always seem surprised by a quick Death army. 

[Mikester1487]

18 hours ago, Kugane said:

Have you given black knights a shot as a main unit rather than skeletons? I'm kind of wondering to centre a death rattle army around them. I just dont know if they are as resilient as those 40 piece skeleton blocks I keep seeing people include a lot.

Thats great to hear :), I went ahead and purchased some boxes today and will start to build and paint them soon. To be honest, I think with all the netlists out there, the meta keeps changing so rapidly anyways from what I've seen. So I think I'ma stop bothering to follow Meta trends altogether. Does your friend play a skeleton horde army? Or a more specialized one?

Full skeleton horde with 2 blocks of 20 skeletons holding spears, a block of 20 graveguard with great weapons, and a wight king as the general. The only outside units were necromancers to buff and put wounds on heroes.  She considered black knights but preferred having more bodies on the table.  The knights are best for a supporting role in my opinion, but it would be cool to see multiple units of them on the table.

[Kosmion]

On 2017-06-11 at 0:28 AM, Kugane said:

With pieces like Settra being most likely nerfed in GHBII, and added to that the ongoing rise of filth lists (shooty glass cannon builds, tanky trees, etc), I'm wondering if its even worth starting a Deathrattle army at all at this point? I was considering to explore and start collecting Death the coming months, but everything seems quite underwhelming? Or am I missing something?

I just started a deathrattle army, and im having a blast! Its not very competetive ofc, but its great fun to stack those ward saves. I wouldnt doubt that they will get some form of release like a battletome or something that makes them more playable fairly soon. So as an investment? Sure theyre prob worth it!

[Kugane]

23 hours ago, lare2 said:

I haven't mate. That would mean I'd have to go full Deathrattle and I like playing Arkhan (for summoning and Curse of Years)  or a VLZD (for Red Fury and Cloak of Mist and Shadows, which pretty much lets you autodelete any opposing unit of your choice if you get 1st turn!) too much as the general.

Have been toying with the idea of running skelly horsemen as battleline. People always seem surprised by a quick Death army. 

I see! I have a zombie dragon sprue on the way, so I'll be assembling the VLoZD soon for that reason then :). I may pick up the Skeleton horde box today. I was thinking to get a nefarata, but I'll probably just magnetize the rider so i can switch them out easily.