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45 Lord Celestant

About Vextol

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  1. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    I know a lot of people here seem to be of this mentality. It's difficult for me because I've never experienced this. Must just be my area, but everyone I've ever encountered is in it for the competitive matched play. I was hoping that this list could help ease the need to counter everything. If you critically miss something and then get double turned, you have some chance to recover. Also, I was hoping this list could balance some of the "super" armies. If your whole army is nothing but crazy long range high damage or super shielding, well, here: have another shield because who cares if your 1+ goes to a 0+ or lose six inches from your range because your army is one dimensional and taking advantage of an unbalanced aspect of the game. If you add these elements that help a little or hinder one dimensionality, it could help diversify the armies and maybe get less used units onto the field. Anyway, that was my goal.
  2. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    Well, as I've said before, I'm not up for discussing the double turn. Everyone has their opinion. I think it's both important and unbalanced. This post was supposed to be a discussion about how to both keep it, and make it feel less detrimental.
  3. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    Well...engine of the gods could actually let you take 4 turns back to back. I built an entire army once to try to pull it off. It was only a 5% chance, but it was so ridiculous
  4. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    Yeah, but I was thinking for myself. You should be ready when the time comes so you don't have to spend a million hours deciding. I play sigmar around three times a week from like 9-10:30 with my neighbor. We never have a hard time finishing a game but we both make decisions pretty quickly.
  5. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    I don't want to remove the double turn though. I think it's cool and really important. I agree that it is really boring though first turn. Played with a group of textbook over thinkers once, played for 5 hours, made it through two turns and I moved 5 inches forwards. So yeah, I feel that issue. In my case, that's not really going to get fixed with or without double turn.
  6. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    I think melee armies need the double turn a lot. It's very hard to cover ground or recover from a failed charge if you don't get the double turn. The opposition knows exactly who to kill if you teleport 9 inches away and don't make your charge! But it does definitely help shooting and hero armies. Again, I'm not saying we remove the double turn or change anything about the way the game works except offering a variable advantage to the second player to reduce the effects (not remove, just reduce) of the double turn and give them an opportunity to MAYBE undo it if the opposition agrees.
  7. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    Oh yeah, I agree, certain situations would (should) affect different armies differently. The plus 1 save to a unit against 1+ stormcasts is rough, but 1+ stormcasts are already almost unbeatable. You need a -2 rend to even have a chance of hurting them without good mortal output. And a lot of armies struggle to have +1 save so maybe you will take it if offered. I bet some khorne armies would like that +1 save! And you are right again about the shooting armies. Probably would give you the -1 to movement because it most impacts you without impacting them. However, if you keep it, now its harder for them to get away. That's where I thought it would be fun. Now you have strategy in the actual turn order itself instead of just luck.
  8. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    I will check how much time it adds. I would think it shouldn't add much more than 5 minutes or so. Definitely something to keep an eye on though. The triumph table was the thing I was trying to think of before. I still don't see how it makes some builds way stronger. I'd like an example, not from a dismissive standpoint, I just want to modify something glaring that I'm missing. I only play matched. I feel that in open play and narrative play the game is more forgiving and lighthearted so the double turn is not as much of an issue.
  9. I'm trying to find a good way to make clouds or steam/smoke. I've seen people use cotton and such but mine always look like models with cotton stuck to them. Does anyone have any alternatives they use to make good looking clouds, fog or smoke? I actually looked into getting of those little vaporizers for e-cigarettes and mounting it under my ironclad but it seemed like a lot more work with a high chance of failure.
  10. Age of Sigmar "2nd edition"

    That's true. Most of the complaints come from things with 24 inch ranges. Unfortunately, some of the 24 inch range guys can't hold up AT ALL in melee, so if shooting gets a knock, these guys really take a hit. They're so expensive and fragile though! 5 wounds for a million points no mortal saves. They're just cute little guys.
  11. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    It is more complex than roll off for sure. But, we could also say "At the beginning of the game, roll two dice. Highest wins." Obviously I'm exaggerating, but I don't agree with the idea that we've "maxed out" on complexity. I think the game is close, but certainly not maxed. I guess if people could elaborate on where it's overly complex that would help. I see it like the scenery table. No one thinks that's complex. Or the "mystic shield/arcane bolt table". This is the rule, boiled down to its most simple form: "If you lose initiative but you still want it, you can offer your opponent a temporary ability. If they pass, you get the ability instead."
  12. Age of Sigmar "2nd edition"

    I don't think shooting is overpowered. I think melee is either underpowered, or the double turn amplifies shooting threat. If you go twice, you can effictively negate all of the first players movement. It's obvious that you need at least 2 turns to get to the shooters with melee guys (unless you're crazy fast or teleporty/lucky 9 roller) so if they go twice, they can back up to turn one positions again. Now, melee is back at square 1. You have the option of hoping for the double turn yourself (note that you've been shot twice) or the ranged guys will just keep you at a distance forever until you're dead. Edit: To slow. My problem with point 4 is the same, in melee the double turn is almost essential to get your slow guys into combat. Ranged guys can always get away. If you removed the double turn all together, I think you'd need to half ranged movement if they wanted to shoot or something like that.
  13. Age of Sigmar "2nd edition"

    Well, nurgle and death are the most recent...technically . Death especially has a good bit of anti shooting (like hit penalties in your own zone, artifacts and such) . I know they are notoriously resilient but still. Stormcast has a bunch of anti...well..damage. Shooting and otherwise. But mirror shield is very overused along with tempest. Kharadrons are that army everyone thinks over shoots, but I play them and I get wrecked by newer armies, especially shooting stormcast lists. Khorne doesn't really have that much anti shooting. But that's several tomes back now. I think there is evidence for some increase of "in the shooting phase" type protective abilities. This is kind of what lead me to think that instead of changing shooting, GW will just make changes to the factions to help deal with it instead.
  14. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    I guess. I always hated being 'toned down to' though. Made me feel bad. And I've played sigmar a good bit and the double bothers me every time, regardless of army equality. That may just be me and everyone I know. I don't think it should be ignored as a "that's just the way it is so get used to it" because, from my experience, most people don't like that. But again, in NO WAY is this saying to get rid of the double turn. I'm worried no one is actually reading the idea I don't want to get rid of the double turn. I'd be very against that.
  15. Double Turn Overhaul Suggestion

    Right, I agree with a lot of that and I'm a big proponent against house rules (believe it or not). But if you don't want stormcast to have +1 to save on a unit, don't offer it to them! And if they offer it to you so you don't get the double turn, maybe take it. It just adds an element of strategy to a section of the game with, and this can't be argued, no strategy. Rolling two dice has no strategy. And everything else associated with the strategy of prepping for the double turn, hoping for it, stopping them from getting it, that's all still there. The actual turn taking doesn't change at all.